Martial Arts

[fuzz]

For all those out there that practice or have questions about martial arts, here is a begining thread:)




I 'll start with an extract from a little book i am reading. A highly recommended book, short, crisp and to the point.

The book is "Inner Voyage of a Stranger". Pathways to a New Perception. 2002.
Written by Kenjiro Yoshigasaki, a Master in ki-aikido, direct line from the creator of aikido Morihei Ueshiba.
Publication: Werner Kristkeitz Verlag.

Part 3 : Perception

"Most people use two words to describe the inside of the body. Thought and feeling. This actually means words and non-words. Thoughts are words in our body, which may be pronounced or written, and feeling is something that is not a word but is recognisable and could eventually be expressed using words. Psychology has given the public the idea that by expressing your feelings you can maintain good psychological health. If you are interested in helping others, that idea may be a suitable one. On the other hand, you will be dependant on other people’s help by expressing your feelings to others.

However, if you are interested in living your own life, it is better not to express your feelings.
You must get back to the basic understanding that when body perception is expressed in words, it is called a feeling. By expressing it, you actually distort it because you associate it with some memory.

That is why the concept of feeling is useful to understand and eventually to help others but it is useless and harmful if applied to yourself. Furthermore, when you percieve inside your body, you will find it to be very rich like music or painting. It is much richer than feelings, which are only words. At the same time it is true that most people do not understand the richness of music or painting and just stick to words about them. You must learn to listen to your body just like listening to music or looking at art without interpreting with words."

If you'd like to have this homemade Samadhi image in full, click //http://manue23.blogs.psychologies.com/photos/uncategorized/empty_mind_2.jpg

[fuzz]

More from "Inner Voyage of a Stranger" de Kenjiro Yoshigasaki.

Part 5 : Reality

4 : what is respect.

"Many people confuse admiration with respect….
Respect means to observe yourself when you have contact with someone or something. First you will notice that you are hypocritical or prejudiced. You will also notice that it is impossible to understand others. There is always something that you do not understand. As a result your attitude changes. This is respect.

For exemple, you see a flower. If you think it is a flower, you have no respect for it. If you obeserve yourself, you will see your thoughts have no value and you will start to see the flower more attentively. You will also discover many things that you do not understand. Then respect for the flower is born."

[Danzick]

Many of the Chinese martial arts have an extensive herbalism component.  Traditionally,  plants have been used by martial arts practitioners for healing injuries, tonifying different systems, or correcting imbalances.  In my limited experience, I'm not aware of them being used to explore altered states of consciousness.  This seems odd, now that I think about it, because altered states of consciousness *are* explored by other means such as meditation.

[fuzz]

i have to say that i dont know enough about traditional chinese medecine. it is something i would like to learn more of; but if not everyone in that community used herbs for other things than healing, i am sure a part of the martial arts community uses herbs for shamanistic rituals.

but maybe i am confusing things, and i am more thinking of tibetain shamanisme, which of course has had a great influence on any martial arts, since they are very bouddhiste inspired.
about tibetan herbs, which have been very interesting to western scholars, check out this video page:
//http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=popefucker%2Btibet
there is an interesting one on tibetan medecine.
i HIGHLY recommend the one on Book of the Dead of the Tibetains; part 2. It is with Leonard Cohen voice and an amazing trip through the bardos, north india, and also comes with some very intense graphics.
(check out popefucker's collection of videos, one of the most impressing and esoteric that i have found on the net so far)



also, i  finally finished the book "Inner Voyage of a Stranger". Pathways to a New Perception. 2002.
Written by Kenjiro Yoshigasaki, a Master in ki-aikido, direct line from the creator of aikido Morihei Ueshiba, and teacher of the aikido teacher we have here.
Publication: Werner Kristkeitz Verlag.

It is a wonderful little book. extremely sharp and very concise. A first glance, it can appear as very simple truth yet, it is actually very deep truth which take a few life times at least to master. Kenjiro writes with a typically japanese clearness of mind, and leaves us with a true desire to sit down and work on ourselves, on a daily basis.
Truly inspiring, it is recommended to any students of the mind, and of application of martial arts philosophy in every day life.

As an hommage to him, and as a meditation, and also because the book is not put online yet (or else i have not found it), i have been copying and sharing a few passages.
here is the one for today:

Part 5 : Reality
9 : What is freedom ?

"People often think that freedom is to do what one wants without being controlled or influenced by others. This concept is wrong because it means that freedom does not exist. Anyone can see the fact that it is mpossible to do what one wants to do all the time. If everyone tries to do what he or she wants, they end up killing each other. True freedom is being free from one’s own thoughts, feelings, and desires. This is possible and if everyone is free, the world will be paradise.

