Salvia tincture

[Bushpig]

I recently tried salvia tincture, on two occasions.  Both experiences took place in a dark quiet room.  First time I had 3x 1ml doses, keeping each 1ml in my mouth for 10-15 minutes before discarding. Effects were subtle if at all.  Next time (2 days later) I tried 3x 2ml doses held each dose for 10-15 minutes as before.  Again subtle effects, though a definate feeling of 'head pressure' and I felt hot.  Little in the visual sprectrum and about 30-45 minutes from beggining to take the first dose I  decieded to go and get a drink and definately felt slightly altered, but nothing dramatic and defintely hard to know quite where to go with it.  I went to bed, and must have been in a somewhat lucid state as I did wake up and attempt nookie with the mrs whilst asleep!  A firm push form her sent me back on my mattress on the floor!

As I am new to Salvia tincture really I am curious to other peoples experiences and the amount they used to obtain results?

Boooosh

[Amomynous]

I've posted on tincture here before. For a rather long post that contains a few experience, see

this post

For a longer experiential posts, some things from my journals follow. Most of these experiences were with about 5 ml of tincture, taken in one serving.


*****

...I find myself firmly observing the realm of spirit. "I" do not feel at all strange or altered.  I have all my wits about me; my emotions and cognitive abilities are intact. And from this vantage point, I see strange and wondrous visions of spirit.  

Latticework covers my field of vision. As I look around, the dominant impression is of a vaulted, Gothic ceiling. But fore and ground are undifferentiated, and the vaulted chambers move and shift to form incomprehensible, machine-like structures. Thousands of rotations comprise their bodies, and as they move I have the impression that they are the agents of transformation within the extant universe. Everything is conserved, but all existence is transformation. It is almost as if these moving... "things" continuously recycle the stuff of life and reality.

There is an utterly impersonal and detached feeling about what I see. No emotion or affect enters the process. These things -- which are either conscious or controlled by conscious agents, I can't tell which -- are coldly efficient in what they do.

There is a crystalline beauty in all that I see. Each line and facet is iridescent, and rainbows fill my field of view....

*****

I tossed and turned, and at one point I threw the covers off me.  As I did, I saw my arm and the sheet shatter into a thousand copies, like some insane version of Duchamp's "Nude," or a golfer photographed under a strobe light.  I say "saw," and there was a heavy visual component, but in reality my eyes were closed.

I couldn't take the heat anymore, so I opened my eyes and began walking, moving towards the bathroom.  When I opened my eyes vision exploded into my cortex.  It took a few seconds to make heads or tails of what I was seeing, but I was eventually able to plot out the few feet to the bathroom, and I walked into its cool interior.  The ataxia was strong, and I had some trouble walking, but nothing unsurmountable.

I stood there with my eyes closed, holding onto the wall to keep myself up. I co-inhabited both worlds.  Bilocated, I existed as an entity in altered space and consensual reality at the same time.  A luminescent grid-work existed in my mind's eye, but my body seemed to inhabit the space too.  Imagine glowing white ropes stretched from floor to ceiling, and in each place they touched my body I could feel them as a pressure on the surface of my skin.  I think I was walking between them so that they didn't actually intersect my body, but this is a little unclear.  Likewise I'm not sure if there where horizontal light-ropes or not.  

*****

...Superimposed upon the twisty fractal shapes I see rectilinear patterns, and these patterns give way to strange mechanical visions. What I see reminds me of mechanical spiders, or -- more accurately -- the multi-limbed robots that engineers build to study walking motions in machines. The appendages of these machines move quickly up and down, looking like nothing so much as manic sewing machines. But what they sew isn't fabric: they are sewing me. They surround me on my right side and continue their incomprehensible movements...

[X. Torris]

My attempts with commercially supplied tincture were a little frustrating and weird.  If memory serves, I started with about a third of the 1/2 oz. bottle of tincture--approx. 4-5 ml-- diliuted with a little water to prevent a burn and held in the mouth for 10 minutes or so, then spit it out.  After about 15 minutes of laying in my bed, I percieved a very mild spaciness, perhaps some mild but indistinct CEV action, but little else.  I got impatient with laying in my bed, and after a half-hour or so of no increase in effects, I left my bedroom to take a shower.  I didn't really notice much after leaving my bedroom, just that mild spaciness, which wasn't particularly distracting or enjoyable: I really noticed it only when I closed my eyes to consciously "check" to see if the feeling persisted.  After showering, I left to walk to a friend's house for the afternoon.  Didn't really notice when the effect ceased.  Overall, I was disappointed, but figured I didn't use enough, didn't hold it in my mouth long enough, or shouldn't have diluted it.

