Show Me State-Shows Idiocy

[Anonymous]

Rep Bringer of Missouri has just introduced a bill to put Salvia into SCHEDULE-1!!!!!!  in his sorry-ass state..........  Now, I don't really follow the nuances of the scheduling process and how it relates on a state to state basis, but Jeez folks, this seems terrible....  I wonder how they are going to justify such an action?   Well, I guess I may know how....  Rep Bringer will merely throw out such a bill, looking for all the world as a fine protector of health, and a soldier in the W.O.D. and hope the hyperbole will carry the day among his sheeple..........   I found this news on the Yahoo site SalviaD........  It was sent by Daniel Seibert :cry:  :cry: --- Damnit, and I was having such a nice day----------  senorsal----   BTW, do we have any peeps from Missouri aboard these days?

[senorsalvia]

I signed in and all, but just noticed I was listed in the above posting as guest.....'Tis senorsal, bithching about the decline of entheo freedom :wink: -------------

[senorsalvia]

I Googled rep bringer, and found alot that was both surprising as well as troubling.....   First off, Rep Bringer is a female, and,,,a democrat.  Secondly, she has a history of submitting and sponsoring bills that take a healthy swipe at freedom in general.  For instance..  She recently put out a bill that would lenghten the time an uncharged person may be held behind bars without being charged or without a warrant having been issued...  Yeah, it only adds 4 more hours to the time, but still.....  She has also floated a bill calling for people that are busted within the dreaded "school distance" to have to serve all their time without hope of parole or probation........   Won't some of the peeps send her an e-mail decying her folly-----------  She sounds and acts like a reactionary Republican IMHO----------  Remember folks, Missouri is where they already have the city-wide ban of Salvia in St Peters---------  Time to circle up the wagons folks--------- :cry: ----------  senorsal

[Amomynous]

I Googled rep bringer, and found alot that was both surprising as well as troubling.....   First off, Rep Bringer is a female, and,,,a democrat.

What's surprising about either of those facts? Bacca -- the guy who tried to get it scheduled federally was a dem, as were some of the state representatives who tried to get it outlawed in Oregon. As for women, don't forget that prohibition was largely a female-backed movement (and in fact, prohibition was very strongly linked to the suffragettes).

If I may wax cynical (and this isn't directed at you): what's surprising is that people ignore the plain facts and think that the democrats support cognitive liberty, just 'cause they tend to be a little more liberal about medical MJ. In general, they're  more than a little intrusive as of late when it comes the Salvia and the like.

[X. Torris]

Anyone's who's done any amount of research should know that Republicans and Democrats in elected positions tend to be profoundly against the easing or cessation of the War on Some Drugs.  Only the fringes of either parties (i.e. libertarian Republicans, or some more (truly)liberal factions of the Democrats) deviate from this rule-of-thumb.

Democrat does not necessarily equal freedom-friendly, folks.  But nor should you completely abandon any course of influence on your elected officials, no matter how minute the effect.  Fact is, as much as we might hope to the contrary, the mainstream of the mainstream parties aren't going anywhere---- you might as well do your best to show them why they're wrong....

[freeseeker]

I consider the democrats and republicans to be two sides of the same, tired coin.  None of them can be trusted to do anything but protect their own interests and they do so on the taxpayers dime.  These folks are in politics as a career and if they did something as radical as eschewing the war on drugs, they could kiss their comfortable careers goodbye.

After having spent several years doing my civic duty, writing letters, making phone calls, and generally making the politicos aware of my stand on several freedom-related issues, I've come to realize that politicians don't give a damn about what their constituents think.  

The gov't is attempting to control not substances, but our choices.  They want us to choose not to partake of entheogens and the only way they know to do that is by force (making the entheogen illegal then punishing those who continue to choose to partake of the plant).

Nothing short of a nationwide revolution will turn back the tide currently working to erode our freedoms.

Yes, I'm extremely jaded.

Do what you can to stop this erosion of our freedoms, but don't be surprised if they pooh-pooh your efforts and tell you they're doing this for your own good (or rather, the good of the CHILDREN--their favorite excuse).

[freeseeker]

This thread is full of so much bull shit salvia was made illegal there because the head shops were selling salvia to kids and you all think it was a bad thing to have it shut down. Shit, your sence of cognitive liberty has gone too far when you think that crap shuld be made available toanyone who wants to buy it.

get real it is the most potent natural psychodelic known to man and not for kids

Control of children starts with the parents.  But when parents abdicate that responsibility or can't be bothered, then it comes down to shops requiring ID to ensure patrons are of age.  Shops that can't handle that responsibility should be shut down.

No one has suggested that kids should be permitted to partake of salvia, or any other entheogen.  The fact is that politicians will use kids as the excuse to make entheogens illegal for adults.  How's that for cognitive liberty?

[senorsalvia]

I don't see any posting by Laughing Brown....  senorsal

[TooStonedToType]

Laughing Brown got deleted.

[simple_simon]

Why delete Laughing Brown's post? Censoring out ideas and opinions we don't like only serves to weaken and stagnate our own thought processes and ideas of truth and what's right. That is the same mindset held by most politicians who fight vigorously daily to filter out ideas and/or avenues of experience through certain chemicals & plants that they don't feel are right for our society as if they were caretakers and not merely participants in this society along with the rest of us. Thankfully Freeseeker quoted and responded to the post before it was erased thus allowing for progressive propagation of discussion and not just serving to potentiate the confirmation of the all knowing holiness of the initially stated opinions as though written in stone.

