No drug charges for Amy Winehouse

[laughingwillow]

Hidden camera in what appears to be the privacy of her own home.

lw

[JRL]

If I was under that kind of pressure, I'd smoke crack too,

[Syd]

i dont know bout no crack man

[Stonehenge]

Oh, I thought it was a video she made herself. That's what happens when you make assumptions. I still think she is acting kind of trashy but not as bad as I thought.

What kind of pressure are you talking about, JRL? Being rich and famous is the kind of pressure a lot of people would like to have. Do you smoke crack?

When the highly visible people take up trashy habits, the young follow suit. Maybe the pipe smoking wasn't for public display but all the arrests for drugs and drunkeness, assault and so on do not sound good. She may be a tallented singer but so what?

I'm not saying she is totally worthless, not saying that at all. I'm saying that people in the spotlight have a duty to act a little bit responsibly. Look at the beatles, they smoked cigs but never in public because they didn't want to lead their fans into a bad habit. That's the kind of thing I respect.

What are the names of some of the good stuff Amy has done?

[JRL]

Being rich and famous pretty much sucks from what I have seen. And the pressure on recording artist is huge. Don't think that its a bed of roses.

Amy(insert Jerry Garcia, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, John Lennon) did not set themselves to be role models, could that be a bit much to ask?? These people are creative artists and the machinations of big business is hard on them. I have studied these people my whole life and everyone of them struggles with it. The more sensitive and sincere they are the harder it is. David Bowies song Fame talks about it. One thing I know from having the limited local success  I have "enjoyed" is it puts you in a spot of not being able to trust anyone or believe a word they say. Here is what happens: people cater to your weakness not make stand up and get real. People don't see you they see your fame. Fame does not impress me but some people are drawn to it like a moth to a flame thrower.

My favorite Amy song is Rehab, but it might insult your sensibilties. Another good one is Me and Mr. Jones.
As far as smoking crack, you got some?

[OBODAOUR]

Amy is totally great, her music really is heartfelt and deep and you can tell she never intended for it to make her famous, and idk how the fuck you can call Madonna trash??? She's not a drug addict, she's not a psycho, and is absolutely , positively nothing like Britney Spears!!!  She has been making music and doing her thing for over 25 years, she's tirelessly working on staying fresh and putting together a total package of entertainment. She has never claimed to be the best singer or song writer, she just does her best and still manages to have number one singles and albums. I've considered her a role model for ages, and she has stuck up for people like me long before most others had the balls to even think about it. Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in, not that anyone cares!!!

Peace,
ObOdAoUr

[Stonehenge]

Opinions are like belly buttons, everyone has one. I happen to think madonna represents a portion of whats wrong with american society. It's all surface image and manipulation. The way she implied having sex with a priest and other manipulative ripoffs turned me off. Plus the fact her singing is nothing special. If you like her, OB, that's fine. She is far from the worst. She works hard and keeps in shape.

JRL, I'm happy that you have enjoyed some measure of success. I think we all deserve that in some way or another.

"Being rich and famous pretty much sucks from what I have seen. And the pressure on recording artist is huge. Don't think that its a bed of roses."

LOL, yeah it's pretty sad being rich. And for being famous, it may be annoying at times but they asked for it. They didn't turn down many interviews or guest appearances. Then they get bugged for autographs and when they get drunk and start a fight the press reports it. Oh dear, but whose fault is that?

"Amy(insert Jerry Garcia, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Dylan, John Lennon) did not set themselves to be role models, could that be a bit much to ask??"

They set themselves up to be rock stars. It goes with the territory that role model is part of it. Did you catch my reference to the beatles? They weren't perfect people either but they made an effort not to steer people into what they knew were bad habits. Once they see that legions of (mostly) young people are looking up to them and copying them, they have the choice of acting like fools and hoodlums, projecting a positive image or perhaps going into seclusion a little bit.

"These people are creative artists and the machinations of big business is hard on them."

You have to learn how to say "no" and mean it.

"My favorite Amy song is Rehab, but it might insult your sensibilties. Another good one is Me and Mr. Jones.
As far as smoking crack, you got some?"

I'll try to look those up. If you choose to smoke crack, that's your decision. Just don't tell us that it's the stress and strain of the business that made you do it. We all have to make choices in life whether we are big time or small time.

