DC (?) seeds up for grabs

[cunningplatypus]

Hey now,

A very generous member sent me more than a few of AJ's Diplopterys cabrerana seeds as part of a trade. I know another member here has some beautiful, year-old plants from these same seeds, though I don't know of anyone who's done any testing, so to speak.

I've already got five seedlings going, so I'd like to share the wealth. If I end up killing all of mine -- a distinct possibility -- at least someone else will have some of these interesting plants to propagate.

Be aware that these guys took their sweet time germinating -- I planted some around Thanksgiving, and just had another one come up a few days ago!

I'd prefer tades, but PM me and we'll figure something out.

Best,

Cunning Platypus

[pkeffect]

I was about to order some seed and live plants from a friend in Peru. If you still have some to offer up drop me a line and we can work something out.

Easy to distinguish d. cab seed from caapi also. The caapi seed only has one fan where the d. cab has 2. Looking good btw.  :smoke:3

[Amomynous]

Are you sure these are D.c. seeds?

The reason I ask it because a friend of mine procured some of these seeds and grew them out, and (he believes, at least) they have been positively identified as D. pauciflora, not D.c. Now, this isn't necessarily a bad thing, and it's entirely possible that D. pauciflora is what is considered "chaliponga" in the Pucallpa region, but I thought this should at least be mentioned.

[cunningplatypus]

Hey now, Amom,

You know, I'm not absolutely certain that they are DC.  People have been chasing that elusive plant for so long that I'm always skeptical when I encounter 'genuine' Diploptery seed.

These were sold as Diploptery cabrerana, and they DO look much like the seeds found in some trustworthy sources (see attachment). There are some minor differences, I think; the DC samaras in the Harvard papers appear a bit more ruffled, though this could just be the artist's rendering. They're close, that's for sure. However, you're absolutely right that they might indeed be something else entirely.

Thanks for the tip about D. pauciflora, which I will explore when I'm not rushing off to work.

Best,
Cunning Platypus

[Amomynous]

Thanks for the tip about D. pauciflora, which I will explore when I'm not rushing off to work.

Not much is known about it from what I can find, although it is reported (at least by Ott) to be an ayahuasca analog.

For what it's worth, my friend has bioassayed it and found it quite strong (but a disclaimer: this particular person is extremely sensitive to plants, unlike me who is something of a hard-head, so I have at times been unable to replicate his bioassays).

[Ryparosa]

I think I will have to agree with your friend anonymous and say its D. pauciflora without a doubt.

If we check the seeds sold commonly by AJ its quite obvious which Diplopterys the seed being sold is.
I have attached a side by side taxo comparision picture for you all look at. Make your own decisions

This like you said isn't a bad thing. I am confident if AJ says the locals use this as diplo then its most likely active. There is alot of
Diplopterys spp and just like there is many Banisteriopsis.spp that are not Banisteriopsis caapi that are active to.
Who knows, Possibly D. pauciflora could be stronger than Diplopterys cabrerana?
This said any Diplopterys spp is very hard to find outside of the amazon and will still make a fine addition to your garden and many thanks
should go to AJ in sourcing these plants to make them available for everyone

Saludos

[Ryparosa]

Oh and hey cunningplatypus that paper on diplo.spp is a good read isn't. The synchosity seems to be effecting our libraries to my friend

[cunningplatypus]

Aloha Amom and Cas,

Excellent sleuthing work, you two! Sherlock Holmes has nothing on you. Even from a casual observer, it's apparent that these seeds are indeed D. pauciflora. Thanks for the pics, Cas; it's always helpful to have a side-by-side comparison.

As you've both mentioned, this is no way diminishes their value, as they may indeed be active to a high degree, and virtually unknown outside of very specific regions of S. America. I trust AJ's sincerity and local cultural knowledge to a high degree, and I suspect that, much like Amom's friend found out, these plants will eventually be proven magical through more bioassey.  

Cas, I try my best to slog through the botanical papers (like the Harvard one mentioned above) though it's literally Greek (and Latin) to me! Still, it is an interesting read and contribuiting to the non-delinquency of majors. In other words, it's helping me learn.

If the mods don't mind, I'd like to keep this thread's title for a while, so that more people can follow this wonderful topic.

Big mahalo again guys!

Cunning Platypus

[Ryparosa]

I try my best to slog through the botanical papers (like the Harvard one mentioned above) though it's literally Greek (and Latin) to me! Still, it is an interesting read and contribuiting to the non-delinquency of majors. In other words, it's helping me learn.

