The demos secret plan to cave in

[Stonehenge]

You heard it here first!

The demos are now in strategy meetings trying to figure out the best way to cave in to Bush's war without looking like the big hypocrites that they are. The plan being circulated is for them to keep on making speeches against the war but reluctantly voting to keep it going.  The plan hinges on voters being so dumb or gullible that they buy it or realize there are few other options. They can vote for the party that is for the war or for the party that claims to be against the war but votes for it anyway.

I predict big talk about bringing the troops home but then they tremble in fear of the veto threat. Bush will promise to bring back 5% of the troops by a certain date and the demos will say "good enough" and vote for whatever he puts forward. Then, Bush does pull back the 5% of the troops he promised but he replaces them with 10% more. The demos slap their forheads and say he got us again.

Next year, look for a repeat of this year.

[jikuhchagi]

sad, but not exactly unexpected...

[Stonehenge]

Yes it is sad. The USA government has become the equivalent of professional wrestling. It's all a show and a charade to impress the gullible. I expect another Iraq funding bill to pass through the "democrat controlled" congress very soon. The demos will anguish over leaving the troops unfunded and pass the bill. Every bill will pass with a different story attached each time. They are writing the script at this moment.

[Stonehenge]

In a master stroke, as part of their secret plan to fall apart at critical moments, the democrats decided to disenfranchise all the voters in Florida. That being one of the 4 big states, they figure they can easily afford to give it away. All the major democratic candidates have pledged not to even campaign in Florida.

The republicans could barely contain their glee and tried not to laugh out loud. Meanwhile, democratic voters are scratching their heads and wondering what they are smoking at the DNC. Whatever it is, I want some. It must be good stuff.

link

    
August 26, 2007

Early primary may be moot

Officials ponder next move after DNC vows to strip Fla. of delegates

BY BILL COTTERELL
FLORIDA TODAY


TALLAHASSEE - Now what?

On Saturday, the national party's rules committee gave Florida 30 days to comply with rules allowing only four states -- New Hampshire, Iowa, Nevada and South Carolina -- to pick delegates before Feb. 5. Failing to make the change will strip Florida of its delegates to the national convention.

After the DNC meeting in Washington , Florida party Chairwoman Karen Thurman said she will talk with the state Democratic Executive Committee, elected officials and other party activists in coming weeks to decide what to do next.

"We don't call it a beauty contest, the bottom line is that we now have 'a non-binding presidential primary' on Jan. 29," said Allan Katz, a Tallahassee city commissioner and Democratic National Committee member. "We have to come up with something else or we'll have no delegates to the Democratic National Convention."

There is no chance of moving the primary in the special legislative session next month, said Sen. Al Lawson, a Tallahassee Democrat. A likely option is to hold caucuses at the congressional district level after Feb. 5 and apportion delegate votes at those meetings.

said Florida is such a big and important state, with a geographic and demographic mix of voters, that candidates will want to score big. Even if they get no delegate votes in the primary, they would gain a slingshot effect into big states voting the next week.

[laughingwillow]

LOL I often wonder what you are smoking, stoney. This is a prime example.

Both the democratic and republican party in florida have decided to move up their primary dates. They have also been told by the national committees NOT to do this. They have been warned of penalties for that action. And now you are here bitching and moaning about the consequences of your state party actions. Cry me a river.

On the other hand, the penalty involved still allows florida voters to participate in the general election next year. It just limits their power in choosing the candidates to run for each party. Last I heard, the rebubs were wiping out a fourth or half of the florida delegates to choose the party representitive. Big dealio. Play by da rules or don't complain about da consequences, brawh.

PS: Did you really think the DNC was giving the state to the repugs in the general election as a penalty to moving up their primary? hahahahahaahah!!!  

lw

[Stonehenge]

LW, I have begun to suspect you are out of your tree.

"Big dealio. Play by da rules or don't complain about da consequences, brawh."