The way to freedom starts by not influencing your feelings through words. First you must learn how to perceive inside your body without words. That means you must get rid of the notion of feeling because feeling is verbal expression of body perception. As long as you think in terms of feelings, you use words and words influence your body. You must also get rid of positive and negative words."

[TooStonedToType]

Many of the Chinese martial arts have an extensive herbalism component.  Traditionally,  plants have been used by martial arts practitioners for healing injuries, tonifying different systems, or correcting imbalances.  In my limited experience, I'm not aware of them being used to explore altered states of consciousness.  This seems odd, now that I think about it, because altered states of consciousness *are* explored by other means such as meditation.

I've heard it suggested the Vikings used fly-argaric mushrooms to induce their "beserk rage".  But otherwise not much on martial artist using plant induced altered states.  I've heard of martial artist attempting to enter altered states of conciousness, ki, "the zone" etc., though meditation, repetative exercises, physical pain, and stuff like that, but not spiritplants.  I would suggest that most psychedelic states induced by plants are not suited for developing combat skills.

[fuzz]

Toostoned wrote:
"I would suggest that most psychedelic states induced by plants are not suited for developing combat skills."
i'd have to disagree with this, as did the aikido teacher when we asked him (he's an older hippie, whos been there, done that ect).

Combat besides being a physical activity is also a psychological one. psychedelics if and when being used for that purpose can help to understand ones own's psychology better, which also means the other's psychology. therefore, if used for such a purpose, psychedelics could be very helpfull for combat skills.
but of course no magic pill would ever replace hard and long years of daily training;)

===================================
For today, here is a bit of the story of the Blue Eyed Barbarian, the son of a Indian King, who chose monkhood over governing a state.
If any of you amateurs of such litérature find technical mistakes in the writing, please, do help making it clearer and accurate by sharing your views and knowledge:)




Travelling across mountains, through winds and skies, he came from India to China to share a sutra which was until then unknown by the then established buddhists schools, Bodhidharma belongs to the Buddhist legend. Some writings give him up to 150 years, and even see him walking around India’s counry side after his death, a shoe in his hand.

For 7 years he sat in front of a wall, in a cave, practicing the wall meditation, that is sitting in zazen with no words or no outside contacts. On the 7th year, he fell alseep, and angry at himself  he pulled out his eyelid and threw it on the floor, creating the tea leaf to keep monks awake.
The 28th patriarch of buddhism, a direct line from the Buddha himself, the 1st Zen/Chan patriarch, a form of Mahayana buddhism, some call him the fundator of Kun Fu, the martial art practiced in Shaolin temples.

Here is a fine exemple of buddhist humor, in the legendary meeting between Bodhidharma and  the ruler of the time, Emperor Wu, an emperor who happened to be a devoted buddhist of the Liang Dynasty (around 520 on the gregorian calendar).

The emperor asks Bodhidharma:
 "What is the highest meaning of noble truth?"
"There is no noble truth." answers Bodhidharma.
The emperor then asked Bodhidharma:
 "How much karmic merit have I earned by ordaining Buddhist monks, building monasteries, having sutras copied, and commissioning Buddha images?"
"None."
The emperor out of patience with the Blue Eyed Barbarian then asked Bodhidharma:  
"Who is standing before me?"
"I don't know."

Links:
Bodhidharma in wiki:
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhidharma
Painting by Qiao Seng:
//http://www.zenguide.com/zenmedia/zen_buddhism_paintings_sale_give_away.cfm?startrow=6&status=
Article in french:
//http://manue23.blogs.psychologies.com/aventures_psychedeliques/2007/01/le_barbare_aux_.html

[Danzick]

Fuzz Wrote:
Combat besides being a physical activity is also a psychological one. psychedelics if and when being used for that purpose can help to understand ones own's psychology better, which also means the other's psychology. therefore, if used for such a purpose, psychedelics could be very helpfull for combat skills.
but of course no magic pill would ever replace hard and long years of daily training;)

Good points fuzz.  Beyond that, the internal martial arts work with energy flow in the body, body awareness, perceptual skills and many other things not directly related to combat.  These are areas that select use of spirit plants as tools might be useful.  I very much agree with Toostoned that for direct combat training, spirit plants probably would not be very useful and probably detrimental.  Somehow I don't think strike drills while pharmacologically enhanced is a good idea.

[jikuhchagi]

Fuzz,

No disrespect intented, but I've been doing martial arts for a long time, and one thing I have found, is we are all just way to full of self-importance and self-righteousness. :lol: We learn a little something suddenly we are preaching... :roll:

That said...

