Native American Church

[boomer2]

That paper from that site will not holdup in court.

Be realistic.  playing a game to get a certificate off of the internet does not make you a member of the Native American Church.  or give you the legal right to consume peyote.  It certainly does not legitimize you in the eyes of the law or in the eyes of the peyotists whose religion whom you would be intruding on under false pretenses.

boomer

Being dist honest does not do the peyote the justice for which is it there for.

[laughingwillow]

Congrats, Teo.

It appears that you have it all figured out....  :cool2

lw

[Anonymous]

Shoot, I was I had it all figured out... I don't think I've got a thing figured out!

Join Peyoteway.org y'all!

Just email the lady at Peyote Way Church of God and tell her you want to become a member!

Then send a letter!

You'll receive a certificate stating that you are a "bona-fide" religous user of Lophophora williamsii "Peyote" and that your cultivation and use of "Peyote" is an inseperable part of your spiritual practices.

http://www.peyoteway.org/faq.htm

http://www.peyoteway.org/Contact%20us.htm

That paper from that site will not holdup in court.

Actually some members have already been to court and due to their memebership in the church and status as "bona-fide" religous users of Peyote didn't get in one bit of trouble.

Be realistic. playing a game to get a certificate off of the internet does not make you a member of the Native American Church. or give you the legal right to consume peyote. It certainly does not legitimize you in the eyes of the law or in the eyes of the peyotists whose religion whom you would be intruding on under false pretenses.

It's not a game. This is my religon and my church. The Peyotist at Peyote Way Chruch are very nice people, and I am a member of their church. It does give you excemption from the Peyote laws in 5 states, however, I believe if you were a member of the church and caught in a state which does not protect non-native users, it would be thrown out in court and likely get the laws in that state changed. I donno what the whole thing about "intruding on under false pretenses" means, but I won't comment. I'm a serious spiritual user of Peyote (Even tho I've not eaten it yet and probably won't for some time) and a serious member of the Peyote Way Church of God.

"As long as the Blessed Sacrament is scarce (endangered) it is more holy to cultivate it, than it is to consume it".

[senorsalvia]

Far be it for me to say I have any resoned insights into the way the law would look at things, but I am leaning toward the belief that since the Bronfman - Aya case, that the Guv might just not be willing to bother with a prosecution case if the practitioner was in fact a registered member of a recognized 'religious entheo church'...  As far as figuring out someones 'bona fides',,,not for me to say........

[Anonymous]

Exactly!

If you believe your gonna get in trouble for Peyote when your a member of a legit Peyote church, then you just haven't read up on the history of the cases!

They don't wanna fuck with it, cause if they do... and I win... then it's like everybody in my state knows all they have to do is join they church and they can have all the peyote they want!

The relgious users ALWAYS win the cases too!

[Amomynous]

It's not a game. This is my religon and my church. The Peyotist at Peyote Way Chruch are very nice people, and I am a member of their church. It does give you excemption from the Peyote laws in 5 states, however, I believe if you were a member of the church and caught in a state which does not protect non-native users, it would be thrown out in court and likely get the laws in that state changed. I donno what the whole thing about "intruding on under false pretenses" means, but I won't comment. I'm a serious spiritual user of Peyote (Even tho I've not eaten it yet and probably won't for some time) and a serious member of the Peyote Way Church of God.

I'm not sure what that means. I don't see how you can be a serious, religious user of peyote until you're, well, a user of peyote.

And I believe that "under false pretenses" means that you're more interested in the sacrament than the religion -- a distinction that is meaningless to the serious peyotist, as the sacrament is inextricably tied to the religion. In your case, there seems little "religion" there, in any formal sense.

(Also, you said in another post that the religious users always win. That is seriously ignoring current case law. That also presupposes that you would be considered "serious" in the eyes of the law, which is seriously doubtful. There are criteria that the courts use to determine if something is a serious religion, and you don't appear to meet many, if any, of those criteria. I think I've posted the criteria here a few years ago (this came from a friend who has established a bone-fide, entheogen-using religion):

a A distinct legal existence
b A recognized creed and form of worship
c A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
d A formal code of doctrine and discipline        
e A distinct religious history
f A membership not associated with any other church or denomination
g An organization of ordained ministers
h Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
i A literature of its own
j Established places of worship
k Regular congregations
l Regular religious services
m Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young
n Schools for the preparation of its ministers.

Now, you can argue 'till the cows come home that this list isn't "right" and that a solitary drug user should be able to qualify for protected use as much as the member of an established congregation, but the above is the current situation, like it or not. I'm not saying that every religion must meet at 14 criteria, but this is the playing field. To date, a religious exemption to the Controlled Substances Act has never been granted to someone who didn't belong to an established religion (i.e., one that met many of the above criteria).  

