Mexican Salvia Species fer Hybridization

[Finbar]

I started a new topic for possible speciez to hybridize Salvia d.

Some of these will be hard to find.

The speceiz in bold are from Mexico and having the desired chromosome count.

The list is not complete for speciez or chomosome countz. They are all the onez that I could find on the web that have been typed. There are prolly more.

S. coccinea is easily found at HD, Lowes, etc.. I would start with the Mexican speciez with the desired chromosome count.

I will post a list of all the Mexican speciez later. I have over 200 now. Most have not been typed. Most do not even have picz on Google. Prolly difficult to acquire.

Maybe this could be an SPR international project. Divide the Mexican list up where each participate will get several Mexican speciez and cross them with Salvia d.

I have great optimizim that this Salvia d hybridization project will succeed.

It iz important to get a hybrid as this plant will be outlawed. It is a matter of time. So what? Well, from my recent Salvia studiez, there are a lot of them that have human disease curative propertiez. Cancer, AIDS, antibacterial, plant antifeedant propertiez, insect replellant, antileukemia, antiviral, antidepressive, antioxidant and more intersting propertiez.

Interesting genus of plantz.

I feel that even another "majic" Salvia will be found.

Please post your desire to participate in the project.

Also, post any other ideaz that you feel would help.

Fin


S. aethiopis[N=11]
S. argentea[N=11]
S. castanea[N=11]
S. coccinea[N=11]
S. coccinea  var. pseudococcinea[N=11]
S. divinorum[N=11]
S. fluviatilis[N=11]
S. gilliesii[N=11]
S. grahami[N=11]
S. gravida[N=11]
S. hidalgensis[N=11]
S. jurisicii[N=11]
S. lanata[N=11]
S. leucantha[N=11]
S. longispicata[N=11, 2N=22, 2n+22+3B]
S. lupulina[N=11]
S. lycioides[N=11+1S]
S. mexicana[N=11]
S. microphylla v wislizenii(N=11)(=S. lemmonii)
S. phlomoides africana[N=11]
S. phlomoides boissieri[N=11]
S. phlomoides phlomoides[N=11]
S. pseudococcinia[N=11]
S. sandandica(N=11)
S. sclarea[N=11]
S. sessei(N=11)
S. tiliifolia[N=11]
S. urica(N=11)

(edit - highlighted several more confirmed Mexican species and added more species)

[senorsalvia]

Yo Fin:   You have great optimism for a hybrid / you belive another 'majick' salvia will be found / but ah....  You do truly believe our illustrious ally will be outlawed   ------       Jeez, I was havin' such a nice day :wink: ------------  Sounds like a cool project     ---   sal

[laughingwillow]

I think its a great project. I'm willing to help, but that prolly atin't saying much.

I believe....

lw

[Hyper_Eye]

I think it is unlikely to be outlawed any time soon. It is not as easy to outlaw something like a plant because people don't care for government control. If it were a problem then there would be more support for outlawing it. The bottom line is that 98% (this is a guess) of America does not know what Salvia Divinorum is. It is not causing any problems. As long as it is not causing any problems it is not going to be high on anyones agenda. The powers that be are not passing bills quickly right now. And the bills that are passing are mostly right-wing agenda bills that take a while to go through due to democrats holding up the vote (let's hope it stays that way... the less they pass the less we get screwed.) On a state level, most states are not going to ban it unless it is a problem. Now, I will admit that people are slowly becoming aware of what it is. It is being sold in headshops around the country and people are trying it out. In my experience, most people that try it don't like it. They try strong extract the first time they use it and it is too much for them. It scares them or it dosn't feel good and they never try it again. This is a good thing as it means the people that are simply looking for a party drug are going to stay away and they are the ones that tend to cause problems. As long as people aren't driving in their cars, smoking 21x extract, and wrecking their cars (which is the likely next step for anyone that would be dumb enough to smoke 21x extract while driving) I don't think we have a lot to worry about.

I smoke extract that I buy in 1 gram vials. I smoke a single hit from a one-hitter, put it away, and finish what's in it later. One gram can last me 4 months or more. I only do it on weekends (not every week), on my back-porch, usually with a sitter, only once in a night. Witthin 20 minutes my mind is back to normal. I don't see any reason why I should not be able to do this. If this could be considered something harmful to society then McDonald's is a mass murderer.

Also, how much time do you think law enforement is going to spend persuing the home growers that are growing for personal consumption? I would say 0. That is why I purchased a plant. If it becomes illegal then I will keep it to myself. You would probably be more likely to get busted downloading an mp3.

[Green2Herman]

Good luck

[TooStonedToType]

Sounds like a good project.  Most of the nurserys around here are out of stock for the winter, but I'm looking around.

Already several places have made this plant illegal.  "It is not as easy to outlaw something like a plant because people don't care for government control."  Doesn't seem that hard, most people are sheep.

[Ashoka]

They outlawed Salvia in Denmark within a week after one of our national television channels had a news coverage on the plant. So, I think it's a great project! They wouldn't outlaw all salvia's in close relation to S. divinorum, would they?

