The Present

[Jethro Tull]

...for the first time? C'mon now, there is nothing new in "The Present" that hasn't been "said" by many, in many ways, over a long period of time. Calling it revelatory is your personal view, unless you can point out to me what part of it is.

Specifically, I'd say this book is revelatory in the sense that it deals with our situation as a human race right now.  The more recent the work is, the closer it is to our current level of awareness.  It sort of combines the "old" things that have been said many times with the "new," or our present situation.

I'll mention a few things that I specifically found new and revelatory.  In the version (without religion), The Beatles section was very new to me, and one of those things that clicked right away, because I love The Beatles and have been familiar with their music and their message for a long time.  This section helped me enjoy and listen to The Beatles in a whole new way.  The version (with religion) is revelatory to me, because I have never seen the Bible interpreted in that way.  It made a great deal of sense.

[Jethro Tull]

Zaka, I am glad the book is resonating with you.

quote from initial post: ....I hope this book helps you grow spiritually like it did for me.

Reading the quote above may give one the impression that READING the linked material helped the guy who started this thread to grow spiritually. However, after reading at the Lycaeum, its become clear that the fellow who started this thread also WROTE the book in question.

Please understand that a third party reading another's work, finding finding it enlightening and posting for others to read  is not the same as an author claiming a book he wrote will enlighten others as it enlightened him to write it. That is just plain disingenuous, imo.

I did not write "The Present(s)."  What brought you to this conclusion?
I have an entry up on the Truth Contest called:  Buddha's Fire Sermon.

One more question, Jethro...

You quote Joseph Campbell in your linked work in an effort ot define the truth, yet also appear to have a disdain for mythology. As Joseph Campbell was the ultimate researcher/proponent on the contribution of mythology in the evolution of mankind, I'm wondering how you reconcile those seemingly polar-opposite positions?

It is finding the middle ground between science and religion.  Neither have the whole truth, but together we can begin to see.  It is making the two one.

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind. - Albert Einstein

[Jethro Tull]

I also get the impression that the author lacks experience with the active sacrament you mentioned above. And because of that, I'm having a tough time figuring out why the work in question has been brought before this particular community.....  

I have experience with the active sacrament mentioned above, among many others.  Salvia is one of the greatest teachers I have had.  I brought this work before this community because I knew I would find curious, open-minds, with a desire to seek truth.

I believe that most great music maybe channeled & realized that you are just using the beatles as an example.
Not sure if I'm ready to idolize them....?
Yes it's true that there was a real change that occurred in '64....

Aye.  If there is one thing we have learned, it is that idolizing figures is not worthwhile.  Idolize the teachings, the lyrics, the truths.  The Beatles had much inspiration pass through them in the form of sugarcoated truth through beautiful music.  My my, I love The Beatles.  Nothing like a little help from my friends.

[laughingwillow]

I was open minded enough to take the time to locate a machine capable of running microsoft and then reading the material in question. The op is using the term "the truth" as if the author of the piece in question has a monopoly on that commodity. I see many of the truths presented as simply quotes from various authors backed up by the writer's OPINIONS on the pieces quoted. Big deal.  And I'm still not convinced that the op isn't also the author of the piece in question, which makes the situation all that much more bizarre, imo.  

Here is a truth for you..... "While the Tao cannot be expressed, it can be known, and its principles can be followed."

lw

[Jethro Tull]

Yes, all The Present is, is an attempt to explain absolute truth with conventional truth.  That's all we can do.
Don't you agree that we should try to use skillful means to lead others along their paths?
"The Present" may or may not suffice; I personally think it does, and that is why I provided the link.  Regardless, more entries will be submitted and ultimately confined into one entry that is the most understandable, and the most complete.  It will be written by everyone, and no-one, just as the collective unconscious/universal mind/Holy Spirit is everyone and no-one.
If you are interested in helping others along the path, and you think that the current entries are not worth showing others, then you should submit your own entry.
I submitted my own last week.  It's called "Buddha's Fire Sermon."
The OP was me, not the author of the work in question.  I wasn't clear on how to present the material at the time, and I assure you, I have learned much since the OP.  In giving my love, all I can do is seek and learn.

[Amomynous]

Yes, all The Present is, is an attempt to explain absolute truth with conventional truth.  That's all we can do.

Do you think so? I'm not entirely sure.

There are directions of travel which are orthogonal to those of truth and explanation, and it seems to me that one of the things we can do is follow those paths -- in fact, I'd say it is an ethical imperative. I'm all for skillful means and I love thought and explication (in fact, I'm often beaten up for loving them too much), and insofar as explanations can open people up to the possibility of these orthogonal directions I think they're great. But I think the explanations are not all we can do, and in some way they are secondary. The first thing to do is travel down those paths.  

I'm not criticizing the author's work, efforts, or intentions. While they don't resonate with me they may with some, and that could be a good thing. My take on LW's discomfort (and, speaking for him, I could be wrong) isn't so much with the product, but with what you think has been accomplished. The Present is but one story out of an infinity that can be told, and the fact that it doesn't resonate with any particular person doesn't mean that said person is close-minded. He or she may just resonate better with different stories.

