recreation or shamanistic work?

[fractal enchantment]

Hey was jsut wondering how many people out there use La Pastora for certain shamanic/magical/entheogenic purposes vs. purely recreational purposes?? Do you guys(or girls) have any specific rituals.

 I always take a shamanic approach to my workings with her, although I will admit in my past I have had a few experiences that I would call recreational. Usually now before i smoke or quid I sit down and do a bit of beathwork and hold an intention, even if its just nothing more than for her to guide my explorations.. sometimes I will light a candle or 2 if I am not plannign on going too deep and listen to either very mellow music or silence...

 I have also been using low doses once and a while to aid in meditations, but still I will talk to my plant and ask her for whatever beofre hand.

 Lately I have been using various flowers and herb oils from my garden such as lavender and peppermint with sage for a makeshift alter and was thinking about some annointing oils jsut to make the experience more magical. I like to think of my ritual as the car i will be driving into the other world :wink: ...

 Also VERY interested in weather or not ppl use her to HEAL, and what are youre methods/ thoughts on this approach to her?

[fractal enchantment]

really? noone else here works with this plant?

[boomer2]

IT was Jonathan Ott who originally coined the term, "Recretional Use."

He has since change that word to ludible, from the Latin word "ludere" to play or to be playful.  Under that interpretation, the  word can also signify religious use.  Since religion can also imply playful.

He did that to remove the negative drug connotation from the use of the term "Recreational drug use."

Shamanic use of such plants in a native setting implies a healing ceremony.  No Indians take healing plants to find God or to see God.

It is only those if the Western Civilizations who take such plants to see or talk to God.

Salvia is a sacred plant to the Mazatec Indians surrounding the region of the Mexican State of Oaxaca.

Also, the Mazatec do not smoke the leaves of Salvia. They chew them in pairs of 12-13 pairs of leaves for a 2 hour vigil.  And they do not make extracts as sold across America by herbal companies on the internet.  They have chewed them for a few thousand years so there must be a reason why they do so in that manner.

boomer2

[Amomynous]

Also, the Mazatec do not smoke the leaves of Salvia. They chew them in pairs of 12-13 pairs of leaves for a 2 hour vigil.

I do not think this is totally accurate. Like smoking, the chewing of quids may be  a "modern invention." Based upon the literature I've read (mostly Jerry Valdez' stuff) the way that it is taken indigenously is to squeeze the juice from many leaves into a suspension and then to drink it. Salvinorin is absorbed by the stomach inefficiently at best (and some data suggest not at all), so this isn't a good way to do it unless you have more-or-less unlimited quantities (the way the Mazatec do). Perhaps they occasionally chew the leaves, but usually the suspension is prepared.

Quid chewing is the best way for a westerner with limited supplies to recreate the traditional experience as much as is possible.

[fractal enchantment]

yes, while this is all interesting and useful information.. it doesnt really answer my question. I am aware of how the mazatec people use la pastora traditionally, what I was wondering is how YOU personaly incorperate her into youre life/spiritual practices. Do you grow her? do you have rituals? etc.
 
 I understand if youre rituals are personal and dont wish to share, I myself have some rituals which very personal.

 I have been growing her for almost a yr now and have enjoyed every minute of it. I also agree with what you said boomers, about the use of the term "recreational". . Healing can be a recreational activity as well as spiritual, I think they can be one and the same.
 
Lately I have been incorperating ambient soundscape type of music into my salvinorin A experiences. i sit in the dark with a candle lit and sit back and focus only on the music and wait until my "boundries" behind the eyelids drop away, and that strange alien geometric landscape that forms right in the early stages becommes apparent. If I have music, the music sculps it into form.. then I sort of travel through the whole thing like its a membrane of sorts, into a completely other world full of visionary landscapes and other beings, portals etc.. and its the salvia gravity that pulls me there..

 My main interst right now in experiencing salvia this way is that I literally merge with the music. The sound flows out my sterio and paints the trip into being. I merge with the machine, become mind and technology at the same time. My sterio is my alter and i dress it with white sage leaf and lavander both from my garden and sometimes burn opium insence, I have a few crystals which i attune with before hand and play my didgeridoo.

