Illegal Botanicals (U.S.A.)

[Anonymous]

O ok man. I'm sorry. Let's stop fighting you seem like a nice guy. My bad.

[dogbane26]

Actually im not sure myself of the exact  legal status of some of the above mentioned seeds/plants but I think some of them might not even be illegal.  

I don't think Catha edulis seeds are illegal in the US.   Im not sure about the plants though.    

It would be nice if we had something to follow but then again the government prob wouldnt provide us with that since it would be like saying: ok this is a legal drug plant to grow, this one isn't..etc,   but dont use this one that is for....  

I think Poppy seeds are legal but they used to be sold strictly for cooking purposes only and not cultivation?   Why would a garden company be selling them then?  

I mean many vendors sell them but I dont think they are illegal until they are planted.  

Tabernanthe iboga im not sure if the seeds are illegal or not?    

Cannabis seeds are illegal but you arn't going to get in alot of trouble , you will probably just receive a letter from customs or else they will just confiscate them and not tell you since you should know they are illegal.    

It is like if your  porn video/magazine all of a sudden you couldnt find in your room, would you ask your mom or dad if they took it?  

It is like asking the post office why didn't I get my cannabis seeds in the mail?  

Actually i heard once in a cannabis magazine it could happen where the government will allow you to get the seeds and then 6-12 months down the road they will come knocking at your door seeing if you have any illegal flowering plants which they can then bust you for.  

Lambo used to have good information but then again they wernt the law so i dont know for sure?  

Coca seeds i heard were legal it was the plants and the derivatives of the leaves...such as salts..etc that were illegal.  

Im not sure if this just meant the species; Erythroxylum coca?   You know there is at least one other species ( im not going to name it here)    which is reasonable as a cocaine producing species.  

Im not sure if the law just bans the E. coca species for cultivation?  

I think it does but im not sure?  

Don't think im advocating anything anybody please.  

I am questioning the laws myself.   I wish we knew what we could or couldnt grow.  

All I can say is grow whatever you want but don't grow these three:  

Cannabis sativa, Papaver somniferum( Poppy) and Lophophora williamsii( Peyote).    

Also don't grow mushrooms in jars since they can be tested to see if they are Psilocybe.

Police know what the above plants look like.    They arnt as smart should I say when it comes to other plants since they look so much like our familar house plants.

I always wondered if god/nature made cannabis so indistinguishable from other plants?  

My saying is: It doesn't take a botanist to identify Cannabis, just like it doesnt take an economist to know that walmart pays its employees below the poverty line.   It doesn't take a chemist to know that partially hydrogenated oils are trans fats.  

 It doesnt take a.... could make a blog based on common sense things applied to different disciplines.  

Cops arn't botanists/ or even competant horticulturists so its highly unlikely they will know you have an iboga or khat plant growing in your yard.   Im not saying that means its ok to grow illegal drug plants.  

Hey it would be nice if we knew exactly what was illegal or isnt?  

Ok it is a given cannabis, opium, peyote are illegal but what about some other plants?  

Can we claim ignorance of the law?

Maybe I was wrong before.   Maybe police departments require their officers take a course in drug plant taxonomy!   BOT420 or BIO420

[Anonymous]

That was a really good post!

Got a source for that "police take a botany class" reference?

[Stonehenge]

Actually, the laws on poppy cultivation aren't that clear either. Lots of people grow them in their gardens. I think where they draw the line is when someone processes them to extract opium or other opiates. Lancing a pod would be evidence of that but they would have to prove who did it. A lot of plants are in a gray area. They speak of mown poppy straw which one would assume means the plants have been harvested in some way. Just leaving them grow may be ok. But then you never know sometimes.

[Anonymous]

That's why I argue that all plants are (should be) legal as long as you have no intent to produce drugs from them.

I think you'd be safe with growing all the illegal botancials as long as you didn't actually produce anything with them.

[Stonehenge]

That's why I argue that all plants are (should be) legal as long as you have no intent to produce drugs from them.

I think you'd be safe with growing all the illegal botancials as long as you didn't actually produce anything with them.

That is not correct. L williamsii and a few others like marijuana are specifically illegal and can not be grown without legal problems. Again, you are drifting away from talking about your own experiences into encouraging people to do illegal things. I know you were just giving your opinion but you have to be careful about telling people it's safe to do something that you do not know is safe.

I didn't say you can grow all the poppies you want and do anything you like with them and be safe. I pointed out a gray area in the law and even then I said "you never know"

[Anonymous]

I'm not telling people to do it, I just think risk of getting caught is low and the risk of getting in trouble is even lower.. IF you were only growing the botanicals that is, and had no intent to ingest anything.

[VajraPirate]

Actually the laws on poppy cultivation in the Us are very clear. It is absolutely 100% illegal to cultivate opium poppy. In fact the only legal use of any for of poppy is the culinary use of the seed. If you germ the seed,  or possess the plant matter (intent matters not) you have already broken the law. Even for craft purposes, they are still illegal.

The law is clear on this matter, the enforcement of it, however, is not.

2 years ago a person living 40 miles from me was charged with possesion of P. som, when his house was raided and dried pods were found.