A couple of weeks later I decided to use the remainder of the bottle (approx. 10 ml) undiluted  I held it in my mouth for 10 minutes. Ouch!--- not the brightest thing to do, as the ethanol burned my mouth quite a bit--- but dammit, I wanted solid effects!  After 10 minutes, I spit into a cup and rinsed my burning mouth with water, and somewhat reluctantly put the tincture/saliva mixture back into my mouth for another 10 minutes before I spit it out.

Well, solid effects were what I got, the potency of which wasn't in evidence at first.  Definitely got the same spaciness as the previous attempt, but stronger this time. Pleasantly flowing but indistinct CEVs--- they were really more phosphenes with vague patterns than the more clearly cinema-like CEVs that I associate with psychedelics.  Little to no OEVs in my darkened room--- slightly flowing shadows was about it.  Felt a little warm and sweaty, not unlike when I drink too much coffee--- noted, but not that uncomfortable or at all distracting.

After laying in my bedroom for about 15 minutes after I first noticed the effects, perhaps 30 minutes after my first taking the tincture, I remember being a bit annoyed that there didn't seem to be any increase in intensity.  The phone rang so I got up to get it.

As I left my dark bedroom, I was dazzled a bit by the comparative brightness of the living room.  I eventually answered the phone and then the full effect of the tincture became evident as I completely failed to have a coherent conversation.  I could understand that the caller was someone I knew-- it was my roommate's girlfriend, asking to speak to him.  He was out, a fact that I should have been able to communicate to her in a sentence or two.  I found that, though I could understand her words, I wasn't really able to comprehend why she was calling me (or understand that she wasn't, really), or that the appropriate response to this stimulus was to inform her that my roommate wasn't available to speak and ask to take a message.  It was simply beyond me.  It was a bit like the aphasia-type inability to communicate that I have gotten with higher doses of other psychedelics, but this was more disturbing because I was mystified as to an appropriate response to this simple social exchange and somehow knew that I really shouldn't be.  Something simple was expected of me-- I got that much--- but I clearly wasn't up to it, and was starting to panic.  

After an eternity of several seconds of the caller repeating herself, and my stammering into the phone, I managed to mumble an apology and hung up, feeling profoundly confused and a little humiliated. (Thankfully, the phone didn't ring again.)  My visual field seemed clear, I didn't feel "high", I thought I knew who and where I was: in short, I didn't have any of the usual cues to tell me I was fucked up.  But what contributed most to my confusion was an effect that I almost always encounter on salvia, regardless of the mode of administration: I had essentially forgotten that I had taken a powerful drug.  I couldn't make the connection between the weirdness of what had just happened to any past event, no matter how recent.  I guess you could call it a type of amnesia.  What was different about my previous experiments with salvia, all of which had involved smoking, was that I was (or thought I was) sober and aware of my surroundings.  But something was "wrong", I didn't know what exactly, or why.  

Not too long after this experience, I read PiHKAL and was struck by Shulgin's description of his "fugue state", in which he describes his experience with temporary difficulties with physical orientation, language comprehension, and abstract constructs such as units of time, all without the benefit of any drugs.   Apt comparison to my tincture experience or not, I identified with his description of feeling inexplicably disassociated while feeling otherwise sober.   One big difference was that while Shulgin appears to have approached this state with a relatively calm, scientific mindset, I was a little too shaken and--- whether I knew it or not-- altered to engage in any sort of meaningful analysis.  Instead, I decided to sort things out over a cigarette on my balcony.

As I sat outside in the apparently excessively bright afternoon sun and smoked, I continued to have difficulty in forming a coherent train of thought.  I was "there" enough to agonize over my difficulties with the phone and what the caller must have thought about me gibbering into the phone then hanging up, but I just couldn't make sense of what was wrong with me.  I gradually began to relax a bit and began to slip into troubled lassitude as I watched the fluttering of the leaves of trees next to the balcony.  When a car passed on the street below, I was noticed trails that the motion produced and, with a flash, I recalled that I had (about 30 minutes ago, mind you!) taken salvia tincture and my mental state made sense.  I was so relieved I began laughing, visibly startling a neighbor on an adjacent balcony.  As I self-consciously finished my cigarette, I moved my hands and was mildly gratified to see minor trails. (This probably looked pretty odd to my neighbor, too.)  I stared at the concrete floor of the balcony, which started to "flow" ever so slightly.  I watched the nearby trees again and realized their slight motion wasn't due just to a breeze, though the visual effect was unlike the rapidly flowing and morphing visual effects I'm used to experiencing with psychedelics.  Perhaps the best I can explain the visual effect is to those who wear glasses (as I do).  If you take the glasses on your face and pull them slowly, ever-so-slightly away from and back towards your face--- just barely moving the glasses, I'm talking millimeters.  Now imagine that effect on your vision applied not to your whole field of vision, but confined to the object or area your eyes are focused on.  The change is not particularly distracting or enthralling, you almost don't notice it and certainly can ignore it, but it's there.  (Not sure if that makes any sense.)