Which of the criteria above does your new-found religion meet?)

And just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?

[Anonymous]

Do you know anything about the Peyote Way Church of God?

Please research them.

And just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?

What drug use do you mean? Do these religons not use entheogen plant drugs?

I personally am agaist drug use such as heroin, meth, cocaine, etc.

[Amomynous]

And just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?

What drug use do you mean? Do these religons not use entheogen plant drugs?

No, they don't. The NAC uses peyote as a sacrament. The Santo Daime uses daime. But they don't use entheogen plant drugs.  And that's one reason they shouldn't be seen as a way of getting entheogenic drugs: they don't use them.

This may be a little hard to understand, but consider this: The NAC uses peyote, not cacti like San Pedro (which contains the same alkaloids). Until one fundamentally understands (and feels) this, I don't see how one can consider one's self a serious adherent of the religion.

[Anonymous]

I think thats a bullshit remark!

These religions DO use entheogenic plant drugs!

And that's one reason they shouldn't be seen as a way of getting entheogenic drugs: they don't use them.

Did you miss when I said "I've never taken Peyote"? I've never taken it because I respect it. Obvisouly I'm not using this to trip Peyote... if I was, wouldn't I be eating it?

I have never done true Ayahuasca ethier.

[Amomynous]

I think thats a bullshit remark!

These religions DO use entheogenic plant drugs!

Well, you're free to have that opinion, but keep in mind that what you're taking exception to isn't my bullshit -- it is the belief of the religions themselves. You're taking exception to their fundamental belief.  :e_biggrin:

So you don't meet with them, worship with them, partake of their sacrament, or share their fundamental beliefs. Forgive me if I'm having trouble grokking in just what way you're a member of the religion.

Oh, that's right. You have a piece of paper.

[Anonymous]

So you don't meet with them, worship with them, partake of their sacrament, or share their fundamental beliefs.

Who said that? I do all those things. I just haven't eaten Peyote yet. I'd rather see the Peyote happy and growing then have it sitting in my stomach!

[laughingwillow]

Why would I want to pay a donation to take a spirit walk when I can do it on my own any day for free?

lw

[laughingwillow]

Oh, I forgot....... You got a piece of paper with your spirit walk.  :smoke2:

Btw, I have nothing against the Peyote Way folks. Leonard used to post here once in awhile.

lw

[laughingwillow]

I'm not sure if you have seen this article, but it's a great read.

The quote below highlights a commonality found in various psychedelic practices.

By ingesting an active sacrament, a person enters the "adult" world of spirituality and confronts some realities of the human condition ignored in religions centered around symbolic sacraments. So, in this context, users of symbolic sacraments might be viewed as children imitating  adult behavior.

My personal experience shares many similarities with the description below.

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg29.htm

........ The Peyote road is the path chosen by members of the church. In the
imagery of some Peyotists, two roads diverge at a junction. The profane
road, paved and wide, with its worldly passions and temptations, is
considered to be an unholy road which leads to trouble. The alternative
is the Peyote road, a narrow unpaved path surrounded by a wilderness of
pristine beauty. All Peyotists travel this way, but each must journey
alone, for it is the road of one's own life and wisdom. In the Christian
sense, it is the road to salvation. Ethically, it is a path of sobriety
(a major step for most Indians), industry, care of the family, and
brotherly love. Its symbol is a narrow groove on top of a crescent-
shaped earthen altar that encircles the west end of the fireplace.
Rather than a straight and narrow path, it is a curved path all the way,
but the curve on the crescent altar is constant, never-varying, and so
in a sense straight. The road has not been easy for me, nor was it meant
to be. Peyotists say that up to the mid-mark of human life the Peyote
road is uphill. This is indicated by the earthen altar, which slopes up
to the center of the crescent, where the Peyote chief which is a
specially shaped Peyote plant placed on the altar by the leader of the
ceremony is set. To reach the downhill side of the Peyote chief one has
to go through (accept) Peyote, for it is considered impossible to go
around or over the sacred plant placed on top of the altar. The downhill
road symbolizes the latter half of one's life, the easier half.

Those early years of my uphill journey were difficult because of my
preoccupation with death. This morbid obsession began when I attended my
third Peyote meeting. Several people present were ill, and I feared the
spread of disease by the communal sharing of the spoon to eat Peyote and
the cup to drink Peyote tea. Two voices within me began to talk about my
death, one stressing its reality and the other constantly agreeing; the
voice-exchange continued until my awareness of death became intense. I
had been asleep to my death for thirty-one years; it now became an
intimate reality. At a meeting that I attended, a wise elderly Peyotist
said, "You can see yourself in this fireplace; you can see what kind of
man you are. If you accept what you see, you will be all right and stay
in this religion; if you don't accept what you see, you will never come
back. " More than one man attending a meeting has thought himself
attending his own funeral; he believed that he saw his own body being
brought into the tipi instead of the morning foodthe church became for
him a funeral parlor. After such an experience, he may or may not want
to return to the Peyote religion. That night I arrived at the junction
and chose the Peyote road, which included the risk of sickness and the
anguish of mental torment. Yet, in the sense that "many are called, but
few are chosen," Peyotists say that "Peyote chooses you, you don't
choose it."