"Rules"? Millions of voters in one of the most populous states in the union do not have any vote in the primary and you are blabbering about rules? Since when are the rules issued by party insiders more important than the right of the people to select their leaders? They get to vote in the general election for whoever was decided on by the other voters but do not get to decide on who the candidate is. You, in your ivory tower smoking crack, seem to think that is just fine.

"It just limits their power in choosing the candidates to run for each party."

No, it does not "limit" their power to choose candidates, it eliminates that power altogether. Big difference, bro, that you should not overlook.

You also overlooked the fact that 5 other states have moved up their primaries to the same date with no penalty enacted. This is all about party politics and nothing else. The public be damned has become the mantra of both major parties leading to disenchantment of the voters with the present political setup. I thought the repubs were out of touch but the demos proved they are equally out of it.

Neither the repubs nor the demos care a fig about the people. It is high time, no, it's past time to toss both the bums out and turn to a third party candidate. Hill is a major socialist, Obama has started to turn in that direction and the repubs are the party of Bush and company. Not a one of them have unequivically opposed the immoral war in Iraq.

[laughingwillow]

LOL You haven't lost the right to select a candidate. You have forfeited that right. Big difference. Hold your primaries when scheduled and there is no problem. If the state party decides to move the date up without the national party consent, then the state party may be penalized when the national convention rolls around. Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it, too.  Cry me a river, sport.

lw

[Stonehenge]

You still don't get it do you? Not that you will ever get it but the demos are in full collapse. The disenfranchising of Fl voters is just the tip of the iceberg. You seem to think that whatever  some officials rule makes it right and good. Then by that logic, everything the Bush administration has done has been right and good, correct? After all, they are the officials and they made the rules.

What we have here are political bosses throwing around their weight and the public be damned. We also have the pre-programmed caving in of the demos in full display. Tell me the repubs aren't rejoicing at this exibition of typical demo ineptitude. Or is it just ineptitude?

Florida voters who were slapped in the face will likely rethink their allegiance.  If you think it makes no difference being told your vote doesn't count because party bigwigs said so isn't a slap in the face, think again. You already know I'm right, you just like arguing because I have a different point of view on GW.

[laughingwillow]

If anything, blame the state party for getting you guys into this mess. They are the ones who decided to move up your primary date. I can't understand how that fact is so tough to grasp.

This has nothing to do with global warming nor the insults you have thrown my way for my views on that topic.

Your position on this reminds me of a teenager's logic on why he/she shoudn't have to follow his parents rules.  And thinking the adults around here should agree with the out of control teenager is laughable.

The bottom line is that florida can hold its primaries at any time they choose, but shouldn't be surprised when they end up at the national convention without any delegates.

This matter should be simple enough for a responsible teenager to grasp, imo.....

lw

[laughingwillow]

Btw......

Just what have democrats in florida done for the national party to justify them moving up their primary date?  It can't be the FIASCO we've seen during the last couple of elections in your esteemed state. Even if florida gets their shit together enough to avoid all the distractions that have recently come out of that state during elections, the national parties are still responsible for calling the shots at the national convention.

btw2: Could you please provide any compelling reasons for WHY florida needs to move up their primary date?  How will the state suffer by following the national parties lead?

Please help me understand.  

lw

[Stonehenge]

Changing the subject and tossing out more insults does not advance your argument, lw. BTW, I love the way you whine about me insulting you and then in the next breath, more insults from you.

First of all, it is not "you guys", I am not a registered democrap nor do I plan to vote for any R or D. Enough of your red herrings.

The point is, as you carefully try to avoid it, that pinhead political bosses should not take away the people's right to pick their candidates. I asked you if your slavish obedience to authority extended to the bush administration as well as democrap party officials. No answer from you on that one either.

Now squirm some more, try to change the subject again and by all means, more insults. We have come to expect it from you.

[laughingwillow]

Stoney: Why should I have to answer a question about  "slavish obedience" when it has nothing to do with the issue at hand? Talk about red herring.