[VajraPirate]

The risk of getting caught cultivating illegal plants is actually very high, especially if you take into account the penalties for manufacture.

Please stop saying otherwise, Teo. Your advice/opinions could potentially be putting people at risk.

[Anonymous]

When I saw you posted in this thread I was a little worried.

But that was a perfectly reasonable post.

Thank you, I hope we can continue acting nice to each other in the future.

If you'd like me to edit a certain post, please PM me and I'd be glad to do so.

[Stonehenge]

Vajra, this debate has raged on many boards over the years. You aren't completely wrong and you aren't completely right. What the law is depends not only on what the statute says but also on how the courts have interpreted it and on patterns of law enforcement. There are many laws on the books which are a dead letter.

Take for example laws on cohabitation which are still on the books in many states. That dates back to a more prudish era. They haven't been enforced in years except in cases of minors. Even then they seldom enforce them unless there is a complaint. Does that mean it's illegal to have your girlfriend who is over 21 move in with you? The law clearly states that it is. However, if they tried to arrest someone in that situation, it would not stand up in court. They can not selectively enforce the law. It either applies to all or to none.

So it is with the poppy laws. Thousands or perhaps milions of people are growing them. Garden centers sell packs of seed and you can get seeds in the grocery store that will sprout. No one is being arrested for it absent evidence of drug use. That would include lancing the pods and collecting latex, making tea or extracting from them. I'm willing to bet the person you mentioned was arrested for something other than poppy cultivation.

That doesn't mean it's perfectly legal. It means it's in a gray area but if they try to arrest and charge you for merely growing them, the case will likely be thrown out of court. That's why they don't bother.

[Anonymous]

Ya dude!  :cool2

[dogbane26]

There is alot a person could say but im pretty sure why many plants originally became illegal and because of this some still remain that way:  

Religion.  

They say to keep religion out of politics and schools well they shouldn't of forced it on many indigenous peoples  but we can't change that now, we also can't change which plants became illegal as a result of that or were illegal in the past but arn't now ( Yes there are some I will explain) .

There is a saying that sometimes a person needs to know the history behind something to avoid ignorance.  

I learned this saying in a philosophy class but its so true for alot of things.    

Im not saying anyone on here is ignorant but many other people are when it comes to drug plant history.

Ok plants were illegal in the past but arnt now?  You might say that cant be true.    (Most of these were Solanaceaous plants such as Mandrake, Datura, Belladonna, Henbane..etc)  

Anyone know of any Nightshades/ Solanaceae illegal today? I sure don't.

They may not of been illegal then as we think of the word illegal today  but guess what, get caught growing them and you would be accused of being a witch and burned at the stake.  

Nowadays they won't kill you for growing illegal plants they will just throw you in jail.    

See this was religion's fault.  If you grew them you were a witch/ devil worshipper and bad.  


Similar things can be said when the Spanish went to South america and forced the Indians to convert to their Catholic religion,
they said the indians habit of chewing coca leaves was of the devil..etc.

I think they said the same about Indians in Mexico and Texas that used peyote.  

Still it was based on religion like they said about european americans who used solanaceaous plants.  

If religion has no place in schools or politics then it doesnt have a place in a persons garden is the way i see it.  

Im not saying religion is bad but people need to realize it isnt good to force anything.  

I think Jainism which is a religion itself ( i know that doesn't sound good talking about religion)  would agree with this.

I dont remember which principle or maybe it was Taoism?   One of those two would agree that non-force is a good thing.  

Christianity on the other hand people thought was ok to use to just force everyone to convert to it and using  certain drug plants was of the devil.

They obviously didnt follow the religion properly and almost sound like how Paul originally was ( he was a roman) who used to not be a christian and persecuted people who were christian.  

I know this is the other way around how The Spanish when they invaded south america  persecuted people who wern't christian but its the same thing.

[Anonymous]

If religion has no place in schools or politics then it doesnt have a place in a persons garden is the way i see it.

 :e_biggrin:


Taoism is the one your thinking about  :tea:

[boomer2]

"'Shrooms" ~ Psilocybe Mushrooms (Spores/Mycelium)

"Peyote" ~ Lophophora williamsii (Seeds and Plants)

"Khat" ~ Catha edulis (Seeds and Plants)

"Opium Poppy" ~ Papaver somniferum (Seeds)

"Iboga" ~ Tabernanthe iboga (Seeds and Plants)

"Coca" ~ Erythroxylum coca (Seeds and Plants)

"Marijuana" ~ Cannabis (Seeds)

While this is indeed a strange post and I see no reason it should have been posted, I want to make note that the seeds of pot (marijuana) are illegal to possess, but the spores for mushrooms are not and neither are the seeds for Papaver somniferam (Poppy seeds) which can legally be purchased under the brand name of Dutch Blue from any Bar and Restaurant Supply firm listed in the yellow pages of phone directories in most major metropolitan cities in the USA and throughout most of the world.

You listed spores and mycellium also, however, spores are only illegal in California, Idaho and Georgia.  And thanks to a recent FBI study and published paper, according to them there is no psilocine or psilocybine in the mycelia of magic shrooms, so the mycelia can legally be send across the continental USA and not be illegal.

boomer2