The Present

[laughingwillow]

Fear is a deterrent until overcome, imo.

But you say fear and love are the two ways to get on the path toward truth-seeking.

I'm not sure how fear gets one on the path mentioned through fear unless its in the context of the related adrenaline rush.  :cool2

lw

[Jethro Tull]

I'm not sure how fear gets one on the path mentioned through fear unless its in the context of the related adrenaline rush.

Well, I guess the best way to describe how is to describe how it happened for me.  I was put on the path of truth seeking through my own fear.  The battle within my mind.  I'll give a short story without extreme detail.

Spiritually reborn through psychedelics, found peace of mind in just being.  Thought i was completely enlightened.
Some time later, had an "epiphany" while staring at a giant cross that overlooks my campus.
Began to fear judgment.  Began to fear sinning.  Read about the seven deadly sins, started fearing them in my mind.
I felt I was being tested constantly.  I feared my future.  I feared God.
I didn't stop at just accepting a life of fear, it didn't seem right.  I wanted to check things for myself.

I began to worry immensely, feeling like I had made many big mistakes in the past.  I almost started going to church to make up for my sins.  Just before I had all but given in to my fear of judgment, came across "The Present."  It brought much realization to my life, especially relating to past experiences.  I saw my fear for what it is, a creation of the mind.  There is only one battle.  The battle inside yourself.  I overcame my fear through much trouble, the mind did everything it could to attempt to trick me.

By allowing the truth to manifest in my subconscious, I realized my true path.  I was never fully enlightened, and never will be.  My fear proved that was true.  "The Present" helped me overcome my fear.  The truth became self-evident to me (through much realization), and I have been fighting off the mind's illusions with the sword of truth.  It's getting better all the time; the mind's influence is disappearing.  I am on the path of truth seeking, for eternity.  These forums help the truth manifest in my consciousness by elaborating on the truth.  Every post helps.

Maybe my personal testimony will clarify the way fear can put you on the path of truth seeking.
Love is the other way, the more favorable way.
Love is what I'm giving to you.

[laughingwillow]

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

As far as seeking truth, what about curiosity and the human drive to go further? Neither love nor fear would seem to be blazing that path.

Is it not possible you were truly curious and managed to overcome your fears in the process of walking your path? (See my first truth above.)

lw

[Jethro Tull]

A very interesting point, lw.

I've never really thought about it that way.  I think that drive to progress is part of our subconscious mind, our intuition.  It can be hidden away by our conscious mind by illusions of fear.  I cannot deny that it might have been possible that curiosity helped me manage to overcome my fears.  However, I am now even more curious than I was before overcoming my fears.  Now that the illusion of fear has dissipated, my intuitive unconscious will to progress further and learn from others is driving me down my path of seeking the truth.

As the conscious mind disappears, the past and the future disappear.  I am on the path of truth seeking, and the truth is always in the present moment.  I live in the present; constantly amazed by my surroundings.  The curiosity to learn seems to grow every moment, as life becomes more mysterious with each new day.

Can you explain how your most recent post relates to your first truth?  I couldn't easily draw a connection.

[laughingwillow]

You now admit that curiosity may have been a driving factor in your growth. However, up until I made my last post, you were quite certain that fear was the motivating force.

I contend we humans have a blind spot in our perception. And that blind spot (an inability to see oneself objectively) must be dealt with on this path, imo.

Music, lyrics and active sacraments are also important to me on my path. However, consuming a sacrament and listening to recorded music is a far cry from the experience of live music, the sacrament and 10,000 of your closest friends going up at the same time.

lw

[Jethro Tull]

I feel that curiosity is somewhat of a driving factor in all human growth.  However, fear clouds this drive, and sometimes completely hides it.  Fear was the motivating force for me to overcome my mind and let curiosity flow endlessly.  I am now overflowing with curiosity to seek the truth, and there is no fear to cloud the drive.

I see what you mean.  We must see ourselves in the big picture of life.  It is a vital step to accepting the truth.

Were you able to open "The Present?"

[laughingwillow]

Still no luck in opening The Present.

lw

[laughingwillow]

Maybe you could post a few relevant pages?

Thanks.

lw

[kosmo]

I think that "the Present", as a personal statement of the individual who wrote it, was a worthwhile effort for that individual; but only if it was recognized as a beginning place for a search for truth that never ends. It might also be a starting place for other people of a similar type; especially those looking for someone to give them a clue or two that they haven't discovered elsewhere.

Discursively, we may only approximate what is the Truth. I tried to put that idea in a haiku:

"Truth is in silence!"
Please ignore what I just said
(Truth is in silence)

Another problem I have with someone writing to expound "the truth" is the whole notion that one person can "tell" another person what it is. Truth must be assimilated holistically - mind, body (feeling), spirit; and in finite beings, there are limits to how much can be assimilated.

