Flower/Seeding Link

[Sea Mac]

Fresh They smell like honeysuckle.

I'm Sorry if my Camera Makes them appear bigger than they are: flowers are 1/4" by 1" and Dried they don't have any smell (Little brown scraps of Plant Material 1/8" by 3/4 inch) not reuseable: alas ...

But a Close up might make you think it's Hibiscus sized: sorry! Little scraps of Nothing, dried ....

[Sea Mac]

Hey it's Seamac the Pollinator Guy and his army of secret pollinators.

 Do you rent those???
 I could probably use a few more...mine are addicted to sugar water, and are spoiled. :roll:  :roll:

You owe me for 6 male Hummingbirds: but - since you saved one's Life - I'll Waive the fees for this year .....

You must refrigerate hummingbirds to keep them from Spoiling - Like Meat .....

Not MY fault if you let them Spoil ....

[Jupe]

with a very strong scent of turpentine, or pine.  (turpenes) Glands are located on stem of plants, and flowes themselves smell very little.

Bought some hummingbird feeders on sale, trying to get them to share abit. Feisty little buggers. :roll:  :roll:  

[Sea Mac]

Bought some hummingbird feeders on sale, trying to get them to share abit. Feisty little buggers. :roll:  :roll:  

Share - ha-ha-ha!

You're going to have to wind up buying EACH Bird their OWN Personal Feeder.

[Sea Mac]

It will be interesting to see if your success is replicable.  I've tried hand pollinating before with no luck.  Hummingbirds are out of season here when the salvia's bloom.  I've thought about forcing some into flower early, but haven't got around to it.

http://www.sagewisdom.org/valdes87.html

BOTANICAL OBSERVATIONS ON SALVIA DIVINORUM
FLOWER INDUCTION EXPERIMENTS
Experimental results:

"Of 14 hand-pollinated flowers (later protected by glassine envelopes), four set seed, which was collected on 16 Dec 1980 (Fig. 3)."

I've updated the "Glassine Envelopes" used in the 1980's to modern 21st Century Technology with 2 mil Ziploc baggies 5/8" by 5/8" in Size: an almost PERFECT Fit by the way.

I MERELY Replicated his Results on a Larger Scale and OUT DOORS last year, that's All.  At least TWO researchers, 25 years apart, have demonstrated that Salvia Divinorum READILY Sets seeds IF YOU BOTHER to try Hand Pollinating it ....  Why was there no tickertape parade through the Streets of Ann Arbor in 1980? Suddenly 'I'm the First'? (Well, maybe the First out doors because San Diego has SUCH a Nice Climate.) But no one told me "Salvia Didn't set seeds" Until AFTER I'd Done it .... So I went ahead and tried it. Suddenly everyone's all excited and I'm going, like, "What's the Big Deal?" anyone can DO it and MANY will Succeed.

 :lol:  :wink:  :wink:   I do NOT know why you Failed .....

HE reported 4 of 14 set Seeds: a 28.571% success rate! I want a Statistically larger population sample please ....

If you want something done right you have to do it Yourself .....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I've been accused of "Getting Lucky" that one time with those 31 Seeds: and It makes me Laugh until I hurt myself Because of THIS http://members.cox.net/theluckyleprechaun/index.html !

Yeah, Right: I'm going to "Get Lucky" AGAIN this Year ....  (I'm PRETTY SURE by now that Luck has Nothing to do with it.)

I'll be GLAD when Jupe gets a Handful of Fertile Seeds: and we'll suddenly Stop DEBATING and Start Pollinating!    :lol:    :wink:

Oh, said with GREAT respect BTW. You are a Bit of a Legend yourself ....

[Jupe]

There have also been reliable reports of commercial Mexican growers(perhaps wandering across a previously unharvested wild patch) who saved  and shipped north thousands of salvia seeds, unfortunately, they had not kept the seeds in cool and dry conditons.... so none germinated.
Commercial growers would  probably have no need for seeds, anyway, as stem cuttings at harvest take perhaps 6 months to  6 foot maturity, and it seems seeds need a lot more attention and care, just to get them up to one foot or so.  And of course the vigor of seed stock has always been an issue.
So it seems they would actually discourage flowering, by topping and pinching back........on that note I would add that peoples hurry to bush up their plant by topping it, to my mind, almost ENSURES that it won't flower when the time comes., especially if done in the previous 3-5 months or so.
I've accidentally broken plants during that time, and none recovered enough to flower, they just resumed growing, and flowered fine the next year.
 I think only in optimum conditions, like Hawaii or similar, can the plant recover and either put out mutiple racemes, or at least one.

As Seamac understands so well

If you want something done right you have to do it Yourself

[Sea Mac]

There have also been reliable reports of commercial Mexican growers(perhaps wandering across a previously unharvested wild patch) who saved  and shipped north thousands of salvia seeds, unfortunately, they had not kept the seeds in cool and dry conditons.... so none germinated.

If you want something done right you have to do it Yourself

Yeah: I know who did the germination test on that lot of Seeds, too. I knew you weren't kidding me when you said Dan Came by. I'm really stoked that your garden was important enough to him for him to swing by and see it. I'll bet you talked about a LOT of things (Myself included) .....

But only us "insiders" know about the 1,000s and the 30 that didn't grow ... it wasn't public knowledge (Until Now ... ).

You should be able to get NICE Pictures of Seeds Ripening NOW. Did you use any of the Saddlebacks yet? I want a Picture of your patch covered with capture baggies ....  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

[Sea Mac]

Over a year later: I'm drowning in a forest of Salvia divinorum TREES! I've got Dozens of Plants everywhere!