Now as to the original issue of this post I believe that we as self responsible adult citizens of this global community have a basic civil human birthright to any pathway of experience through any means available be they drugs, sex, food, work, bungee jumping, driving a car or simply being a close-minded idiot, etc. Each and every possible human experience should be legal and available to everyone as long as your right to experience doesn't infringe on someone else’s right to experience in some way. Of course children shouldn't be afforded these same rights because until they move out of their parents house they A) aren't self responsible & B)don't have a clear perception of reality and I believe that you'd have a hard time finding any adult that would claim otherwise so there is no debate there. That is a completely illogical and patronizing reason for outlawing anything. I'm all in favor of the regulation drugs because it should be made difficult for children to get but at the same time adults shouldn't be treated as children too and denied their birthright to any experience of their choosing. Adults are the fully realized human being. Children are merely humans in development and are the minority among us. A caterpillar can't fly because it hasn't earned the right to but once it matures and develops it's wings it's completely inhumane & immoral to chop off it's wings and force it to crawl around once again as a child and deprive it of the whole sky.

[X. Torris]

Why delete Laughing Brown's post? Censoring out ideas and opinions we don't like only serves to weaken and stagnate our own thought processes and ideas of truth and what's right.

I'm guessing that the post was not deleted for its content.  The account used to make the post was deleted because it was one of many "sock puppet" accounts set up by a disturbed and disgruntled ex-SPF member to post abusive messages,  harass users, and disrupt the fourm.  I suspect the post was deleted as a matter of course, along with the other drivel that was posted.

Generally speaking, ideas aren't censored around here.  Idle idiots who can't play nice are.

Each and every possible human experience should be legal and available to everyone as long as your right to experience doesn't infringe on someone else’s right to experience in some way. Of course children shouldn't be afforded these same rights because until they move out of their parents house they A) aren't self responsible & B)don't have a clear perception of reality and I believe that you'd have a hard time finding any adult that would claim otherwise so there is no debate there.

I am in agreement in principle with most of what you say, but I disagree with your very last statement in that I don't believe that there is no room for debate.  For example, what if the parent believes their child should be subjected to a extremely powerful psychedelic as a matter of course in order to give them " a clear perception of reality"?  Is it their right to give their child powerful mind-expanding drugs?  Where's the moral line over which a "right" becomes morally reprehensible?  I'd say there's room for debate there.

(When I read your post, what popped into my mind was the scene from--- I think "Message to Love", about the 1970 Isle of Wight festival--- when the filmmaker is talking to the burnt out hippie couple talking about giving acid to their 4 or 5 year old.  :shock: )

I'm kind-of-not-really playing devil's advocate here to point out that the scenario you propose is not necessarily as cut-and-dry as to eliminate all debate.  But, in general, I don't believe that so-called "victimless" crimes should be criminalized, and certainly not the use or possession or even the manufacturing of drugs.

[TooStonedToType]

"Censoring out ideas and opinions we don't like only serves to weaken and stagnate our own thought processes and ideas of truth and what's right. "

No ones ideas and opinions were censored from this site.  Laughing Brown was deleted as it was a troll account of someone who was tring to disrupt this board. He doesn't use salvia or any other entheogens and only STATED purpose is to destroy this community. He may make a decent post now and then, but they are far and few between and some of those got deleted with the crap he posted.

[TooStonedToType]

For debate I'll also throw out there the curandera Maria Sabina tried salvia and mushrooms at a young age.  Maybe 10-12 years-old?

[laughingwillow]

Simon: The only idea I've seen stalkerz-man bring to the table as of late is his mistaken belief that everyone on this board who finds his behavior to be boorish is a sockpuppet of his supposed arch-nemisis. Now, if'n that was a floatable theory, it would be one thing to supress that info. That would be bad, indeed. But anyone who has participated in this community for any length of time knows that we are all separate physical entities living in various places throughout the world simply by the trades we have conducted and the personal relationships we've forged. Anyone but stalkerz-man, that is. His aim appears to be in sullying our collective reputation.

On the other hand, after witnessing this guy's insistant cyber-attacks, most by proxie, I have to wonder if there ever really was an arch-nemisis after all. Either way, he's a stuck record that's warped to boot. (but he's definitely NOT a freak. I repeat... stalkerz-man, he is not a freak.)

One thing I do like about these new digs is the mods ability to simply erase any signs of the same old shit storm brewing on the horizon. That wasn't allowed under the former admin. We had to wait until the guy cycled through his dementia and erased most of the evidence himself. And let me tell you, that made for some curious threads, too....

lw

[senorsalvia]

We had to wait until the guy cycled through his dementia and erased most of the evidence himself. And let me tell you, that made for some curious threads, too....

lw[/quote]--------------- :lol:  :lol: --  I kinda liked watching all the fits and starts that resulted from the deletion and or rewrites perpetrated by 'da 'ole paranioc :wink: ---  Those that had been aboard awhile  had a ringside seat watching newbies arrive and then see them courageously and courteously ask for some clarification concerning all those blown to shred threads....  I liked it especially when one of the newbs would suss out the B.S. factor pronto and publicly call the guy on in it, in say, their 2nd or third post....   You could see the beginnings of a good new member appearing...   On the other hand, yep, we are certainly tired of all the shennanniganns, and what appears to be some missdirected vendetta on the ole paranoid ones' part...........    senorsal