A very strange but positive reaction to my first big FEAR?

[Zebedee]

I was reluctant to post this,(I am still not sure that I can totally believe this and felt silly telling you this), however it is now 5 days from my first experiment with SD and as any temporary effects would have worn off by now...well I thought that I would share this rather personal information with you (I hope you don't mind)

If you have read my thread "Jumped in with both feet....Uh-oh!", then you'll know that my first time with SD wasn't exactly positive... in fact I experienced a very bad FEAR along with a definite physical brain reaction...

To put what I'm about to say in some context I feel that I must share with you some backstory... about 6 years ago I and my friend were were coming back from a few drinks after work when we were assaulted by a group of bastard thugs. My friend escaped with minor injuries whilst I was hit over the head with a bottle of Buckfast (Buckfast is a fortified wine chock full of caffeine brewed by monks from the Buckfast Abbey and comes in glass bottles similar to your standard bottle of wine... there have been campaigns to prevent either the brewing of this most potent cheap alcohol because of the effect it has to turn the drinker, usually young thugs, into hyped up maniacs.... or at least to change the packaging to plastic (there have been a number of similar assaults)... the campaigns failed.). The result of my assault was depressed skull fracturing and brain trauma (I had to undergo major surgery after I lost consciousness) along with a brief bout of Grand Mal seizures, also, as often happens with brain trauma, very slight short term memory loss and a general (vague, but noticeable to me) dullness of the senses, as if you were a knife who's blade has been dulled. (I wasn't left handicapped, by ANY means, by the experience, just vaguely "changed")

Well here's the rub, since I took SD (and disliked the effects of smoking it) and got over the rather major physical feelings I got from it, something strange has happened... although I felt that the initial experience was bad, and since getting over it and letting SD leave my system, I have been feeling more "in focus".

I have to admit that now that I can analyze exactly how I feel at the moment in comparison to how I previously felt (although I do not have categorical evidence) I can honestly say that I again feel slightly different (I'll never be able to compare it to how I was before the assault, because I simply don't remember). I feel as if my "internal lens" has been tweaked. I feel more "present", more "with" the moment as opposed to the "observer" that I felt I  was previously.... things have become easier (I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense to you but to REALLY understand how I feel, we would have to share a common point of reference i.e you too would have to experience my injury to feel how I feel....... which I pray to God you never will).

I feel more VITAL...... don't get me wrong it isn't an earth shatteringly MASSIVE difference, but I do notice it. I am definitely more "HERE"!

Now, I am unwilling to say that "IT'S A MIRACLE!" nor do I wish to say that SD has "changed my life" (although it may "just" have done so:)), but I DO wish to say that I feel it is more than just psychosomatic wishful thing AND that when I discussed this with my mother (yes, I told her all about SD and that I had taken it) she said that she also had noticed a difference............

So there we have it......could the massive shock to my system have done something profound to me? I don't think that I will ever know for sure but I feel that overall SD has produced a positive and totally unexpected situation.

I do not think that SD is "the cure to all ills" and would definately not recommend SD for all, but I have had a strange experience.

Zebedee.

[lollipop guild]

Interesting.

Now go back and re-read my initial comment in the thread concerning your first sally experience. I have no problem buying into the claims you are making above.

Sally has scared the be-jesus out of me, too. Even when disguised as plain old leaf. However, my brain seems to function better, including more fluidity of thoughts and dreams after smoking sally.  

guild rep #9

[Azure Void]

I thought I commented before, but I must have thought better of it.

Anyway, from what you've written I have the opinion that you are quite "in tune" with your consciousness (as evidenced in your lucid descriptions of your interior existence), and thus may be more succeptible (read "able") than most to go into hyperspace with salvia. It sounds to me like the 20x propelled you into a really poweful trip that anyone, despite their bravado assurances to the contrary, would have been rocked by.

Please don't listen to anyone tell you that your harrowing experiences are their mild buzzes. They are not. Very powerful salvia experiences and rather pleasant light ones have many of the same defining characteristics. You need to scale back your dosage. Just go buy some 5x or quality raw leaf.

It's much better to work your way up. Another of those whopping doses might scare you off salvia for good. Some of my best experiences were my earliest ventures with raw leaf.

As to your new post. Salvia has exposed your consciousness to novel experience which it didn't formerly know, and my guess is that this can break apart encrusted thought patterns and habitual thinking. Such experience might triggger new neural connections as your consciousness reconfigures itself to process/accept the new input.

I would also caution you, since you've had seizures and so on, to go light with the salvia. There may be no real risk, but you might not want to overdo it.

Chewing quid, if you can get good leaf, is a great experience IMHO.

[Veracohr]

First,  I have to agree with Azure that if you've had a history of brain trauma resulting in seizures, be easy on yourself. I don't know of any body of knowledge about the interaction of pschedelics and brain trauma, but I don't think you'd like to create that knowledge first hand if anything unpleasant were to happen.