I ask for compelling reasons for florida to change their/your primary date. After all, that is the issue at hand. What is so unreasonable about that? I'm a little dissapointed. I had at least expected you to advance the argument (a bit)  by asking me for any compelling reasons the primary/caucus calendar should remain as it is.

Just to clarify: I'm under the impression that the issue at hand is the allegation of potential "disenfranchisement" of the florida voters due to the actions of the DNC, correct?

So, when I talk you and your, I'm addressing those who vote plan to vote in the the primaries and feel the disenfranchisment mentioned above. As I feel your passion on the subject at hand, I was under the impression that you might be one of the folks in florida planning on voting in the democratic primary. Is that such a big stretch?

Btw, I will be happy to share the reasons I feel the dnc has acted appriopriately on the topic at hand if you care to read them.

lw

[Stonehenge]

LW, you made the case that 'rules are rules' and implied that party insiders have a moral as well as a legal right to disenfranchise voters. I challenged that position. You claimed that florida voters "forfeited" their right to select a candidate. I say the voters did no such thing. As a matter of fact, the voters had little to nothing to do with the flap between the national and state democrats.

 I say that the people's right to choose trumps petty party politics. Even more so when the "rules" are made by political insiders many of them unelected. Florida voters did not "forfeit" any of their rights, the politicos took them away.

This shows how incompetent and or corrupt the demos have become.

On a side note, Bush is again asking congress for billions more to continue the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The demos are trying to figure out the best way to cave in. Who wants to bet the funding bill passes?

[laughingwillow]

Wow....

In the middle of an election cycle, the state of florida democratic and republican parties both decided to move up their primary date without the consent of the national parties. The national parties tell the state parties that if they make the change, than they will forfeit the right to add their input at the NATIONAL Convention.  Basically, the DNC is asking the democratic party in florida to continue being team players and state democrats are refusing to cooperate. The state of florida has that right. They don't have to play nice. Its their perogative. However, the state of florida does not control the national party convention.  If they exercise their right to change primary dates, than the DNC will exercise their right to  alter the state's input at the national convention.

Btw, The concept above is something I suspect most of us learned as children; respect, cooperation and consequences for our actions.


I fail to understand how the voters of florida will be harmed by followng the primary schedule set up by the national committee. But I can see many ways the national effort would/could be hindered by florida making that move in the middle of an election cycle. For one, candidates have been scheduling appearances based on the recognized schedule of contests. They set budgets in advance according to strategies to be followed. Changing the primary schedule months before the contests are to be held may forces some to alter plans and strategies that have been in place since announcing their candidacy.

As far as I can tell, its the actions of the florida democratic party that is attempting to disenfranchise the voters of your fine state.

And concerning the hanging chad election.....

Imo, that election hinged on the number of voters turning out. More voters meant the greater chance of the dems winning. Less voter numbers were thought to help the repubs. In that scenario, I feel it was the duty of the state democratic party to insure the votes would be counted if cast. So as far as I'm concerned, the florida democratic party had some culpibility for the botched results and any disenfranchisment that may have occured during that election cycle. Pushing this issue at hand (moving up the primary date in mid-election cycle) will be the action which untimately disenfranchises the voters this time around, imo.

lw

[Stonehenge]

Good to see you backed away from your contention that the voters in florida "forfeited" their right to select a candidate. Now you admit it is a spat between professional politicians but you continue with your "rules are rules" baloney. According to you, the DNC is right in everything it did.

Again I say, how is that different from the immoral things the Bush administration has done? Rules are rules, right? I notice the RNC has not disenfranchised florida repubs. Not that I like the R's but they are less idiotic at times than the demos.

My point from the beginning, before you began your flood of red herrings and personal attacks, was that the D's were being foolish to the extreme, once again. I question if it is just incompetence or part of a deal?

No takers on the bet that the demos will find a way to cave in once again and fund the Iraq and Afghan wars?