I think I would concur with TSTT, but I have to ask: Have you ever really practiced while in a psychedelic state? (I don't mean kata, or meditation, I mean sparring) I find it dubious at best, and irresponsible at worst to even think of it. And yeah, I have been there and yeah, I have done that. There is a huge difference between what you said about using psychedelics to acheive and understanding one's own or an other's psychology and acutally working on your skills while under the influence. You are confusing the two I think.

And please, your grasp of Zen is disturbing at best. Buddhist HUMOR? :roll:
There is much more in that koan exchange than humor. You would do well to consider that while doing your own meditation while facing a wall.

Still, I admire your enthusiasm.

[fuzz]

i never said anything about using psychedelics use WHILE doing bodily training.
you seem to have misinterpreted my words.

i can see that your understanding of zen and buddhism is much better and much deeper than mine indeed; i will therefore sit confortably and hopefully you can help  me by pointing to the enlightment you have discovered...

[jikuhchagi]

LOL! Come down from there!

[laughingwillow]

LOL Fuzz, meet jiku, jiku, fuzz...

.... hopefully you can help me by pointing to the enlightment you have discovered...

Why do I get the idea that you're only going to be looking at his finger, anyway?

Glad to have you back, jiku-bro.  

lw

[Satori]

LOL Fuzz, meet jiku, jiku, fuzz...

.... hopefully you can help me by pointing to the enlightment you have discovered...

Why do I get the idea that you're only going to be looking at his finger, anyway?

Glad to have you back, jiku-bro.  

lw

:roll:

[laughingwillow]

LOL Why the frown, Satori? You must not understand my point, but maybe I can do a better job in this post....

I believe that true enlightenment comes from within. On a certain level, any attempt by a person to "enlighten" another through words is bound to fail, or be understood superficially at best. For example, I see Jiku's initial posts as an offering of wisdom that the intended recipient has decided to shrug off as an insult while asking to be "enlightened" on the subject at hand.

Fear is a major stumbling block on this path, but not the only one. Conquer those fears and pride is sure to rear its perfectly ugly head....

lw

[laughingwillow]

Speaking of enlightenment on different levels. While preparing to crunch some numbers, I took a listen to a dead show featuring a song that has managed to affect me on many levels, depending on state of mind at the time of consumption. The dead scene has long been seen as "Desolation Row" by the vast majority of people who happen upon the scene. Perception is everything, imo, words mean little or nothing....


........They're spoonfeeding Casanova
To get him to feel more assured
Then they'll kill him with self-confidence
After poisoning him with words

And the Phantom's shouting to skinny girls
"Get Outa Here If You Don't Know
Casanova is just being punished for going
To Desolation Row"

Now at midnight all the agents
And the superhuman crew
Come out and round up everyone
That knows more than they do
Then they bring them to the factory
Where the heart-attack machine
Is strapped across their shoulders
And then the kerosene
Is brought down from the castles
By insurance men who go
Check to see that nobody is escaping
To Desolation Row

[jikuhchagi]

OK, leaving aside the issue that most traditional martial arts practioners for reason always turn out to be pompous, arrogant, self-righteous preaching bastards... oh wait, thats just me and 99% of the people I have dealt with over the last 12 years. Sorry Fuzz, but you sort of hit a nerve. I was trying to be funny but it probably came out a bit harsh and I shouldn't have lumped you in with us without getting to know you better.

That said, there are two things I will say and then shut TFU.

One: I've been studying Zen with a Korean Zen Master for a little over two years now, but my level of understanding and enlightenment could be written on the back of a pack of matches in BIG BOLD LETTERS. Or maybe one number: 0. However, if I have learned nothing else, its that the true Zen practitioner takes their practice more seriously than life and death. There is no room for humor, no room for playing around, no room for idle banter. Its serious as a heart attack.

Whether or not you give any credence to the Buddhist/Zen belief system or not, you should understand this level of seriousness (on the Zen side, anyways as there are many different forms of Buddhism). In the exchange that Bodhidharma had with the emperor, there was nothing intended to be humerous. This was dead cold, serious exchange and the responses given were clearly misunderstood by the emperor even though Bodhidharma was earnestly trying to answer to the best of his ability so that the emperor could understand that his efforts were pointless. From a Zen perspective, this might be viewed as a TRAGEDY, but never a comedy.

And LW is absolutely right about true enlightenment, from what I understand. From the Zen perspective, no one can save you but you. YOU have to do all the work. YOU have to figure it out. Thats why they can be quite brutal in thier efforts to help you understand. Ever hear about the 30 blows? Many koans include the possiblilty of you getting beat with a stick if you don't answer correctly. Only they don't tell you that there is no correct answer. :lol:

In closing:
"And here I sit so patiently, waiting to find out what price,
You have to pay to get out of going through all of these things twice.
But, Oh, MOMMA!, can this really be the end?
To be stuck inside of Mobile, with the Memphis Blues again..."