Valley of Shadows

[CJ]

A good trip for me is one I enjoy ,and /or ,get something out of. In fact,I fully agree with Dendro,that you do not even have to be on 'anything' to experience The Light. Hard to explain...a state of mind where you sense a nearness, or merging...I used to do it purly with music.Still do occassionaly...

      But I don`t have to 'learn' something or anything silly like that. Being  in a state of Grace is enough,and something is on some level , 'learning'

I`ve had over the years,a few bad trips. One was stupidity ( very early in the game)

      Some did have something to do with set and setting,was not confortable where I was.

     And one was pure fear. The Fear. And right in the middle of feeling this way, I`m playng Deus Ex,and an evil(at that point)artificial intelligence is informing the protagonist of the game that it had just dissected one of his friends, and put her remains into cryo storage . Hit me wrong, jus the tone of it.

     Walked it off and 30 minutes later I was sitting and talking to my straight unsuspecting neigbhor,`cross the street. A particular former 'ally'and I have parted company, Other things are honest to me,even if things arn`t going well,or there is something on my mind. But I grew tired of a state of exaggeration,that later I recgnized as just constantly feeling threatened. No need for that,the truth is bad/good enough.

[typonaut]

Good analogy with the mountain climbing. Backpack heavy, feet  hurt, straps chafing, puffing up hill, waving off clouds of mosquitoes, hungry, thirsty, blistered, happy.

Returning home, you are so homesick for where you have just been, memories of the air, smell of decomposed granite, views that go straight to your heart, all so vivid, present less intense.

An ordeal, a good trip.

[Susanoo no Mikoto]

Furthermore, attempts to maintain a positive control of the experience, in this model, would ultimately be counter-productive to progressing along the entheogenic path.

in my mind, its like trying to control a dream....the message or lesson would be completely lost....

you friend's experience rings in my head as a spirit or entity that entered while he was vulnerable...

[TooStonedToType]

I was skimming through DMT: The Spirit Molecule again and noticed a couple of passages.

Dr. Strassman mentions that in a safe and supportive environment people can use DMT to achieve "absolute loss of control."  Dr. Strassman discusses several times "psychedelic-assisted therapy" involving "structured voluntary traumatic experience."  The purpose being to remember and to rid oneself of past emotional trauma.  Page 171 describes how the elves helped a patient release her trauma from being raped. "I feel like I have a new body."

Interesting reading.

[Veracohr]

'Good' and 'bad' trip are pretty obviously relating to psychedelic use with no other purpose than to have a good time. Therefore, the fear and anxiety of a 'bad' trip is what makes it bad, and the absence of those emotions, and/or the inclusion of euphoria or other good emotions, makes a 'good' trip.

Perhaps these terms aren't accurate when referring to a trip intended for something more intellectual than fun, but unfortunately they have the weight of time behind them to continue their usage.

If you don't like the implication of "good trip" or "bad trip", don't use it. Change starts with you! (cue G.I. Joe music).

It is my hypothesis that entheogenic experiences commonly deemed bad are vital to personal growth.

I think 'difficult' experiences (as termed in above posts) definitely have the potential for personal growth, but not every one is integrated. It probably depends on the person's individual psyche (whether they are apt to integrate negative experiences while sober, or repress them) and perhaps also there's an element of chance.