The Void

[Arjuna]

So, on many a trip to the other side and back, really anytime in my life when I've had a limnial experience, enthogenically created or not I come back to the same dilemma... It seems that there is this impregnable void that separates subject from object, perciever from percieved; and keeps opposites apart. It is possible to percieve its absence, but not the thing iself.... Could that be God?

There are times that I have spent playing with polar opposites, and trying to mediate down to a point where the opposites converge. No matter how much conceptualization you could do to make life = death, heaven = hell. peace = war, there is always a space that keeps the opposites from touching. In this action a ballet ensues wherby the universe unfolds. The fractals that appear and return to this void are perfect and absolute while representing chaos. The infinite nature of creation in a probablisitc universe seems to happen in a determined and ordely fashion.

There are three traits that I think qualify a being as "God"
1. Omnicience
2. Omnipresence
3. Omnibenevolence.

In other words, all knowing, part of everything, and all good.
I think the void fits these criteria. The Void is omnicient, every concept that touches it is absorbed. It is omnipresent becasue no matter what object you see in the world can't not be a part of it. Everything that is touched by the Void exists; The Void leaving its mark like afingerprint, everything that the Void is has the same patterns; clusters of galaxies seem to evolve over millions of years the same way that arteries take shape in a body, limbs of a tree, Salmon migration patterns, etc. The micro is in the macro; but the micro will never be the macro. There will always a differentiator, keeping the two from becoming one. The benovlance is where its gets tricky. The Void is not necesarily benevolant per se, its more of a chaotic neutral alignment. The Void only ensures that creation continues and progresses, but the void itself has no agenda. It takes a human moral judgement as to whehter prgoression and growth are necesairly "good" things.


So, Thoughts?

[dendro]

I think oneness happens.

Shiva and Shakti embrace and become one.

When the void manifests as pure astonishment, it is one.

When all things freeze frame, and awareness is taken wholly by astonishment, there is no subject or object, ime.

Also when all things dissolve into pale light.

Maybe I'm not understanding your meanings, Arjuna. But if god is the interface, as you suggest, then when I have perfect awareness of the interface, I will know, and be one with, god. I'm a theist, so that would be very cool with me.  :smoke:3

pretty deep subject, there's so many kinds of voidness, always new surprises, so it's hard to define with certainty.

anyhoo, ya got me thinkin...  :blaugh:

[amrad]

Hummmm,
 .

Sariputra, know then: form does not differ from emptiness, nor does emptiness differ from form. Form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness.

Sariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness. None are born or die, nor are they defiled or immaculate, nor do they wax or wane. Therefore, where there is emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no impulse, nor is there consciousness. No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, or mind. No color, sound, smell, taste, touch, or object of mind. There is no domain of sight nor even domain of mind consciousness. There is no ignorance nor is there ceasing of ignorance. There is no withering, no death, nor is there ceasing of withering and death. There is no suffering, or cause of suffering, or cease in suffering, or path to lead from suffering. There is no cognition, nor even attainment.

So know that the Bodhisattva, indifferent to any kind of attainment whatsoever but dwelling in Prajna wisdom, is freed of any thought covering, get rid of the fear bred by it, has overcome what can upset and in the end reaches utmost Nirvana. All Buddhas of past and present, and Buddhas of future time, through faith in Prajna wisdom, come to full and perfect Enlightenment.

Therefore, one should know the Prajna paramita as the mantra of great knowledge, the miraculous, the utmost, the unequalled mantra, whose words relieve all suffering. This is highest wisdom, true beyond all doubt.

Know then and proclaim the Prajna paramita mantra. It spells like this:

Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate, bodhi svaha !

[amrad]

If you still hold to the concept of self there will always be a gulf between perceived and perceiver.  If there is no one to perceive then no object exists nor anyone to perceive it.  And no longer a need for a god, "thou art that,''.  Or as a sufi saint once said quit this world, quit the next world, then quit quiting.