[Hyper_Eye]

They outlawed Salvia in Denmark within a week after one of our national television channels had a news coverage on the plant. So, I think it's a great project! They wouldn't outlaw all salvia's in close relation to S. divinorum, would they?

I think the thing to look for in the legislation is whether or not Salvinorin A itself was outlawed. If that is the case then it dosn't matter what the plant is. And without that ingredient, it's just a nice plant.

[laughingwillow]

hyper-eye: That would depend on how you define "not mattering."

lw

[Veracohr]

I think the thing to look for in the legislation is whether or not Salvinorin A itself was outlawed. If that is the case then it dosn't matter what the plant is. And without that ingredient, it's just a nice plant.

I think that really depends on the government issuing the legislation. Don't think that all governments proclaim laws in the same way.

[Jupe]

also keep in the mind the new species would also be outlawed, if it containes the troublesome chemical in question salvinorin A.  Many entheogens are quite legal to grow, its processing the plant for consumption that gets you in trouble.

  I'm all for experimenting however, and am going to save this years pollen, any suggestions on how to do this?  clip the individual flowers?  Shake flowers over bag?    My plants have stopped growingup, at least the main stalks have, and look like they are getting ready to do their thing...but I could be too expectant... :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:  ps. an addition of common names would be helpful .

[Finbar]

Theoretically, all of this group could be crossed if they have the proper genetic counts.

Calosphace was a Section of Salvia, but I think it has been raised to Subgenus level.

Kingdom -         Plantae
Subkingdom -      Tracheobionta
Superdivision -       Spermatophyta
Division -                   Magnoliophyta
Class -                          Magnoliopsida
Subclass -                         Asteridae
Order -                                 Lamiales
Family -                                    Lamiaceae
Genus -                                        Salvia
Subgenus -                                      Calosphace
Section -                                              Dusenostachys(*S. divinorum)

Sub genus Calosphace

Salvia[/b]

S. agnes
S. alamosana
S. betuliifolia var. chasmema
S. clinopodioides
S. concolor
S. crucis
S. cryptodonta
S. divinorum(*Section Dusenostachys)
S. elegans
S. emaciata
S. forreri
S. fulgens
S. galinsogifolia
S. gesneraeflora
S. glechomifolia
S. greggii
S. hirsuta
S. iodantha
S. keerlii
S. laevis
S. lasiantha
S. lavanduloides
S. longistyla
S. lycioides
S. melissodora
S. mexicana
S. microphylla
S. microphylla var. wislizenii(=S. lemmonii)
S. misella
S. modica
S. mucidiflora
S. nana
S. polstachya
S. prunifolia
S. purpurea
S. reflexa
S. regla
S. riparia
S. roscida
S. cf. sagitatta
S. seemannii
S. subincisa
S. tiliaefolia
S. uliginosa
S. veronicaefolia

**Species in BOLD are confirmed Salvias in Mexico and in Subgenus Calosphace. There are prolly more, and some may even be on this list.

Fin

(edit - S. seemanii, confirmed Mexican species.)
(edit - added, 'and in subgenus Calosphace.')
(edit - all in bold are in Caloshapace and added several more species)

[Green2Herman]

This is very interresting. I think I will order seeds for some and give it a try.

[Finbar]

It would help if one or more peepz would go through tha list and Google the namez of the Salvia speciez and post linkz to vendorz that sell seedz or plantz.

I have spent tha past several weekz compiling this list. Not an easy task. Especially from only knowing a few namez.

I am now making a list of worldwide speciez(900+) and comparing that to the known Mexican speices(230+). From there, I am looking for species that grow in Europe/Asia and Mexico.

My theory iz that Salvia divinorum iz not an endemic speicez to Mexico. I think it iz a hybrid of a Mexican speciez and maybe one from Asia.

The plant iz a hybrid - the whole genus iz a hybrid. Sterile or semi-sterility iz found in some hybridz(ex - horse+donkey=mule).

(Mule+donkey=monkey?)
(Horse+donky=honky?)

There iz no ancient Mayan name for Salvia divinorum. Otherz have stated that there iz one, but tha proof iz tenuous at best.

The Mayan Codex pictorial of S.d. could be anything.

"Ska Pastora", "the sheppherdess", referencez to tha Virgin Mary - these termz were not known preconquest. Sheep were not endemic to tha region preconquest.

The ritual useage of the local, modern peoplez, via oral ingestion, makez it clear that they have no idea of the plant'z full potential. The active component iz deactivated in tha stomach.

The fact that several Mexican speciez occur there and in Asia, makez it at least probable that this theory could have occurred. That iz - an Asian speciez in Mexico.

I think that the plant iz modern, or at least postconquest.

I believe that a Chinese person brought one of the parent'z seedz/plantz to America. Such az tha Chinese that worked building the railroads in the West.

He grew the plant and the hummingbirdz did tha rest. They can migrate 3,000 milez. Of course, that meanz that tha South American speciez have to be included also as a possible parent of Salvia d..

But, thiz iz just an armchair approach to tha topic. Modern DNA methodz should be able to tell fer sure.

Anyway, someone please make a list of vendorz.

Thanx,
Fin

[Hyper_Eye]

Why do you replace all your s's with z's. It isn't a problem at first but after reading one of your posts all the way through it is kind of annoying.