khat isolation

[jus407]

is it possible givin this information to isolate pure if not almost pure cathinone, as cathinone is a keto chemical

"A carbonyl carbon bonded to two carbon atoms distinguishes ketones from carboxylic acids, aldehydes, esters, amides, and other oxygen-containing compounds. The double-bond of the carbonyl group distinguishes ketones from alcohols and ethers. The simplest ketone is acetone (also called propanone)."

so if cathinone is ketoamphetamine then wouldnt it be possible to make a tea, then pour the tea into pure ether like ether alcohol (i forgot what its called but i believe it can be bough at a hardware store?)

btw im not asking to make an extraction like this just was wondering as it sounds interesting. just doing research, dont even have a plant but i would like one. there not ilelgal in america yet are they?

[RifeHeretic]

The plant's in a gray area. It is said the leaves are illegal because of the cathonine, yet there are stores which openly sell the plant, saying only the isolate is illegal.

If talking about khat, remember that it's not you that has/wants/is it

[jus407]

not quite sure what you mean at the end but i was wondering as im tring to find stuff to increase dopamine levels and khats a plant so it coul dbe asy to use fo rthat purpose (given the ingredients)

[Stonehenge]

Khat is illegal in USA though cops have no idea what it is. The only busts I've ever heard of were for selling it. The active ingredients tend to degrade rapidly with time so fresh khat is preferred.

[Amomynous]

Like Rife says, the plant is a grey area. A little anecdote:

A few weeks ago I had the pleasure to meet with a very famous herbal researcher (has written well respected books, maintains a large database of plant effects that is widely used, etc.) who will remain nameless.  I toured his garden, and I noticed he had a khat plant growing. So I asked him the same question.

According to him, California is the only place that the plant itself is explicitly illegal. Now, he could very well be wrong, as he is an herbal expert, not a lawyer (and he told me he didn't "advertise" that he had one growing, although it was quite explicitly labeled). But the most interesting part of the exchange is he told be where he got his sample: The United States Botanical Garden. If khat is illegal, then Congress (who established and funds the garden) is probably guilty of drug charges

Also, a few years back I heard a DEA agent say that the plant was not illegal (this was said on one of those "topical" NPR talkshows). Again, an agent isn't a lawyer, but I think it's fair to say that it is a grey area, if even the government is confused about it!

[Stonehenge]

Sorry to have to disagree but it's not a gray area at all. It's scheduled under federal law. There are only three plants that are illegal in USA. They are:

pot
peyote
khat
e. coca

And one other whose name escapes me at the moment.

Poppies are illegal to harvest but the growing of them is a gray area. People grow them all the time and no busts occur unless someone gets caught making opium or using them to get high or selling.

[freeethnoseedring]

//http://www.justice.gov/ndic/pubs3/3920/3920t.htm

[TroutMask]

Interesting, from that link:

Fresh khat leaves contain cathinone--a Schedule I drug under the Controlled Substances Act; however, the leaves typically begin to deteriorate after 48 hours, causing the chemical composition of the plant to break down. Once this occurs, the leaves contain cathine, a Schedule IV drug. Fresh khat leaves are glossy and crimson-brown in color, resembling withered basil. Deteriorating khat leaves are leathery and turn yellow-green in color.

-TM

[Amomynous]

Sorry to have to disagree but it's not a gray area at all. It's scheduled under federal law. There are only three plants that are illegal in USA. They are:

Sorry to disagree with you, but as far as I can tell, it isn't. This, for example, is from a oppinon of a US Court of Appeals in 2004:

Although 21 C.F.R. § 1308.11(f) makes clear that cathinone is a controlled substance, neither the U.S. Code nor the Code of Federal Regulations controlled substances schedules refers to the plant from which cathinone is derived, Catha edulis, commonly known as “khat.” In contrast, several other chemicals classified as controlled substances are listed in the schedules along with their botanical sources. See, e.g., 21 C.F.R. § 1308.11(d)(23) (listing “peyote” as a controlled No. 02-2268 United States v. Caseer Page 5 4As with the Federal Register document that includes the text of the final rule listing cathinone as a controlled substance, the portion of the Federal Register publication listing cathine as a controlled substance notes the relationship between khat and cathine only in the Supplementary Information section and not in the text of the rule included in the Code of Federal Regulations. Compare Schedules of Controlled Substances; Temporary Placement of Cathine ((+) -
norpseudophedrine), Fencamfamin, Fenproporex and Mefenorex Into Schedule IV, 53 Fed. Reg. 17,459, 17,460
(May 17, 1988) (noting relationship between khat and cathine in Supplementary Information section), with 21 C.F.R.
§ 1308.14(e)(1) (listing cathine as a Schedule IV controlled substance but including no reference to khat).
hallucinogenic substance and explaining that this listing refers to “all parts of the plant presently
classified botanically as Lophophora williamsii Lemaire, whether growing or not, the seeds thereof,
any extract from any part of such plant, and every compound, manufacture, salts, derivative, mixture, or preparation of such plant, its seeds or extracts”); 21 C.F.R. § 1308.11(d)(28) (stating that the term “tetrahydrocannabinols” means “tetrahydrocannabinols naturally contained in a plant of the genus Cannabis (cannabis plant), as well as synthetic equivalents of the substances contained in the cannabis plant or in the resinous extractives of such plant, and/or synthetic substances, derivatives, and their isomers with similar chemical structure and pharmacological activity to those substances contained in the plant”); 21 C.F.R. §1308.12(b)(4) (listing in Schedule II “[c]oca leaves
(9040) and any salt, compound, derivative or preparation of coca leaves (including cocaine (9041) and ecgonine (9180) and their salts, isomers, derivatives and salts of isomers and derivatives), and any salt, compound, derivative, or preparation thereof which is chemically equivalent or identical with any of these substances, except that the substances shall not include decocainized coca leaves
or extraction of coca leaves, which extractions do not contain cocaine or ecgonine.”). However, the Supplementary Information published in the Federal Register along with the
text of the rule adding cathinone as a Schedule I substance does explain the connection between khat
and cathinone.

(full text can be found here, emphasis added. )

So I've heard what you you're saying before, but I can find no reference to it. If you have any data, I'd be interested to see it.

[Amomynous]

BTW, the entire opinion (28 pages) goes on at length about vague laws and a citizen's responsiblity to know them, and makes an interesting read (or at least interesting skimming).

If the government could prove that you know khat contained controlled substances, they may be able to prosecute you sucessfully. But again, as I said, it's a grey area.,,

We agree with the district court that Caseer’s conviction did not violate due process because the scienter requirement overcomes the threat to due process posed by the failure of the controlled substances schedules to identify khat as a source of cathinone. However, we REVERSE Caseer’s conviction and REMAND the case for further proceedings because, even viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution, the evidence is insufficient to support a finding that, beyond a reasonable doubt, Caseer
knew that khat was a controlled substance.

[plantshaman]

stonehenge-    the 5th illegal plant which you didn't list is T. Iboga.

[freeethnoseedring]

7/28/06- Khat: Feds Arrest 62 in Crackdown on Mild East African Stimulant Herb //http://www.stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/446/khat_ring_probably_not_linked_to_terrorism

2001- Brooklyn Yemenis indignant over police raids to seize leaves of the stimulant khat
//http://www.jrn.columbia.edu/studentwork/humanrights/khat-mitchell.asp

March 17, 2000- Police Arrest Nine People In Restaurant Drug Raid
//http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B03E7DD143AF934A25750C0A9669C8B63

[Jacko]

Khat isn't explicitly scheduled, but niehter are psilocybe sp. mushrooms.  There have been many plant matter khat busts reported in the news.  I've seen several reports of large scale busts show up in the DEA's Microgram.  The material is known and prosecuted.  I believe there was even a khat farm bust out west a couple years back.

[Stonehenge]

As has been explained, khat is scheduled by the feds. Psilocybin mushrooms may be on the state level. I'm not sure of it's federal status.