Peyote substitute Oncinum Ceboletta

[Zaka]

Hi All,
New to this forum...
Like what I've read so far....

Got an interesting question here;
I just found out that some indian tribe used the orchid Oncinum Ceboletta.
Any one have any info on this.

I've got bunches of Ceboletta but never look at them in that light before!

How would one determine dosage?
Preparation?

Any thoughts

Respect
Zaka

[Anonymous]

A MOST INTERESTING SUBJECT, INDEEEED!

All we know is it's a "Peyote-subsitute"...

All we can do is get the plant, cultivate it and experiment with it!

Seriously!

 :mrgreen:

[Zaka]

Irie Teotz,

As I say I have in abundance....
Any suggestion on ingestion?

I was thinking of a whole leaf fresh tea.......rekkon I should boil it down a bit or what?

What's the prep for peyote?

Respect
Z

[laughingwillow]

Are you sure the alkaloids are found in the leaves? (I have no idea.) But the goods could be in the roots, no?

lw

[kemp]

Are we talking about this - Oncidium ceboletta aka - Hikuri Orchid?
Doesn't seem to be much information out there on it....

What's the prep for peyote?

Is that really even relevant here? Peyote and Hikuri orchid aren't of the same species so they likely will have an entirely different chemical makeup.

Certainly would be great to get more info but please be very careful if sampling.

Welcome to the forums Zaka!  

[Stonehenge]

I've heard about this one but it's supposed to be rare, expensive if you ever found it, and hard to grow. If you are looking for a peyote substitute, try san pedro.

[Anonymous]

It's always important to experiment with these things! could be something totally new!

I would try a simple hot water infusion of the cleaned and dried roots if I was you, start low, be careful!!!

[Zaka]

Irie

Not rare around here and free. Even have pods after they flower, though they are not in flower right now, not for a couple of months.
I know it was introduced on the island by the Amerindian Arawaks.
I have been wondering what they were using.....maybe this explains why they travelled up the islands with it.

I think I'll have to give this one a try. There's just too little information on it. Not really looking for heights, more curiosity and Entheo study ......Hey maybe another candidate for banned substances!

I'll try a tea with the whole plants........Caution always.....I'll start with a infusion and see how that goes....Then maybe stew it up good, if nothing happens...
Maybe add a little Justicia Pectoralis for flavour.....also a plant with historic use with the Amerindian..

If I get chance this weekend..........I'll let you all know what happens...

Respect
Z

[Amomynous]

Did the information on this flower come from Shultes' big glossy book by any chance?

Shultes was an extraordinary ethnobotonist -- that is beyond argument -- but much of the information in that book is misleading at best, sketchy at worst. Many of the plants he lists as "peyote substitutes" are a case in point. They may be a peyote substitute in a ritual sense (giving him the benefit or the doubt), but many aren't in any chemical sense. One need only look at M Smith's wonderful survey of the chemistry of the sacred cacti to see that (does Smith come around here any more?). From a chemical perspective many (most) of the peyote substitutes are inactive, but that hasn't prevented millions of web postings by enthusiastic would-be experimenters!  

I'm not saying that the flower isn't active. I'm just asking/speculating...

[JRL]

I always thought the Plants of the Gods was ghost written, it didn't seem to be worhty of the two giants Hoffman and Shultes. What say you Boomer? It does have a lot of nice pictures.

[Stonehenge]

Zaka, where are you located? How can you be sure that what you see is this exact plant? I say this plant should not be exploited for it's dubious drug potential. Teo, your reaction is exactly why so many plants have been hunted to extinction. I agree with Amom about the huge amount of misinformation that has been put out there by some highly respected authors. Much work has been little more than collecting rumors from various tribes and villages and trying to match the rumors and myths with the plants involved. Many plants used in rituals are not psychoactive but the authors seem to assume they are.

Then you have the fact that even if it was psychoactive, for the sake of argument, so what? Who cares if it is when there are so many other plants which are not endangered that we can use. I mentioned san pedro and I'll bet it's as good or better than the orchid but perhaps not pound for pound. Teo, why are you so enthused about this? Because you heard some good buzz? You think this is what will send you to nirvana?

Good point, JRL

[Bushpig]

It is 'Oncidium ceboletta' and according to C.Ratsch  who only makes a passing comment that it is known as Hikuli("peyote") and whether it has psychoactive effects is up to future research.

Be careful though, you do not know if it is posionous or what parts to consume and how etc so proceed with caution.  But certaintly worth investigating furthur.

Booshpig

[Zaka]

I'm in the Caribbean.
It's the second most prolific orchid here next to E.Ciliare.
Real easy to identify, terete leaves....looks like spring onions.....
Yeah right....woo there Teo......lets not start breaking any cities treaties, just yet....
The point of investigating this further is to ascertain what ancient local shamans had at their disposal.
Much of real history has been covered up under the guise of myths.
Have only experienced peyote once when we ripped some off from Kew Gardens when I was a kid.(c.1980, maybe I'll tell that tale one day)......Not tried San Pedro.....not sure if we have it here.....need to look in to that..Seen some fancy shaped cactus's.
I don't trust too much what scholars, PhDs, or Pharmaceutical companies have to say...I find they usually have an alterer motive.
Don't know the Shulte's book, never seen it.
I will post my experience (when I get to it) in the Shamans Hut.
Posted here first to find out what the Mescal heads have to say.....

Respect
Z

[Stonehenge]

OK Z, that's a reasonable point of view. I'm asking how you can positively ID it since there are thousands if not hundreds of thousands of species of orchids. Many of them will look very much alike and even experts can be fooled. Some can only be differentiated by the seeds, some by flowers and some by other methods. Are the locals using it to get high?

San pedro is a very common cactus which would grow well in your area. It likes watering and does not like freezing. Found in s america and elsewhere. It has usually 6 ribs but can have more. I grow it myself

[Anonymous]

PLEASE HELP US OBTAIN THIS BOTANICALS!

OFFER IT ON THE TRADE BOARDS!

MAIL IT TO MEMBERS!

PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE! PROPAGATE!

Teo, your reaction is exactly why so many plants have been hunted to extinction.

Propagate?

Teo, why are you so enthused about this? Because you heard some good buzz? You think this is what will send you to nirvana?

We should ALWAYS explore new botanicals and the potenital the may hold!!!!