After that traumatic night I was aware of death every day for a period
of about 3 years. It was not an absorbing fixation, but it was a daily
reminder, my Dark Night of the Soul. I was often awakened to the image
of a black whiplash across my back and the words resounding in my ears:
"You are some day going to die." At a Peyote meeting, when I told the
members of my concern about death, one of the leaders stood up and said
that I was off to a good beginning in the Peyote way. During a meeting 3
years later I simply became aware that it was useless worrying about the
inevitable. To be uneasy is the original derivation of the word disease;
my anxiety and worry (uncertainty) about my certain death was a disease.
Perhaps there is in each of us a level where the knowledge of our own
death is so strange that it comes as a shock........

And then there is this.....

I was blown away upon discovering the passage below. The story related is clearly a variation of the folk song "The Monkey and the Engineer." The Grateful Dead played that tune three or four times over the course of their career. I was lucky enough to catch one of them and it was a most profound experience in my psychedelic upbringing..  

.............. Often their humorous stories have a sober message; an example is the
tale of the "monkey in the fireplace," which warns against treating the
ceremony as play. The story is as follows: "No monkey business allowed
in this fireplace, but everything is in this fireplace, so the monkey
must be in there too. This engineer on the railroad had a monkey who
watched everything he did. The engineer stopped the train and went in
the depot to get a cup of coffee. When he heard the toot-toot outside,
he ran out and saw the monkey taking this train down the track. Hey,
this monkey was really having fun. He was driving the train just like a
man. He was really driving that train fast. He missed the curve and the
train went off the track, but the monkey, he jumped out of the window
and grabbed hold of a tree and was saved. He watched the train go into
the ditch."

We both laughed; then he became serious and said: "But all the people
and children on the train were killed. That's the way the monkey is: if
the man don't watch close, he will miss the curve; the monkey, he's a
monkey." Then this Indian Peyotist slowly pointed to the fireplace and
said: "That monkey will kill you if you don't watch him; no monkey
business allowed in this fireplace." Symbolically, this story indicates
that if you are careless on the curve of the Peyote road, you will fall
from the altar and burn up in the fireplace......

The explanation above gives the meaning of the parable on one level, but I believe there are more than one levels explored. For example, the Dead have always used images of the steam locomotive rolling down the tracks in their songs. Their group zeitgeist has many similarities with the image of a train being pulled by a locomotive engine. And I think that image is appropriate for the action at hand...

lw

[senorsalvia]

I also went through an intense awareness of death / contemplation of mortality issues during my psychedelic sojourn..  I was in the military (not an especially good state to be in for ones psyche imho) I was stationed in a region where we did not have acess to Hoffmans' medicine.  Senor perservered and became the proud recipient of some airmailed California manna...  I was deep into the session, when I looked out a second story window and noticed a group of 4-5 guys standing around a small boulder out on the ground.. I felt compelled to go be with them.. I left the building and began approaching them..  I knew a couple of the fellows, and so I thought maybe they were standing around talking and sharing a pipe..  As I drew nearer, an intense and ominous feeling began filling me..  I sensed a deep and profound dread..  The closer I came to the group, the more uncomfortable I became..  My 'observer self' was on high alert, telling me I was about to be shocked...  I was in a state of high anxiety though determined to 'find the answer'...  When I stepped into the cicle of guys, I was shot through with the realiziation that I was going to witness my own demise;  that I was going to see that the fellows were circling around my inert body and that they had come upon me after I had OD'ed from my excessive 'H' habit....  I looked downward, toward the small boulder, expecting to find 'the doorway/my dead body/the shaft of white light/whatever!!  I was filled with trepidation and yet determined to face the consequence of my own chosen path....  "Course, all that happened was a guy turned to me and nodded whilst handing me the pipe they were sharing..  There was nothing on the ground except that couple hundred lb boulder...  I politely puffed silently and then returned to the barracks...  It took me several days to acknowledge that I had been shown that I was on a destructive path with the 'H', and that I needed to address the issue, which I did do, in short oreder....  The lesson I learned was that although we might consider ourselves cavalier warriors;  it takes a sense of acute and purposeful awareness of our treading on 'the path'...  Thats where the learning comes from...  Or, at least that's how it was for me......sal