As for your post-experience mental effects, I'm inclined to think that it's not the Sally specifically, rather it's the fact that you've had a strong experience. I think that sort of change in perspective/mental function is not uncommon after intense experiences, be they psychedelic or not. It's my opinion that such strong experiences open the blinds on a new window, allowing you a new angle from which to view life. In my experience, that new way of looking at things is at first unfamiliar, but over time you will assimilate that viewpoint into your overall mental functioning. It may seem like your newfound way of looking at things, the mental after-effects you're experiencing right now, is fading, but in reality you will just be getting used to it, and your mind will find the proper niches for those new thought pathways.

[Zebedee]

@ Lollipop Guild....I had originally intended to quote your " ....new neural paths being opened; long-dormant coggs greased...", as an illustration of my point, but you know how it is, you plan a post and then ended up typing something completely different to how you intended it

@ Azure Void....what you say is similar to Lollipop Guild's quote (see above), and after such intense brain activity I must accept that as a possibility in the absense of contrary evidence. As far as using x20 again though, I have absolutely no intention of using such a high concentration at least for the simple reason that I did not enjoy such a shockingly intense reaction. I have since made a tincture with the remaining extract at a markedly lower concentration in order to ease in to the experience. As stated my period of seizures was very brief... 3 in the space of a 2 week period imediately following the incident about 6 years ago with nothing since (thankfully) and I probably would not have tried SD because of that reason had I known of it's potency, maybe in this particulaer case ignorance, trully, was bliss. As for me being in tune with my mental processes I must agree with you there and I put that down to the incident. I have become more introspective and self examining, since then, as a result of my trying to remember what was lost. I am very conscious as to "how" I think and the processes behind it.

@Veracohr.... I have to admit that what you say does make sense to me, that rather it was the shocking experience itself that was the actual cause of the change of perspective, with the SD being the catalyst for the experience. I know that in a lot of cases people who have suffered brain trauma liken the sensation to being in a rut, similar to a needle being stuck on a scratched record, to continue the analogy I feel that the shock has , although at a more subtle level, "bumped" the needle to allow the record to continue playing. I definately agree with your comment about my awareness just incorporating this new situation in to itself as that was what happened after the initial incident and my "loss".

Well thanks for the comment guys/ettes I'm glad you found my situation interesting enough to post, and if anyone else wishes to comment feel free.

[lollipop guild]

quote Veracohr: I don't know of any body of knowledge about the interaction of pschedelics and brain trauma, but I don't think you'd like to create that knowledge first hand if anything unpleasant were to happen.

I disagree somewhat. Sally has not been shown to induce organic brain damage. And as the brain trauma has already occured, (a negative) a person in Zeebedee's position would be more inclined to take chances on possible means of alleviating the symptoms, imo. As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be nice if Zebe has stumbled on another possible medical application for salvia? I think that prospect is exciting as hell.  

quote Verachor: As for your post-experience mental effects, I'm inclined to think that it's not the Sally specifically, rather it's the fact that you've had a strong experience. I think that sort of change in perspective/mental function is not uncommon after intense experiences, be they psychedelic or not. It's my opinion that such strong experiences open the blinds on a new window, allowing you a new angle from which to view life. In my experience, that new way of looking at things is at first unfamiliar, but over time you will assimilate that viewpoint into your overall mental functioning. It may seem like your newfound way of looking at things, the mental after-effects you're experiencing right now, is fading, but in reality you will just be getting used to it, and your mind will find the proper niches for those new thought pathways.

So, "he's had a strong experience."

I've heard of high fevers causing similar hallucinations, but have read no reports of that type of "strong experience" ever lessening the effects of organic brain trauma.

I'm guessing the bash over the head was a strong experience as well, but it didn't seem to do anything positive for our new pal's cognitive abilities. I'm missing the link that you propose, if not the sal-A, which travels directly from the lungs, into the blood stream and then straight up to the brain upon ingestion....

guild rep #13

[Veracohr]

I disagree somewhat. Sally has not been shown to induce organic brain damage. And as the brain trauma has already occured, (a negative) a person in Zeebedee's position would be more inclined to take chances on possible means of alleviating the symptoms, imo. As a matter of fact, wouldn't it be nice if Zebe has stumbled on another possible medical application for salvia? I think that prospect is exciting as hell.

I wasn't implying Sally induces brain damage. I was saying that using a psychedelic might have an unknown negative effect on one who has suffered brain trauma. I don't know one way or the other, I just think that caution is important. Like I said, I don't think he'd enjoy finding out the hard way if there was some negative effect.