[laughingwillow]

Thanks or the clarifications, jt.

And thank you, anon, for putting into words that which eluded my ability to explain clearly.

lw

[Jethro Tull]

insofar as explanations can open people up to the possibility of these orthogonal directions I think they're great. But I think the explanations are not all we can do, and in some way they are secondary. The first thing to do is travel down those paths.

Wonderful post, Amom.
The first thing to do is to travel down the paths.  Showing others to the path can help them along so that they may follow the paths, as the paths are for our steps alone.  I have personally gained great insight from The Present, and some others that I have showed it to are starting to wake up.  Thus, I find the effort worthwhile.

You are right, this work is one of infinity, but from what I see, this book tells it how it is in a way where people in this day and age can understand it.  It is an effort to gather evidence and explain what it shows.  It will not work for everyone, and that is why there is a contest.  If someone thinks they can do better, they should submit an entry.

My goal of sharing this work and this contest with open-minds like the ones in this community is to spread awareness, and possibly find some others who want to show their compassion by helping others along the path.  Maybe we will find a more effective way than the contest?

If not now, when?  If not us, who?

Namaste

[laughingwillow]

Btw, I do listen to the beatles on a regular basis. (This morning its the White Album.) However, I believe there was a profound change in the Beatles music after they were introduced to the active sacrament.

Imo, the evolution of personal consciousness brought on by the consumption of an active sacrament is clearly audible in the music of the Beatles from about the time Rubber Soul was released. And for that reason, any discussion of ultimate truth, especially using the Beatles as an example, is incomplete without expounding on the "true" catalyst of their evolution as humans and musicians, imo.

"The Present," concentrates on truth as it pertains to the Beatles before they discovered psychedelics, and ignores the quantum leap of understanding the boys from Liverpool undoubtedly experienced with the help of active sacrament, imo.

You want to save the world? A mental picture is worth a thousand words, brah.....

lw

[Jethro Tull]

Actually, there is an extensive section about drugs in The Present starting on page 141.
Further reading leads you to a section about psychedelic drugs on page 144.
Check out the section from roughly page 141-145 and let me know what you think, especially about the commentary on drugs like LSD which bring us into the present.

And yes, Rubber Soul and onward is my favorite period of The Beatles music.  

[JRL]

My favorite Beatles era is 1962-1970!!!!!

With or without LSD their music is a revelation, a gift from the universe and will live forever.
200 songs recorded= 200 timeless gems, they are the Beethovens, Bachs, Mozarts of my generation.

[laughingwillow]

So, I took the time to get on another machine and  go back and check out the parts you mentioned above.

The author appears to know the mind of Albert Hoffmann, but I find confusion and ignorance in the authors comments. The author has no patent on the truth, imo. While reading "the present," I get my monthly fill of pop culture references in a few short paragraphs and little else. I'm glad to see you have connected with this particular works. Unfortunately it rings few bells for me.

There is more truth one can learn from life through the simple act of cutting a live flower and watching it wither and die. (I personally have a tough time killing plants.)

lw

[laughingwillow]

Back to the topic at hand......

The book you are quoting from mentions fear in connection with psychedelic substances and then explains how fear distorts the understanding of truth and therefore should be shunned.

I disagree. The psychedelic substances mentioned are holy sacraments to me and fear in this context is something to overcome, not something to be avoided.

lw

[Amomynous]

I disagree. The psychedelic substances mentioned are holy sacraments to me and fear in this context is something to overcome, not something to be avoided.  lw

What he said. If anything "negative" comes up in a session -- fear, negativity, confusion, discomfort of any kind -- it has to be processed. For me, personally, this more-or-less defines the serious use of psychedelic medicines. I'm not saying that people need to use them seriously -- if they just want to party of have fun that's OK by me -- but you get out of it what you put into it, and there are things in life that they can help you experience that you're not going to experience unless you put in some hard work.  

I had a very deep session a few weeks ago, and I'm still processing the lessons today. It wasn't fear, really -- fear isn't my thing -- but we all have things we need to work through.

This is not to say that the plants can't be used in the simple, pure experiential worship of the divine; I think that's one of their highest uses. But even if your intention is to simply sit in the presence of the truth, if something comes up you have to process it. To do otherwise is to ignore our relative, personal truths. As for the appropriate way of "processing," that's something that we each need to come up with for ourselves. I have a fairly clear understanding that works for me, but other people may do things differently.

[laughingwillow]

Right on, amom.

Btw, paranoia seems to be a by-product of the lsd experience. Consuming this specific sacrament over an extended period of time with large groups of like minded pranksters has been known to do strange things to people. However, that paranoia is to be acknowledged and overcome, imo. Otherwise, one may be left with feelings and conclusions such as the author of the book in question appears to embrace.

I'd like to hear a little more about that mondo-session you experienced awhile back. Please?

lw