 I guess the ritual is like the merging of archetypes on one level. The human as bio computer on one end, with the machine on the other, and the leaves act as the outreach program from the gaian collective to pull it all together. My intent is evolution, although I always ask for healing. I think that 2012 is happening right now and a big part of it will have to do with technology, which is neutral but being used for all kinds of evils right now in this "story called history", but we can take over as writers and paint our own pictures..

 Sorry, bear with me here, im pretty stoned :smoke2: , and not sure if this is making sense :lol:  . I just feel that we need to start making things up to get things going in the times we are in. Not like lying to eachother, but just allowing for full creativity in all aspects and maybe even allowing ourselves to believe in new, magical mythologies and stories that we create out of the archetypical world.This is how we will crush the evil empire, not through acts of more war, but by really BELIEVING in the magic of story, and of hope, and inspiration, determination, creation, love and being to the point where we live them.   Part of this was also sang to me by 3 pixies that came to durring a mushroom experience and told me we need to create "a new mythology" to save the planet.

 Anyway back to the rituals.. I believe that we are becomming the machine, and that the machine is the next extension of nature so I am interested in the merging of biological and silicon based intelligence..some might say im jsut triping out, but I think its much more than that, I think my cognitive experiene IS actually being driven by the machine, tot he point, where neurologically, the output from the machine and my biocomputer merge and become one. If you are familiar with rupert sheldrake and morphic reasonance, than what effects would experiments such as these have on the morphic fields??

[salviasurface]

First of all, since this is my first post here, I would just like to say hello to all...

Now, down to business though I started using Salvia somewhat recreationally, I quickly transitioned to using her much more for exploring subconcious and learning more about myself, as well as using her for inspiration for philosophical thinking. I suppose that's somewhat shamanistic.

I have never used Salvia for physical healing though. Maybe I will give it a try at some point in time.

[CarlosTanner]

I used salvia for several years before finding ayahuasca.
My ritual included being by myself, but with someone nearby to talk to afterwards.  I always smoked the leaves or extract, never having fresh leaves for quid.  I smoked in a dark room or at night outside, and with some background sounds, like the sounds of nature, or some soft repetitive music like fela kuti.  I said prayers to Salvia and stated my intentions, which were usually to learn.
I had powerful experiences, and having someone nearby to talk to helped me remember them, but now that I work with ayahuasca, I feel that salvia is very difficult to work with, smoked at least, for the time period is too short.  It is a great way to experience other dimensions and get to know a plant spirit, as I feel that salvia is perhaps the most powerful plant spirit there is, but in terms of healing others, I have found that ayahuasca is far superior.  I should mention, though, that I study with authentic ayahuasca shamans, and with the salvia, I was always on my own, which definitely is a big difference.

[Amomynous]

yes, while this is all interesting and useful information.. it doesnt really answer my question. I am aware of how the mazatec people use la pastora traditionally, what I was wondering is how YOU personaly incorperate her into youre life/spiritual practices. Do you grow her? do you have rituals? etc.

Well, I rarely use Salvia anymore, but the last few times I used it was pretty simple: At night, alone, some fresh leaves chewed amongst the trees....very immanent, very earthy, very real...

But I've also used it in other ways. A strong tincture in conjuction with music can lead to a very different kind of experience: very ethereal, very transcendent, very "unreal". Music and sound relate very strongly to the experience. Different musics -- be they the music of crickets or hightech aural landscapes -- create different stories.

[strider]

Strictly for Spiritual exploration , I can't imagine salva for entertainment or just to get stoned .

The only preparation is making sure my life Insurance is current , she is one h*ll of a ride !

[X. Torris]

I can't imagine salva for entertainment or just to get stoned

Me neither.  But then I can't see how salvia can be used as an aid to meditation, either.  And I personally find the experience far too wrenching and disorienting to really consider it a preferable means of spiritual exploration.

I don't really know why I use salvia, which is like once or twice a year at most nowadays.  I guess I'd have to say that, once it's all over, my personal reality has been firmly put into perspective with regards to consensus reality.  I guess that could be considered spiritual, but it's really more of a brain check.  Maintenence, y'know.   :e_biggrin:

[strider]

And I personally find the experience far too wrenching and disorienting to really consider it a preferable means of spiritual exploration.

Torris , you must be smoking salvia , not sure if you have ever quided , totally different trip . Mild and soothing , easy to meditate with , no break through into salvia land though .