The Case Against DMT Elves

[Avery L. Breath]

Interesting article.......

http://www.tripzine.com/articles.asp?id=dmt_pickover

....... written by the publisher of tripzine no less

And while your down the rabbit hole,
http://www.tripzine.com/pit.asp?id=pit_toc

[laughingwillow]

I read some of the article posted and couldn't make myself finish it. Not that I have a dog in this fight, but there is nothing but speculation on both sides.

Thanks for the link, though.lw

[Avery L. Breath]

Well, I guess the article is not for everybody, but don't be discouraging now. :lol:

Just an interesting take on things...... IMO

[camel]

who cares?

i think ppls' experiences "under the influence" are unique to themselves, as what you experience relies heavily upon all things you've experienced over the duration of your whole lifetime.

the only entity ive ever theoretically encountered after having partaken in such "naughties" was a business man in a suit/tie pacing back and forth w/a briefcase in his hand (while walking the one way) which would instantly turn into a basketball when he'd turn around and walk the other way.

figure that one out.

-c

[Avery L. Breath]

Hey Camel!..... Good to see you posting.  Seems like it's been a year or so.  How you been doing?  (this is the artist formerly known as Andy the Great Something BTW)  Oh and well said........ is all intellectual blather and what not.

Still, interesting take.  Yah got wonder about the bit about seeing familiar icongraphy all the time. or sense in the patterns.

I personally suspect a person could lean many directions on this subject and still be comfortable.

Whats that freud used to say?....... and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[Ole Sok]

//http://forums.ayahuasca.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=7251&start=75

This is more useful imo.

[laughingwillow]

Not meaning to be discouraging, bro. It just reminds me alot of the arguments for and against life after death.

As far as the elves really existing... I guess I've never looked at it that way. My speculations would run more toward dmt being a substance that allows us to access a vast library of knowledge and the elves as visual icons programmed into the loop.

lw

[Avery L. Breath]

Thats alwright LW, it's a natural reaction to ideas that may questions ones own personal and cherished notions. :wink:

[TooStonedToType]

The writer seems pretty sure of his conclusions, "Given all of this, in a nutshell, the case for autonomous disincarnate DMT entities is closed."

[Avery L. Breath]

Good point TSTT.  Your right, the writer seems pretty convinced he's got it all figured out....... and for himself, maybe he does....... which in itself would be kinda tragic.  He's convinced himself theirs no magic to it.  Nothing extraordinary.

....... a genuine jonny one note.

[Amomynous]

I have a few of Clifford Pickvoer's book (they're quite good if you're into aesthetic mathematics). Interesting that he's also into psychedelic theory...

With a few exceptions (such as "hidden meaning" and "Gaia consciousness"), I find his views expressed in the link to be eloquent and concise expressions of the prevailing scientific/rational world view. I don't happen to agree with some of his points, but I think they're well thought-out and worthy of consideration. I think he tends to over-generalize his own experiences into general trends and forms, but as personal experience is one of the main sources of data we have of these domains, this is an understandable mistake (and one I think we're all prone to).

Oh, and to answer Camel's question: I care. I like to read the opinion of intelligent and insightful people when it comes to psychedelic theory. I don't have to necessarily agree with them to enjoy their opinions. [McKenna, for example, is someone I love reading/hearing, despite the fact that I agree with almost nothing he says ]

[Avery L. Breath]

I suspect if you were to take this discussion over to the ayahuasca forum they would somewhat agree with this article actually.  They would say that DMT is mearly a amplifier, or a flashlight.  That everything important, the guideing spirit is in the vine.  They would I imagine sorta equate it as the vine being the tour guide and the admixtures being advanced transportation devices perhaps.

[Green2Herman]

If you get blind in your adulthood you sometimes get certain problems. For once melatonin production can increase for some time. Also you sometimes see the "elfs" and "ufos". Both problems will go away although I do not remember how long it takes.

[psilocyberin]

But, like anything, when you do it many times the magic tends to wear off and reveal itself for what it is; an exotic aberration of the brain's perceptual mechanics

This guy seems to me like one of those people who have never questioned their own reality and thinks that their own reality is THE reality. All life is, is an exotic abberation of the brains perceptual mechanics, one reality is no more real than any other reality for it is all perceptualized.


Now, as far as elves and such, I think the only way to possibly find out is if we gave someone DMt which had no concept of elves or aliens (which would be hard to find, but Im sure they are out there) and find out if they see the same thing. Dr. Rick Strassmans work on DMT had many more findings and coincidences of a majority of his patients seeing reptilian/robotic type aliens which were usually trying to help them or experiment on them, than elves.

I personally believe there is a link between the release of DMT by the pinneal gland and Schitzophrenia. I have found no study done so far on this, and have only been able to make my theories based upon long conversations with a very schitzophrenic friend of mine and also observing him as he was in the depths of unmedicated "insanity". There were times when he knew events in the future, and I can honestly say that he made a believer out of me on the subject of seers. Once, he described with exact details what was going to occur over the next 12 hours of one day, which all were exactly the way he described them. Events that were beyond our control.

Even after reading this article, I still think DMT is a portal to a glimpse of another realm or an amplifier of universal consciousness at the individual level.

[Aneurysm]

As far as I know the pineal gland and its secretion of DMT has nothing to do with schizophrenia.  I believe Huxley pointed out that it had to do with the over abundance of a certain chemical called adrenochrome which is a byproduct of adrenaline breaking down.

What DMT does have to do with is far more interesting.  For instance, why is it that 49 days after conception, a fetus gets a spike of endogenous DMT?  

Now, as for the elf issue, I'll read the article in due course (too many things to read these days!), but for now I shall repost something here that I originally wrote for the T McK group on MySpace.  Enjoy:

I think that the elves are something that is outside of our own personal psyches for two reasons:

..1. The fact that they convey information and knowledge outside of what we currently know (ie. Terrence McKenna's Time Wave Zero theory)

..2. The fact that they are a repeatable aspect of the DMT experience among a range of individuals. Everyone has their own mythologies and sets of symbols that have specific meanings to them. If the elves were a part of us, they would be subject to these individual mythologies and symbol sets and thus might not even appear as elves at all or have differing behavior from that which is reported. Hence something like similar elven recurrence with largely consistent behavior would suggest something beyond our psyche.

Now the real big question is why don't people encounter the elves all the time? Sometimes they get an NDE, sometimes reptilians or insectoids, sometimes aliens. We can tap into the signal but how do we control the channels?