Ha tell me about it, Its the same for me. The plates alone are all you really need. I found the background to why they classify diplo differnet to bannisiperosis interesting.  Basically diplo produces fruit, bani doesn't.

I also found the part about D.Mexicana not producing fruit at all quite interesting to. I remember a thread somewhere by someone living in peru (might of been shoemaker) saying how the shamans have need seen "D.C" flower or set seed. I have a sneaking suspicion that the diplo they have is indeed D.Mexicana. Makes sense to me.

[cunningplatypus]

If anyone's interested in digging deeper, here's a link to the Harvard botany article discussing Diplopterys and its relation to Banisteriopsis. There are some good plates, including the ones we posted above.

http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~ccda ... B_2006.pdf

It is an interesting, albeit challenging read. It seems that Diplopterys was once considered a subgenera of Banisteriopsis (Pleiopterys subgenus), but is now considered a seperate genus.

There appear to be about 35 species of Diplopterys; 1 from Mexico, 1 in Costa Rica, 2 in Panama, 1 in Trinidad, and 30 in South America.

As Cas noted above, one species (D. mexicana) is known only from its type; its fruits are unknown (though suspected to have caapi-like samaras). I agree with Cas that this certainly sounds like the elusive chaliponga, since I've read often enough how no one has managed to find its seed.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, as science is not my strength. Interesting, tho!

CP

[Ryparosa]

45 species amigo, That is alot

    * Diplopterys amplectens (B.Gates) W.R.Anderson & C.Davis[3]
    * Diplopterys araujei (Schwacke ex Nied.) Nied.[4]
    * Diplopterys bahiana
    * Diplopterys bracteosa
    * Diplopterys cabrerana (Cuatrec.) B.Gates[1]
    * Diplopterys cachimbensis
    * Diplopterys caduciflora
    * Diplopterys carvalhoi
    * Diplopterys cristata
    * Diplopterys cururensis
    * Diplopterys cururuensis
    * Diplopterys erianthera
    * Diplopterys heterostyla
    * Diplopterys hypericifolia
    * Diplopterys includens
    * Diplopterys involuta
    * Diplopterys involuta var. ovata
    * Diplopterys krukoffii
    * Diplopterys leiocarpa
    * Diplopterys longialata (Nied.) W. R. Anderson & C. Davis[5]
    * Diplopterys lucida
    * Diplopterys lutea
    * Diplopterys marsballiana
    * Diplopterys marshalliana
    * Diplopterys mexicana [1]
    * Diplopterys microcarpa
    * Diplopterys nigrescens
    * Diplopterys nutans
    * Diplopterys paralias
    * Diplopterys paralias var. latifolia
    * Diplopterys patula
    * Diplopterys pauciflora
    * Diplopterys pauciflora var. latifolia
    * Diplopterys peruviana
    * Diplopterys platyptera
    * Diplopterys populifolia
    * Diplopterys pubipetala
    * Diplopterys riparia
    * Diplopterys rondoniensis
    * Diplopterys rosea
    * Diplopterys schunkei
    * Diplopterys sepium
    * Diplopterys spruceana
    * Diplopterys uleana
    * Diplopterys valvata
    * Diplopterys virgultosa
    * Diplopterys woytkowskii

Now it would be very cool if all of them are active wouldn't it

[cunningplatypus]

One down, forty-four to go....

[Stonehenge]

I have about 25 seedlings of this plant going right now. I started them at the beginning of dec and still am getting sprouts. I got around 35 sprouts but some died. Cunning, do you fert yours and do you put them under lights? I'll probably post pics in the rain forest section since this is for trades only.

[cunningplatypus]

Hey Stoney,

No, no ferts and under natural, indirect light. 'Course, this is Hawaii, so even in winter the sun is plenty strong. The white stuff you see in the pic at the top of this thread is Diatomaceous Earth, as I've had some trouble with fungus gnats. The gnats haven't affected any of these Diploptery seedlings, though I do think they've killed off a couple of B. caapi babies.  

I know what you mean about these seeds taking a while to germinate -- I'm still getting almost weekly sprout surprises from Diplo seeds planted at the end of November! I think patience is probably the biggest virtue with these guys.

Best,
CP

[celestial]

I have heard bad things about ordering seeds from there and you maybe one of the few that had luck with anything bought from them.
Was dampening off a problem with your grow,common with those types of seed, chestnut compound is a good addition.