Hardware store find!

[CJ]

Had an interesting day at the Hardware/chainstore, today!

     Went to the regular Nursery first,no interesting cacti, nor did I really expect any. About three months ago, I found a monstrous Pachnoi, or short spined peruvian there,unlabeled. It resembled my one other true find at a hardware store about two and 1/2 years ago. Large pots an` soil however was what i was after,came up short w/a few pots, an` no soil.

      Anyways,stopped by the hardware/chainstore on the way home,( a bit dissapointed about my first choice place),and decided to take a look at their cacti. And there it was. Two Trichocereus Pachanoi in one pot,one w/ a pup,15 and 16 inches respectivly,3" in diameter where thickest. Amazing find for me,and actually labeled Trich. Pachanoi.

     So I got it up to the outside counter, along w/bags of cactus soil,where this rather very straight middle aged lady took my money. Somehow we got into a conservation ,and she told me about the beautiful the flowers of this particular cacti ,and how they mostly bloomed at night. Also, she described when to water it,detailling very well the ribs pinching in. She finished up that she was giving me some'old fashioned info',whatever that mean`t,especially since it was well on the money. What really interested me was that the counter person kept referring like this wasn`t the only cacti of this kind to be sold here.Whoa there, sure Got my attention!!

     Jus` for interest,that Pachanoi/Peruvian I acquired two and 1/2 years ago did a very strange thing. It forked at the tip about a year ago,and now has two parrallel columns. It literally looks like a two pronged fork! Very odd.

     Jus to mention,they were selling live ladybugs there,so I bought two packs,(cheap). I`ll turn them loose this evening. that was kinda neat too,suprised to see that besides the usual assortment of  killer chems.

[EA-1306]

When you day pachanoi/peruvian is that the monstrose cactus?
Is that the one that branched into two columns?

It sounds kind of like the CCC material, which some believe to be a hybrid.

[CJ]

Yes,it was a montrous. It`s pups so far resemble very closely the pups on my 'pachanoi Monstrous' from S.S. This includes a heavy "V' above the aerioles.

     The plant in total is a little over 4'. The two parrallel columns are  1 foot apiece. Much of the main column up looks a bit like flattened Bridgsesii in appearance. There on the coloumn and one of the parralel coloumns is a section of monstrous distortion. The colour is a  Army medium to lighter green,w/some streaking and a little glaucation.The aerioles themselves are white and small,and are somewhat reccessed into the plant. There are five spines to an aeriole. Colour tends to be dark brown at the base on some spines,lighter brown for the rest,or for many, light brown the whole spine. A few spines towards the base of the main column get to one inch,w/no thickening towards the base. they always are the top spine in the Aeriole. The rest of the spines tend to be less than a 1/4".

     What the plant did a year ago was form 12 or 14 ribs at the tip, soon after I had repotted the plant. This then amazingly split into 2 coloumns, 6 and 7 ribs apiece.The dual coloumns themselves are rounded,unlike much of the main coloumn,whitch I described as more Bridgesii like. One huanocoensis I have looks a bit like it also.

     The other interesting thing this plant did was fork in 'line w/ it`s pot mate( a five ft. Peruvianus Blu Form),and parrellel to the wall behind it,very symetrical. I wonder if it sensed it`s suroundings,it`s forking that way maximixing sunlight?

     This be a trippy plant. The owner of a particular nursury called it a 'thing' rather emphatically(heavy lettering if i remember right), but said he did beleive it to be a Pachanoi ,going by the photo I sent him.

[EA-1306]

I asked Trout if he thought the clone you describe (CCC short spine peruvianus it has been called) was synonymous with the small spine peruvianus from Huancabamba.

He mentioned that these observations don't mean that much, but he had them anyway:

The spination on mine has been far weaker and different shaped than the CCC. (Spines on the CCC has been far more subulate than the Huancabamba; at least on what is here)
The color in full sun is far lighter on the CCC material.
The diameter on the CCC material is consistently larger. Up to 4.5 inches has been common.
The CCC material has a woody core unlike anything I've encountered in any other pachanoid or peruvianoid.
The CCC material regularly forms monstrose terminations and sometimes crests. It also frequently shows an on/off monstrose/melted-wax tendency on some columns. I have not observed this on any of the Huancabamba material.
The Huancabamba material also has been *substantially* more cold and wet tolerant than the CCC.

Note that the woody core comment kind of places it as unique among Trichocereus that Trout has examined.  Also though this clone is very novel and neat, it is not known for potency, though that hardly matters.
A fellow at the nook also reported having the plant branch in the manner you described, it may even bifurcate again.

I do not think it is a pachanoi, but do consider the Huancabamba small spine peruvianus to be a pachanoi. I think the Backeberg clone is a rather uniqe selection as well, and thus should not be thought of as a typical T pachanoi.