The bright sunlight began to hurt my eyes and went back inside to my darkened bedroom.  I put some music on the stereo at a low-volume--- can't remember what exactly, whatever was in the CD player-- and lay back in my bed as the effects began to gradually decline.  Waving hands in front of my face still produced noticeable but not impressive trails; otherwise, OEV were still not distinct.  Still mildly undulating shadows, if I stared, though a few times it appeared that the shadows began to move towards and coalesce into the center of my ceiling, or corners if my room.  However, when I focused my attention on the dark spot, it always slowly resolved into what that part of my room "should" look like.  With eyes closed, I fell into a reverie as I watched the soft, amorphously spiraling blobs of color behind my eyelids with a quiet mind, as I had given up trying to consciously think--- that still wasn't working out too well for me.  It was almost as though my brain would resist active use and reward me for mental inaction with this more-or-less contented, dreamy state.

I'm not certain when effects actually ceased, as I eventually fell asleep.  When I woke approximately 2 hours after initially taking the tincture, I was baseline, had a dry, puckered mouth from the tincture, and was mildly annoyed with myself that I had fallen asleep and "wasted" the experience.  

When my roommate's girlfriend came over later that evening, and essentially asked "what the hell?", I feigned amnesia and suggested that I must have answered the phone while napping (plausible, as my roommate and her both know I have a tendency to sleepwalk).  She was understanding and mildly amused.

Haven't touched tincture since--- main reasons being it's kind of expensive and I don't use salvia much anymore---  though I had several experiences with fresh leaf quids when I grew salvia plants.  I'd typically roll 8-10 big leaves into two quids, cram them into my cheeks and chew slowly, trying not to swallow.  Rinsing with mouthwash beforehand seemed to increase the effects.  Effects would start 15 - 20 minutes after starting to chew, and last perhaps an hour and a half.  I always felt baseline 2 hours after effects started.  

All quid attempts gave much more distinct effects than the tincture (go figure!): the dreamy, spaciness-- not euphoric, but somewhat pleasant nonetheless; significant CEVs and more perceptible OEVs-- mild trails and flowing objects, not unlike the effects of a threshold dose of some tryptamines, but (as I described above) "different".  If I stayed awake with my eyes closed, I would get a little hypnotized while watching "the blobs", almost as though I had begun dreaming without losing consciousness, but I could snap to alertness without much effort.  Reading or listening to the radio or TV weren't rewarding, as I'd have trouble following and interpreting the flow of thoughts and would grow frustrated, as I would again have forgotten that my difficulty was because I had chewed a quid. (I'd always eventually figure it out, only to forget again. ) Likewise, I wasn't particularly inclined towards conversation, though I could pretty easily hold one with my roommate or girlfriend when either or both were around.  Haven't since had the "communication breakdown" that I did with the tincture experience.  After chewing a quid, I typically enjoyed simple activities: listening to music without lyrics, tending my garden, meditating, looking at photos, or simply sitting quietly enjoying a cup of tea.  Not "fun", but a pleasant enough way to spend an afternoon.  

I don't have any more plants (all died of the black rot) so, no more fresh leaf. Which is just as well, as I don't really use salvia much at all anymore.  However, if or when I do again, I  think I will smoke dried leaf or perhaps some extract.  I think the real value of salvia comes in its intensity when smoking: its ability to overwhelm and bewilder, to toss you around and put you in your place, to show you how extremely remote you can be thrown from and fetched back to your everyday existence.  I find it paradoxically rather grounding.

(Wow, sorry for the long post!)

[Amomynous]

(Wow, sorry for the long post!)

But a great one. Thanks!

[Bushpig]

Hey thanks for the reports folks, and enjoyable read!

So its looking like 5ml at once was the minimum starter amount for you guys whereas i was doing multiple smaller amounts.  Seems like a similarity with smoking in that you need to get an amount in you quickly?  Whatsmore i recall reading about a reverse tolerance with salvia (not sure if this was in general or in smoke/quid form).  I shall shoot a little higher next time and see where I get.

Thanks for your stories, if there is anyone else with experience here please post

Booosh

[Amomynous]

Yea, 5 ml, all at once, seems to be what gets me there. I'll dilute with a little water (somewhere between 2.5 and 5 ml).  2.5 ml gives stronger (but more painful experiences), 5 ml slightly weaker but with little long-term burning.