What about business people who got a lot of success? They typically had to put in 12 hour days 6 or 7 days a week for years and years to get where they got. You talk about business machinations, they have to deal with government bureaucracy, taxes, employees and the competition. That's in addition to finding and developing products, market research, quality control and the like. They didn't just record a few songs, give a few BJ's to the right DJ's and next thing they knew they were a  big success.

Yes, I know there is a lot more to succeeding in the music world than that but there is also a lot more to succeeding in business than I mentioned. What kind of a work day does Amy put in? Maybe after I hear a few of her tunes I may be more charitable toward her but she sounds like a spoiled brat and that's how I call it.

[JRL]

"They didn't just record a few songs, give a few BJ's to the right DJ's and next thing they knew they were a big success. "

You think that's what it takes to be succesful in music? Let alone have a multidecade career? Do think these great creations that we all find so much meaning in comes from people having shits and giggles? These are serious people Stoney, heavy deep creative. If it was easy more people would do it. The biggest thing that seperates the ones that "make it" from the rest of us mortals is a progidous work ethic, and a stubborn belief in their vision. Blood, sweat and tears doesn't begin to cover it. These works of genius are forged in the fire of creative intensity that consumes lives.
And to think that there is no pressure to be in that place? How would you be if your life was spending a couple of years of agonizing work and thousands of dollars on a very personel creation that was gonna be judged by everyone from Rolling Stone to lunch box folks like us. Like putting your children up for auction and seeing how much they would fetch.

You know I do feel like a success, though I labor in obscurity. I have spent my whole life with a guitar in my hands and there are worse ways to make money. People say, "joe you must be bitter because your not rich and famous" but I love where I am at. I get to play with a large number of super talented people every week that I consider friends bonded like blood. Not to many of us get to work with the people we love, it's a true blessing. After years of surviving I have come to a place where if I work as hard as I can every day, never turning down gigs or students I can make almost a living. Combined with my wife's income we are comfortable. I have had a great life I got no complaints. I did what I set out to do and how many can say that. I have gotten to meet and play with some of the best musicians in the world, some pretty damn famous. But its all about love for the art form, and fame certainly isn't a predictor of quality( in other words some of the best are unknowns and visa versa).

But I digress. I was reading Bob Dylans autobiography today and he was talking about how in the 60's his house was broken into EVERY DAY. So he moved back to New York City and when people found him every day people gathered outside his place with bull horns. telling him what they thought he should be doing. He did not set out to be the "voice of his generation" he just could write songs and wanted to take care of his family, have a good life.

LIke I said. I forever have read the life stories of the artists I admire, and what strikes me the most is how so much of what they do is a reaction to what fame does to life. Again, if you can't see that, look a little deeper, especially if you are a music lover.

[JRL]

As far as Amy's work day, you got any idea how hard touring is and how demanding giving a great performance is?? Or how much time goes into making a record??

ps: I was kidding about the crack

[Stonehenge]

JRL, the world is full of artists. It isn't just those who sing, dance, or play an instrument. In addition to painters and sculpters, there are graphic designers, auto designers, clothing designers, bridge designers and 1000's of other catagories. They are all important.

"As far as Amy's work day, you got any idea how hard touring is and how demanding giving a great performance is?? Or how much time goes into making a record??"

Is it harder than digging a ditch or doing a zillion other menial jobs in the hot sun? Is it harder than working 2 jobs a week just to stay alive? I don't think so.

And don't tell me that showing up and singing is the same as creating a Rembrant. I just do not buy that. There is skill in singing, there is skill in everything. Show me one profession that doesn't demand a lot of blood sweat and tears. Opening your mouth and belting out a song is not even in the same catagory as becoming a doctor, just for example.

Do you have any idea how much shit medical students have to go through? They have to put in 12 hour and sometimes longer days. They are required to work an occasional 24 hour shift. They put in an average of 11 hard years just earning that medical license and what goes with it. If a specialty, more years. That's before they earn even as much as a day laborer.

A broad who can not keep her nose clean for 5 minutes and made millions off her talent before she was an adult is not even in the same catagory. Having talent is not the same as being an artist.

And you tell me that being rich and famous is a terrible burden. One you would like to share, eh? What planet are you living on?

[laughingwillow]

I feel sorry for the ditch digger hooked on crack, too.

You should have been a judge, stoney, instead of just playing one on an internet forum.

lw

[laughingwillow]

Btw, stoney....... when did admiring an artist and a doctor become mutually exclusive?

And wtf do the merits of doctors and lawyers have to do with this conversation about a singer fighting addiction, anyway?