A true teacher of Truth will never say he has it. He or she will lead the seeker to the essential attitude of knowing he doesn't know, and then shining a light on ways and means that lead out of not knowing. But the work has to be done by the seeker. And this work is never finished.

What seems to be missing from "The Present" are hints that it is a shabby cloth covering a crown of many jewels. What's missing is nuance, humor, poetry!

Truth is not relative. It is perfect, and it is infinite. We only approach it relatively, and all our finite notions about it are incomplete and partial. Yet, we must have it, some of us, and so onward to infinity!

[Jethro Tull]

The quest for the truth is never-ending, one must always seek.
The author never says he "knows" the truth; he says it is self-evident for him in the present.

Some direct quotes from the book, as requested:

"Hammer or nail: In the past, you had to choose between being the hammer or the nail. Naturally, most people would choose to be the hammer, even if the beast was holding it, especially if the beast was holding it.  Just recently, science has offered people another choice, but it is cold and incomplete. Science and religion have been the only two choices people have had, so they had to choose one, even though neither gives people the ultimate truth they are seeking.

New choice: This book offers a third option for the first time. It is new revelations of the truth that are a combination of science, religion, art, philosophy, past and present, common sense and everything else that reveals the truth. With the new truth, you do not have to be the hammer or the nail; you can be something much more and get rid of the hammer and nail altogether.

Everyone can be right: For the first time people have a third choice that incorporates the others. A choice that does not require them to give up their current belief system. It says everyone is right, if you know how to see the truth. It has to be the way, because any other way would cause conflict not peace.

It also makes sense and gives people a complete picture of the ultimate truth. You do not have to give up religion and science to embrace the third way, you get into them more. You just get into everything more. The present encompasses everything.

It is all true. If you know what the truth is, you can see it in everything."

The main purpose of this book is this:

"This book is not a good read.  It is not meant to entertain you.  It is meant to transform you from a unfulfilled mortal animal, into a fulfilled immortal spiritual being.  If you want to be entertained, read a good work of fiction."

It does not reveal the truth; it attempts to help one find it within themselves.  It should be "recognized as a beginning place for a search for truth that never ends."

[kosmo]

"New choice: This book offers a third option for the first time. It is new revelations of the truth that are a combination of science, religion, art, philosophy, past and present, common sense and everything else that reveals the truth. With the new truth, you do not have to be the hammer or the nail; you can be something much more and get rid of the hammer and nail altogether."

...for the first time? C'mon now, there is nothing new in "The Present" that hasn't been "said" by many, in many ways, over a long period of time. Calling it revelatory is your personal view, unless you can point out to me what part of it is.

[Jethro Tull]

...for the first time? C'mon now, there is nothing new in "The Present" that hasn't been "said" by many, in many ways, over a long period of time. Calling it revelatory is your personal view, unless you can point out to me what part of it is.

Well, "The Present" takes all those things that have been said many, many times in many different ways, and brings them all together.  It reveals that all of the past prophets were essentially saying the same thing.  The whole book is new; it seeks unity.  Although the author may be touching on the same subjects that have been touched on over a long period of time, he seeks to bring them all together to eliminate the mind's illusion of separation by showing us what is 'most likely to be' true beyond a reasonable doubt (using evidence and logic), and what is a myth (un-true).

You offer some great input, kosmo.  I'm curious to read your opinions regarding "The Present."  =)

[laughingwillow]

Hey, jt.

I'm still a little unclear about a couple of things......

You posted early on that you stumbled onto a website a few months back that changed your life. I went to the site and could not open the files. You told me that you would talk to the website owner to see if anything could be tweaked to allow for universal viewing. Correct?

I'm also getting the impression that you are the author of the material that you stumbled upon a few months ago that changed your life.  :bconf:

lw

[Jethro Tull]

I did talk to the author, and these were his words regarding reformatting the content:

"That has not been a big problem because most of the world can open Microsoft word. Everyone can open it if I save in text format but then there are not drawings and pictures that are needed, also I cannot work on it in any other form and I work on it everyday.

I do not know what .xml is or how to work with it. I am not very computer savvy. You just have to tell people to find a computer that has word. I do not want to complicate my life, for just a small percent of people if I do not have too."

Like I said, if you can provide me with your e-mail and a desired format I can try to send it to you myself.  If you have any other suggestions, I'll can do what I can to help you receive the book.

I am not the author of "The Present."

[laughingwillow]

So, you aren't the author of the work in question? I guess I'll pass on the offer of enlightenment, as I'd prefer not go give my email addy to strangers. Btw, I'm part of that tiny fraction of the world that doesn't have microsoft word on my machine.

lw