Who listens to jazz?

[Stonehenge]

Nowdays a "bass" means a bass fiddle. I remember when, at least in my neck of the woods, there were several instruments called bass. There was a bass clarinet, bass sax and a few others. Now they call them baritone. Maybe that was the correct term all along but we called them bass, bass drum and so on. I use to play an instrument but it was long long ago. No musician here.

And back then we called singers, singers. Today they are all vocalists. "so and so is doing the vocals" Some singers today sound more like they are shouting or talking than singing.

Yeah, Coltrane is one of my favorites. I like all kinds of jazz and jazz tinged things like blues, cajun and zydeco. It's funny how they put most of the jazz on at night

[JRL]

Personally I use the terms double bass, string bass, or upright for bass violin, and bass guitar for what I play.

Baritone and bass saxes are different, the one Doc plays in Tower of Power is the bari, bass saxes are quite rare.

Coltrane is one of the great artists of any type IMO. His music cuts to the very core of what it means to be human. A Love Supreme is a masterpiece. Another one that I love is the romantic, sensual "Ballads"
Coltrans plays for lovers indeed.

[Stonehenge]

I didn't know there was a difference between a bass sax and a baritone. We called 'em bass also bass clarinet.

A love supreme is top notch, I have to say.

[JRL]

Here is a chart of the whole sax family.

sax link

Bass clarinet is a great instrument. Great players of it that come to mind are Eric Dolphy, Benny Maupin and Donald Garret.

[Stonehenge]

You are a walking encyclopedia of music.

Another great jazz musician we haven't discussed yet is Chic Corea (sp?). He plays the keyboard, I believe. He comes up with some great compositions and unique sounds.

What do you think of Wayne Shorter? There is a tribute album out called the latin side of Wayne Shorter. If you haven't heard it yet, do so. It's a do not miss kind of thing and will help explain why I like latin jazz a lot. Other great latin style artists include Paquito de Rivera and others that I've mentioned.

[Stonehenge]

Do you mind if I edit your post so it's not stretched out to the side so much? It was fine but now it's wierd.

[JRL]

Everybodys post are, or did I do that. Feel free to edit.

Chic is one of the giants for sure. He is out on tour right now with the classic lineup of his early fusion band , Return to Forever.

Wavne Shorter, words fail me. He is one of the most vital, expressive, personal, quirkey jazz men still alive. Remember the afore mentioned Joe Zawinul? Wayne and Joe were the co-leaders of my favorite fusion band Weather Report. They are a must listen. Most people like the middle period stuff with Jaco Pastorious on bass the best. A good place to start is Heavy Weather.

Every good musician I know has an encyclopedic  knowledge of music, Thats the school you learn in and the pallete you draw from.

[senorsalvia]

Yeah, Correa is sublime...  How's about the 70's stuff with the John McGlauflin (sp??) Group??  The stuff when I think it was Billy Cobham drumming??....  To me, that genre seemed to be what 'fusion' was all about....

[Stonehenge]

Yeah, fusion is a great kind of music too. It's sort of jazzy in a way. I like some in the heading techno pop but not all.

I heard some Willie Nelson last night. He might not fit in any of your little boxes, JRL. He is part jazz, part blues and part country. He isn't in my top tier of favorites but he is very good.

Post edited. Somehow your link got a mile long. Here is how to do it next time someone has a link that goes on and on

[ url=http://www.whatever.com]sax link[/url]

I put a space after the first [ so you could see the code. You don't use any spaces within the [ and ]. The words "sax link" or whatever you put just before the [/url] will be what appears and can be clicked on.

[JRL]

I am more into big boxes I think. Classification is useful for communication ie. "On this section of the tune play disco 16ths, then swing the bridge"

I think the best players trancend the boxes, its all music. Duke Ellinington said "there are two kinds of music, good and bad".


Willie is so great on so many levels. But those elements, blues and jazz are part of the country tradition for sure. Hank Willians(the first) learned from an old black bluesman Teetot, and you ave to go no further than Bob Wills to hear the jazz.

[Stonehenge]

"there are two kinds of music, good and bad"

I like that. I don't like boxes all that much. They seem limiting and sometimes arbitrary. I have to agree they have their uses. They help us communicate, as you said. Boxes have a defined length, breadth and height. Putting something in a box implies they must conform to those specs. Most things do not fit that well. It's like the magician's trick where his assistant gets in a box but her head, hands and feet stick out. The people who love little boxes chop off anything that sticks out.

You can say there is some jazz and blues in country music. Willie has country roots but he doesn't fit in that box either. It think it's more helpful to say something has influences, rather than saying what it "is". Willie has definite country influences and a few of his tunes really show that. But he can not be confined to any box, more to his credit.

I don't think we are arguing so much as discussing terms and the usefullness of terms. Many styles of music have multiple influences, IMO.

[JRL]

"But those elements, blues and jazz are part of the country tradition for sure"

I totally stand by that statement. I have known many country singers that feel a great connection to Ray Charles, in fact, the last country band I played with, Sticky Vicki and the Pines Cones, had a keyboard player that only sang Ray Charles tunes. But it goes further back than that, Jimmie Rodgers (white country) was a total bluesman, so much so that (Jimmie Rodgers (black bluesman) took his name.

You are the one that brought up the boxes, I basically have one big box that is incredibley full, with many things some identifyable some not so much. I think influences is what we are talking about here, like you said.

The catagories are helpful for people that sell music and maybe people that buy music. But I use labels everyday in my work, like the earlier examples.

Another thing I have noticed about boxes is that they help you make money. Like a band that is all the way biker, zydeco, jump blues, surf or whatever is an easier sell for better money than one that is eclectic. It gives the buyers a handle on promoting it and a targeted fan base. But that is more the concern of someone like myself rather than listeners.

Another take on this: Things like blues, funk and swing have trancended their boxes and becone descriptive terms of qualities of music that can turn up anywhere. So a country tune can be bluesy, a rock tune funky and a blues tune swinging. Again labels have their utility.

As far as Willie goes, I think he would tell you he is part of the country tradition, the crop right after guys like Lefty Frissel, Hank Williams, Hank Snow and Hank Thompson. If you listen to thses guys, they also have lots of blues and a bit of jazz in their music. Blues and country are parallel tracks leading from poor, rural southerners of either color. I think the old time country guys are part of a long line of white musicians with huge admiration for the genius of the African American people. I am also part of that tradition.

[Stonehenge]

""But those elements, blues and jazz are part of the country tradition for sure"

I totally stand by that statement. "

Is someone arguing with that? I don't see it. I think you have a lot of good points but tend to be authoritarian at times.

"As far as Willie goes, I think he would tell you he is part of the country tradition"

Lets see, I said "Willie has definite country influences and a few of his tunes really show that." It sounds like I'm saying about the same thing but you choose to argue with me. Some people won't let you agree with them.

Since it's bogging down into arguments maybe I should just shut up for now.

[JRL]

"I don't think we are arguing so much as discussing terms and the usefullness of terms. Many styles of music have multiple influences, IMO."

That's what I think, too.