Ain't there bizznesman forums more up your alley than this here site, mon? Looks like you have been coming around just to tug on a few chains and I'm having a tough time distinguishing between your opinions and your asshole..

lw

[JRL]

Well, I feel ike I'm oissing n the wind but here goes:

"Having talent is not the same as being an artist."

Same point I made earlier, what seperates artistry from talent is years of hard work.

"JRL, the world is full of artists. It isn't just those who sing, dance, or play an instrument. In addition to painters and sculpters, there are graphic designers, auto designers, clothing designers, bridge designers and 1000's of other catagories. "

Did I ever say music is the only art form or a better art form?? It's the one I happen to deal in but I ama appreciator of all of them



"Is it harder than digging a ditch or doing a zillion other menial jobs in the hot sun? Is it harder than working 2 jobs a week just to stay alive? I don't think so."

Certanly not physcaly harder but good anything takes all the energy and time you can give it.

"And don't tell me that showing up and singing is the same as creating a Rembrant. I just do not buy that. There is skill in singing, there is skill in everything. Show me one profession that doesn't demand a lot of blood sweat and tears. Opening your mouth and belting out a song is not even in the same catagory as becoming a doctor, just for example."

Being a performing artist is a lot more than just showing up and "belting out a song" BTW How well do you sing? But the 2 hours you see on stage is just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. And you can compare making records to painting, they have a lot in common. Certainly the makers of great timeless records put that kind of effort into it. Like you think the Beatles just "showed up and belted" Sgt. Peppers?? Have you seen bands working in the studio??

You ever write many songs?? I am fairly medium as a song writer but I know what its like agonizing for weeks to find the right lines to finish a song.

Then what about hiring a band and rehearsing them so they can play your music as its intended.

Then what about the business side: The music business is big business these days, friends of mine with national touring acts talk of business politics and such as if they were Micro Soft execs.

Another clue is in the phrase "performing arts" When people spend good money on a ticket to see you perform they are expecting a monumentaly memorable performance. So the pressure is on the artist and musicians to give their very best in spite of what s happening wth them at the moment. You dig deep, kinda like Outward Bound, you find resources you never know you had, but it ain't easy.

"Do you have any idea how much shit medical students have to go through? They have to put in 12 hour and sometimes longer days. They are required to work an occasional 24 hour shift. They put in an average of 11 hard years just earning that medical license and what goes with it. If a specialty, more years. That's before they earn even as much as a day laborer."


Well my first wife was a nursing student and it looked pretty fuckin dard to me so med schools must be way worse. But at least they know they will be able to earn someday. Show business is a crapshoot.

"A broad who can not keep her nose clean for 5 minutes and made millions off her talent before she was an adult is not even in the same catagory. Having talent is not the same as being an artist."

If Amy "ket her nose clean' for 5 years there would still be paparazzi to snap it if she did fall off the wagon.

"And you tell me that being rich and famous is a terrible burden. One you would like to share, eh? What planet are you living on?"

Obviously not the same one as you. I have never chased fame and fortune. I never thought I was rock star material, I just wanted to be the real thing and to make a modest living at it. It brings me great happiness to live a life that is about creativity, more money would be nice but not at the price I have seen all these people pay.

[JRL]

My friend Lew wrote a song about it:

                         Serious

I may not be to serious about the kind of car I drive
Don't care much for jewels and such
Just need what you need to survive
Like water off the butt of a duck I let it roll
Get it off my back
But when it comes to my ax let me tell you the facts
I'm serious as a heart attack

   I'm serious, serious Jack as a heart attack, I'm serious

I didn't go on to school but I ain't no fool
Been around for a number of years
I could play that gane but I don't need that fame
MTV ain't worth the blood, sweat and tears
Just me and my music and the music in me
About this I couldn't be more austere
Broke a lot of hearts getting here including my own
So excuse me while I crank up my gear

   I'm serious, serious Jack as a heart atack I'm serious

Serious as a junkyard dog
Serious as a blinding fog
I'm serious came to play
Don't know how long I got left to stay
Might just be a day

   I'm serious, serious jack as a heart attack I'm serious


Could be my story as well, if you can't feel the passion in that.........

[Stonehenge]

JRL, you have some points. I'm not denying them. Being a performer is a lot of work same as many other things.

"what seperates artistry from talent is years of hard work"

There is something we can agree on.

lw, you can take a flying leap and I don't recall seeing you post much worth reading. If you don't like my opinions, don't read them. If you don't like me being around, go elsewhere. Maybe madonna's fan site?