I'm guessing the bash over the head was a strong experience as well, but it didn't seem to do anything positive for our new pal's cognitive abilities. I'm missing the link that you propose, if not the sal-A, which travels directly from the lungs, into the blood stream and then straight up to the brain upon ingestion....

guild rep #13

I was speaking of psychology. Zebedee's description of his post-experience mental functioning struck me as very familiar. Much the same has happened to me, and people I know, resulting from experiences other than salvia. That's why I said it's not the salvia specifically, rather it's perhaps a common effect of such experiences.

[lollipop guild]

quote Verachor: Zebedee's description of his post-experience mental functioning struck me as very familiar. Much the same has happened to me, and people I know, resulting from experiences other than salvia. That's why I said it's not the salvia specifically, rather it's perhaps a common effect of such experiences.

I'm curious as to what the circumstances were surrounding your similar experience? Could you have been under the influence of a different entheogenic compound? If so, that would tell me that there may possibly be more than one chemical capable of performing similar functions in our brain as that hypothesized above.

For example, I've had the same experiences/feelings/visions/hallucinations that we've been discussing in this thread while under the influence of LSD as well as psilocyben.

The only plausible concern I can think of, concerning a person with brain injury and the use of salvia would be possible negative reactions with any perscription drugs being taken because  of the injury. (But I'm not a doctor.)

guild rep #9

[Veracohr]

I'm curious as to what the circumstances were surrounding your similar experience? Could you have been under the influence of a different entheogenic compound? If so, that would tell me that there may possibly be more than one chemical capable of performing similar functions in our brain as that hypothesized above.

With me, it's been other entheogens, non-entheogenic recreational substances, and even meditation experiences that have all done similar things to me. So I don't think of it as a matter of pharmacology, but a matter of psychology.

[Zebedee]

I can see where you are both going with this (I think), correct me if I'm wrong.

I have a feeling that you are both right and that you are just pulling from opposite ends of the same rope. One for the effects of SD and one for the effects of experience based change.... what about this... we already do know that experience alone can induce a multitude of of psychological based problems, extreme fear can induce catatonia and other extreme reactions to emotional states can cause effects such as schizophrenia.

However in my case I would not have been exposed to such a traumatic experience without the use of the SD.

So here I am left with the opinion that although I feel that the SD chemical reaction itself may not have been resposible for the change/broadening of neural pathway i.e salvorine A itself didn't force new pathways, I do feel HOWEVER that the unique perspective "tilt" brought about by the SD altered conciousness dealt with the fear it caused in
a manner which could not have been duplicated regardless of the external experience, without it. (I hope I'm being clear about this.)

So in the end both of your points of view, Lollipop Guild for a chemical based reaction and Veracohr for an emotional based reaction, end up becoming the same arguement because without both of the factor involved neither would had the impetus on it's own to cause this situation. Fear on it's own (regardless of how it was brought about) would not have been enough to cause this particular reaction, but neither would the use of SD on it's own caused it if I had experienced a different mindset during my"trip".

Anyway thanks guys for keeping this thread mature, I'm pretty sure that the derisive howls could have been heard for miles around had I proposed my experience anywhere else.

[lollipop guild]

quote Verachor: With me, it's been other entheogens, non-entheogenic recreational substances, and even meditation experiences that have all done similar things to me. So I don't think of it as a matter of pharmacology, but a matter of psychology.

I've never heard of a case where meditation was able to improve the effects of organic brain damage. And I've spent a fair amount of time around those suffering from similar conditions.

That would be similar to touting meditation as a to cure AIDS, imo.

guild rep #9

[Merkaba]

Attacked by thugs?  That's lame.  I always get upset hearing stories like that.  Call me a hippie or whatever,but what is the point in attacking peopel like that?  It makes me wretch.  I wish people would all just smoke a doobie and peace the hell out and be kind to eachother.  Glad to hear about your experience.

[Veracohr]

quote Verachor: With me, it's been other entheogens, non-entheogenic recreational substances, and even meditation experiences that have all done similar things to me. So I don't think of it as a matter of pharmacology, but a matter of psychology.

I've never heard of a case where meditation was able to improve the effects of organic brain damage. And I've spent a fair amount of time around those suffering from similar conditions.

That would be similar to touting meditation as a to cure AIDS, imo.

guild rep #9

I'm sorry, I must not have been clear. I wasn't referring to effects on brain damage, I was referring to Zebedee's mental after-effects of the SD experience.

[lollipop guild]

Verachor: Doh!

Thanks. I get your point now. I notice positive effects from salvia on my brain and I'm not brain-damaged. At least not in the classical sense. hehe

guild rep #13

[fractal enchantment]

well i think that our psychological states arise from neurochemical reactions, so to say that its psychological and not pharmacological makes NO sense.. no offence but it just doesnt make sense to seperate the 2... just like saying all entheogens do the same thing or that one could metitate themselves into any experience..could you eat an apple without eating an apple??