[CJ]

Well then of course,one rule out would be to examine the core. That may happen in time. Do keep in mind this does have the molten wax appearance in several areas. I also find the flattened sides as to some interest,especially w/ more conventional ribbing on the plant.

like i say,i look at a pup of it`s own,then look over two plants to a pup of the S.S. Pachanoi monstrous,and to my eye,they look very close. But i simply state that for some kind of reference.

[EA-1306]

Here is a tiny bit more of what Trout had to say, this precedes the quote above. It is in response to a question of synonymy between the Hunacabamba and the CCC material, which is the monstrous clone that I suspect you describe.

No those two are clearly different plants. I would even be willing to bet money on this.
The CCC material only looks identical on some new growth. This is a primary reason that comparative identification of sterile materials is ill-advised.
I would also suggest that if people are attempting this it is less than sensible to base conclusions of comparing a single plant of each.
For comparing plants to determine synonymity one should see at least a dozen of each; ideally grown under different circumstances. Anything less is just a snapshot that not necessarily extrapolatable beyond those single specimens.
Some examples of points of variance (all sterile observations so this is limited in any real meaning)

[visionarybear]

wow, that sounds amazing? you say forked as in not pupped but the column actually 'split' into two seperte columns? man, id love to see a picture, never seen a cactus do this before!

[CJ]

you`r on,Vis.Bear! I have a camera. I used to have a photo site,mabe I can get back there, Rite now in fact the box that i use for all tha` stuff I`m trying to get back online. More money out,on the phone w/tech.  Snail mail.or the upload site here tho`,I`ll get back.

     Quite a sight, really.. you wonder how it knows to do that...

[EA-1306]

This is the one from the nook I mentioned.
Many cacti actually bifurcate in that manner, but it is somewhat rare for columnar types.
http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php? ... t&id=17842

The plant in the picture bifurcated in the manner you describe.

[CJ]

Hmmmn. no,..

    Actually,my cacti looks quite a good bit different then what is pesented there.  That heavy notching sure doesen`t carry over from there to 'here'.The shape of the two coloumns doesn`t match.And the raised shape of the ribs ,especially. no.

     They may be the same cacti,but now i`m not so convinced w/that picture, as in jus` accepting it as before, only because of the relative singularity of the main coloumn splitting.

     The main colloumn on mine looks around a good 2' to 2-1/2 ft. taller then what i am seeing there,before it splits,(yea true,jus much longer length) but it`s the shape of the main colloumn that always puzzled me.And w/ mine,the two parrellel coloumns are almost perfectly symetrical, they both are the leading tips. No varience,what one does,so does the other,as if in a mirror.

     In the main, not quite the same thing ...the more I look at it then go outside...no.

      Mabe the cores are..heh. That may well be..

[EA-1306]

Interesting, I suspect they may be cones of the same cactus still, but they might be quite different. Do you know the original source of your cutting?

That cactus pictured branched into two at the main meristem, the branched decpited are the same age, whats more one of the branches did it again later, as can be seen in this picture.
http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php? ... t&id=18179

I am very interested in seeing pictures if you have them.
I suspect that the equal height of your meristems makes them not subject to the auxins that the meristems secrete to inhibit growth of secondary meristem (areoles), while in the plant depicted the bifurcation results in one being raised slightly in comparison to the other, thus resulting in the taller one inhibiting the shorter to a degree hence the unequal growth.

The plant in the phot is the one that I had asked Ktrout about, it has been called (by MSSmith) a 'short spined peruvianus' not to be confused with the 'small spine peruvianus' which is a peruvian pachanoi from the Huancabamba area.

[CJ]

If we are going by your second picture,then we are definetly not talking about the same proccess,at least.

     My description is above,but again, what my main collumn did was divide up into two. It suddenly and abruptly developed a number of extra very normal ribs, grew for a few inches,and then it divided into nearly equal halves,while perhaps tacking on several more ribs on one or both new main trunks.

     Absolutly no branching from the side. No Monstrous tip. Didn`t do that.

     For example(or not),it looks like none of the drawings Ben uses at the beginning of the Trichocereus section in his catalogue. It resembles instead a huge two pronged tuning fork.

     When I can,I will do pics,including the area where one became two.

     Source,a hardware store.
,not the same one that I got my Pachanoi at.

     (P.S. - the first pic. I thought showed more a proccess of division)                                        

.

[EA-1306]

You have to realize that branch started at the top right next to the meristem and then as the plant grew came to look as it does, as in coming from  the side. It started at the very top like yours, but they didn't stay the same size, and fork out, instead one dominated the other.

What you describe is common for Mammillaria but quite rare for columnar cacti. It will be neat to see.
I am curious as to the original source, was it a seed grown plant, a cutting, what suppler etc. I know you probably don't have that info, but it would be nice.

[TooStonedToType]

Inspired by your post, I looked at my local hardware store.  Usually, they have nothing decent.  Found a nice little group of Trichocereus spachianus for $2.97.

[CJ]

Cool!

      Yea,I`ll photo the Pachanoi`s also...very classic looking Trich`s.