The Case Against DMT Elves

[psilocyberin]

well, i dont think anyone has pinpointed a cause for schitzophrenia, nor has any study been done on the possibility of a connection between the pineal gland and schitzophrenia. When I saw my friend, I instantly knew if he was in his schitzo haze, basically because he looked exactly like someone tripping; I always checked his eyes and every now and then performed a dialation test, which always acted the exact same as someone gone sideways on some LSD.

[laughingwillow]

I wonder why so many of us have a desire to control psychedelic lessons? In the end, its really just turning the class room over to the students, no?
 
Gone are the days when
we stopped to decide where we
would go, we just ride..... - R Hunter -

lw

[TroutMask]

Have not others experienced the elves on laughing gas? I met them there many times before anywhere else, then only again with salvia. I have not met them on DMT yet, but I'm sure it may happen.

I met the elves very often many years ago when I had a serious whipped cream habit. They hang out there too.

-TM

[nitrogen]

There are a number of oversights and blind assumptions made in that article...

 FWIW I'm in the camp that believe the "elves" do exist outside of ourselve's.  

    i.e I believe that right now they're in that higher dimensional space doing their thing, living their lives, perhaps waiting eagerly for one of us to come play for awhile ...

    This is a question really about the nature of consciousness - if consciousness arises from our brains then maybe the "elves" are just a product of it...   This view of consciousness BTW implies that death is the end of consciousness - when you die the game is over...

   However if consciousness is a universal thing or "place" that our brains are tapped into, then very likely it's already been populated by sentient beings, and we're just now, at this point in evolution, realizing that it exists and that we can exist in multi-dimensional versions of it...  This view of consciousness offers the possibility that at death our "soul" or "quantum body" or whatever you want to call it can continue to exist.

   If this view turns out to be correct we may find we're pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole, the larva in the intelligent heirarchy of the cosmos...

      LOL, humans are so egocentric - we're like "well, if I encounter something that is alive and intelligent, but doesn't have a body, it must be a creation of my own mind!"

     In any case I think the implications of the DMT entities existing outside of our minds is vastly more fun, exciting and fascinating than the idea that they're just a creation of our minds...  

   What this would mean too is that as we evolve and explore higher dimensional space through entheogens, we'll have guides  - friendly (I hope!) beings who can show us the ropes, how to navigate and utilize the space...

[Avery L. Breath]

Must we forget dogma and expectation?...... you tell people enough times they are going to see dmt elves, they just might.  I think the articles authors explanations made alot of sense, but I'd hate to say I 'believe' one way or another, the case is just too speculative to be open and shut .... at least for me.  Still, you make a pretty good argument yourself nitrogen.

[Vertigo6911]

dudes... its just a WORD....

the elves thing doesent come from actual 'elves' but from 'entities' (all shapes and sises) that engage in the same activity.
an activity that has no precedent in human culture anywhere, let alone to a bunch of 'primitive' tribal people who have only recently been introduced to white man...

one dude sees them as self boundcing basketbals encrested with jewels,
others see a serpentine shape with a human face (naga)...
it is the activity that unifies them...

it doesent matter where they come from, it matters what they are trying to tell us.

any of u have a clue?

[psilocyberin]

my new signature has a good quote on it regarding this subject, Neils Bohr is da man!

[Vertigo6911]

uhhh i dont get it... lol

my point is that it might make more sense to see what 'it' is rather then discussing where it might have come from...

DMT 'elves' as i am familiar with come in all shapes and sises but they have in commen that they do something to change audio in to visuals and ure the person to do the same.

so what are they trying to communicate?
that seems like a more interesting question then wether it is a creation of the mind or some outside factor is at play...
furthermore, understanding the message might be the only thing that might lead to a clue about where it comes from...

[Amomynous]

If this view turns out to be correct we may find we're pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole, the larva in the intelligent heirarchy of the cosmos...

      LOL, humans are so egocentric - we're like "well, if I encounter something that is alive and intelligent, but doesn't have a body, it must be a creation of my own mind!"

Nah man, putting us at the bottom of the totem pole is human-centric, in a strange inverse way.

I think the Bonpo have a good way of looking at it. To them there are six realms (which also map to possibilities within our conscious experience:

The Realm of Gods
The Realm of Demigods
The Human Realm
The Animal Realm
The Realm of Hungry ghosts
The Realm of the Inhabitants of Hell.

And while this cosmology puts us sort-of-in-the-center, it isn't human-centric. We're just one of many classes of sentient beings.

[Avery L. Breath]

any of u have a clue?

......... hardy har, yeh got us there Vertigo, we is all without clues......... except for you of course.  Thanks for letting us know...... so helpfull.

drip, drip......

[Vertigo6911]

thats not what i ment  and u know it  :twisted:

[laughingwillow]

Well then, I'm clueless, too. At least we know it.

lw

[TroutMask]

LOL, humans are so egocentric - we're like "well, if I encounter something that is alive and intelligent, but doesn't have a body, it must be a creation of my own mind!"

I don't consider it egocentricity; I consider it realistic. We don't need to come up with some kind of mysterious, magical, otherworldly scheme to explain what can be explained by science. If it was 2000 years ago we'd be asking "How could anyone be so egocentric to believe the stars in the sky could be anything other than the campfires of our ancestors?"

-TM

[laughingwillow]

True dat, troutie.

However, science has been unable to answer many of lifes' little mysteries up to this point. Try as we might.

lw

[Aneurysm]

So many replies going so many ways...

Avery, as far as dogma and expectation goes I think that, in this case at least, it can be ruled out.  If you are told you will see 'this' or 'that', it doesn't necessarily mean you'll believe it going in.  Not to mention that T McK has talked to Amazonian shamans about the matter (who are apart of cultures far removed from ours), and they see elves too (although despite their appearance they consider them ancestor spirits).  If you want to take mythology into consideration, cultures that have been separated by thousands of years and miles all talk about 'little people' or 'elves' or what have you.  I think that its a little more than chance that all these cultures make mention of these creatures.

As far as us humans go, we are egocentric, but I think our inability to consider that intelligent life could reside in another form stems from our ignorance.  If all the life we encounter has a physical body living in three-dimensional space, and all the intelligent life we see utilizes all sorts of metal and plastic tools and technologies, then you're going to have a hard time making the argument that there are these hyperspacial entities that can sing multi-dimensional objects in existence.

Similarly you're going to have a difficult time convincing anyone involved in the current search for extraterrestrial life that it's pure idiocy to assume that intelligent life on another planet would have developed communication by radio waves.

Vertigo--  It would seem that these beings (if they are indeed are doing the same thing, I've only heard of elves singing) are trying to get us to evolve our language to the point that it directly affects reality.  Native peoples of the Amazon who use ayahuasca are most likely at the forefront of this endeavor.  However, singing objects into existence is a piece of cake in multi-dimensional hyperspace, but what of our 3-dimensional space?  What is the goal of them teaching us this?  Is it an attempt, as T McK says, to make our language so complex and dense that it overflows into another dimension?  Or are they trying to show us how we can utilize language to affect the dimensions that we operate in?