White flies and Brugs

[winder]

I have salvia growing indoors which means I have been battling white flies for the winter months.  Damn elusive pesky and persistent these suckers of sap they are.  Away, now I have noticed white flies on my Brugmansia which is upstairs while the salvia are in the basement.  

Normally if I disturb the salvia leaves, the white flies scatter about.
The white flies ont he Brugmansia are oblivous to motion and stay fixed to the leaves.  I wonder if they are stoned on the tropane alkaloids.

Maybe that would be a means of control, have a Brug down in the basement with the salvia and cause the white flies to go catatonic. :roll:

[Jaeda]

Possibly a means of control - if you don't mind sacrificing the Brugmansia? White flies are a very common problem with Brugs as well - Neem Oil to the rescue!

I got seeds for a variety of Shoo-fly plant this year that I hope to grow and use as a natural deterrent.

You know, provided you're taking normal precautions before consumption of edible plants - you can treat them with Neem Oil to take care of a variety of pest problems. It's also good for spidermites, etc.

The problem with using your Brug like a bait for the white flies is that you won't get rid of the infestation... it will just continue to grow, and the Brug won't sustain them forever... which means they'd be back at your Salvia and anything else they found tasty.

Me, I wouldn't want them around. I'd heard and read plenty about white flies, but my specimen plants had never had an issue. Then one day while out bush-hogging I went under a Hickory tree, not realizing what I saw at the moment before contact with some specific leaves, was white flies. I don't know if they actually bite per se or what exactly, but my experience in coming into contact with them was undeniable - everywhere I made contact I had a tiny welt for each one...  multiply each welt by several hundred over 3 major areas and several smaller areas and it was difficult to discern from having been stung/bitten by fire ants (the real fire ants, not the biting ants that some people in non-fire ant states think are fire ants) - the only difference was each spot didn't blister and hours later the pain was subsiding but I was still dealing with an allergic reaction and I ITCHED like mad. Stinging nettles feel better.

"Suffer thee not a whitefly to live" hehehe...

[Stonehenge]

Jaeda, I'm sure it was not the white flies that bit you. May have been some other bugs or an alergic reaction to the plant.

The only thing I know of that will kill off or control white fly is thurigensis bacteria. It can be bought at places like Lowe's or Home Depot. One brand name is "Thuricide". You mix it with water and spray all over the plants particularly the undersides of leaves. It won't killl the adults or the pupae (egg like things) but it will stop eggs from developing to pupae. Mix the thurigensis with some safer's soap. The safer's will kill adults at the same time you are stopping them from breeding. This takes a while to work, like weeks or a month or two. Spray thoroughly every week or so and expect them to slowly die out.

One other method is to bomb the room with a bug bomb. You have to seal the room off preferrably overnight while the poison gas works. Do it again in about 7 days after the pupae have hatched and before the emerged flies have had time to reproduce. It might take several applications to get them all. If there is any reinfestation from the outside, this will likely fail. They develop resistance to any poison fairly fast so you have to get them the first time around.

[Jaeda]

I wish I had that certainty. I mean I'm not certain about it being a matter of being literally bitten or stung, but there was unquestionably a chemical reaction when my skin came into contact with them. The plant in question is a Hickory tree... they were on the undersides of some leaves in a particular area... en masse the little ~$%#*&! I don't have a sensitivity to Hickory or I would have finger-pointed elsewhere.

[winder]

I am spraying the Brug with neem oil preparation.

[Stonehenge]

Neem will kill the adults same as safer's but will do nothing for eggs, crawlers or pupae. Neem helps with mold and fungus if you have that problem. Thurigensis is the only thing that can stop them from reproducing I know of. There is one other thing, come to think of it, that works on eggs and the pupa. Some horticultural oil might help. It suffocates the eggs and pupae, killing them on contact.

[winder]

Thanks for the advice.

Their is a commercial product I learned of from a horticultural student studying at midwestern university.  Admire is the name of the product.  It is a nicotinic mimic, which causing the insects' nervous systems to fire continuously, much like VX does to humans.  Of course it is safer than VX to humans, but is hardly the sort of thing that one would want to use indoors.  For indoors, soap, oil, and neem are it.

What's the difference between horticultural oil and neem oil?

[Jupe]

Horticultural oils are water soluable oils, "parrafinic" (correct me if I'm wrong)......I use gallons(yearly) on our orchids, and outside plants.  They act by smothering eggs and larva, basically a mechanical action.....and also can be used as a leaf polish.  I suppose Neem could be conseidered a "horticultural specialty oil"....I have never had to use it yet, and its a bit pricey for the volume I need.

[Stonehenge]

winder, why are you reluctant to use thurigensis? It breaks the breeding cycle.

[winder]

I am not reluactant, and likely will try it; I just haven't been to the store to get it yet.

Thanks.

[kosmicjourney]

I've found nothing that works effectively for whiteflies. For heavily invested brugs, a simple daily hosing with the jet nozzle (or similar) will usually convince the rat bastages to move along.

peace,

kj

[Stonehenge]

Plain water isn't going to do much. They are very persistant but using the bacteria for long term along with safer's soap for instant death works if you are just as persistant as the bugs. Where it gets hard is when the plants have a lot of foliage and you can't get to all the spots.

[winder]

While my shady salvia did not mind the mix of soap, oil, and neem sprayed on them recently, the sunny Brugs were most irritated by the abusive assault.  But being they are Brugs, they will live through it.

It is making a difference though.
There isn't a swarm of white flies around my salvia now.

[Stonehenge]

Winder, what oil were you using? Hort oil will smother the eggs (pupae). I use bacteria to break the chain of reproduction. If you are using safer's soap you probably don't need the neem.