A Small Portion of one of my 2 gardens in Late January 2008:


Here I am on Christmas Morning 2007:


And the same plant 5 weeks later on Groundhog's Day:

I thought I'd climb "Sally" (that plant's name) here up to the Giant's castle for some golden eggs just like Jack did ...

What to look for:


Salvia Divinorum seeds almost ripe:


Namaste, Friends ...
Carl McCall

[Sea Mac]

I guess you want another update of my garden?

http://www.salviasource.org/index.php?p ... ter_id=481  




I have to climb a Ladder to service my tallest plants now!

Happy Gardening!

[Stonehenge]

Wow, those are some big plants, Sea Mac. What zone are you in? Nice job in any case.

[Sea Mac]

Wow, those are some big plants, Sea Mac. What zone are you in? Nice job in any case.

Zone 11. It never gets down in the low 30's in Coastal San Diego.

[Wakinyan]

I'm just wondering...with all this hand pollination being done if anyone has thought to wonder if perhaps the pollination itself was time sensitive? Also, what methods are being employed? Are pollen cocktails being made of various cultivars? This could increase seed set as well as simply cutting the stigma off and leaving the style intact as much of the inhibition that that affects pollen generally occurs at the stigma or towards the top of the style. Mixing batches of pollen helps ensure diversity. Toss in a bit of foreign species pollen to dilute and you have allowed the slower grains of compatible pollen a chance to express their genes in the seedlings as well. Never mind the possibility of a pollen cocktail helping to get a few foreign genes in there as well. How many seeds are in each pod? Most hybridizers over pollinate their plants when attempting a straight forward cross and thus reduce their chances of some more novel recessives that might be expressed if the slower growing pollen grains only had a chance of making it to the ovule. Thinking of it this way...if you put 200 grains of pollen on a stigma and your plant only produces 4 seeds...you don't have a chance of any of the slower ones making it. Put 4 grains of pollen on that stigma though and you have a much higher chance as all 4 grains may make it to the ovule. Many times foreign species pollen will abort in the top portion of the stigma or style. Foreign species pollen generally tends to grow slower as well...again....making a pollen cocktail of 2 parts compatible and 4 parts semi-compatible will increase your chances of getting those slower germinating pollen grains to move into your seedlings thus resulting in more diversity. Of course, ensuring your not putting too much of this pollen on your stigma cut or otherwise will help as well. I prefer the cut style method myself and shorten the style down to 1/2 its original length or shorter if the pollen donor's stigma was shorter. As a general rule of thumb you don't want the recipients style to be longer than the pollen donor's style. This is yet another reason for cutting the style. As the endosperm portion is often times the portion that fails in such a cross...the embryo can be rescued via tissue culture when the pod aborts early. Otherwise, you may attempt to keep the pod from aborting by not utilizing too much "incompatible" pollen in the pollen cocktail. Serial dilutions are generally effective for this.... A good pollen cocktail can be dried and frozen for later use as well. Never mind the fact that you can then utilize this pollen to pollinate the cut style's early next time your plants flower. Simply take a razor blade the next time they flower and slice them open. This allows the pollen more time to reach the ovule if you have a plant that has a short window for pollination...you have effectively increased that window and ensured an early pollination...no worries about missing the window.
Just some food for thought,
Inyan

[Wakinyan]

I'm just wondering...with all this hand pollination being done if anyone has thought to wonder if perhaps the pollination itself was time sensitive? Also, what methods are being employed? Are pollen cocktails being made of various cultivars? This could increase seed set as well as simply cutting the stigma off and leaving the style intact as much of the inhibition that that affects pollen generally occurs at the stigma or towards the top of the style. Mixing batches of pollen helps ensure diversity. Toss in a bit of foreign species pollen to dilute and you have allowed the slower grains of compatible pollen a chance to express their genes in the seedlings as well. Never mind the possibility of a pollen cocktail helping to get a few foreign genes in there as well. How many seeds are in each pod? Most hybridizers over pollinate their plants when attempting a straight forward cross and thus reduce their chances of some more novel recessives that might be expressed if the slower growing pollen grains only had a chance of making it to the ovule. Thinking of it this way...if you put 200 grains of pollen on a stigma and your plant only produces 4 seeds...you don't have a chance of any of the slower ones making it. Put 4 grains of pollen on that stigma though and you have a much higher chance as all 4 grains may make it to the ovule. Many times foreign species pollen will abort in the top portion of the stigma or style. Foreign species pollen generally tends to grow slower as well...again....making a pollen cocktail of 2 parts compatible and 4 parts semi-compatible will increase your chances of getting those slower germinating pollen grains to move into your seedlings thus resulting in more diversity. Of course, ensuring your not putting too much of this pollen on your stigma cut or otherwise will help as well. I prefer the cut style method myself and shorten the style down to 1/2 its original length or shorter if the pollen donor's stigma was shorter. As a general rule of thumb you don't want the recipients style to be longer than the pollen donor's style. This is yet another reason for cutting the style. As the endosperm portion is often times the portion that fails in such a cross...the embryo can be rescued via tissue culture when the pod aborts early. Otherwise, you may attempt to keep the pod from aborting by not utilizing too much "incompatible" pollen in the pollen cocktail. Serial dilutions are generally effective for this.... A good pollen cocktail can be dried and frozen for later use as well. Never mind the fact that you can then utilize this pollen to pollinate the cut style's early next time your plants flower. Simply take a razor blade the next time they flower and slice them open. This allows the pollen more time to reach the ovule if you have a plant that has a short window for pollination...you have effectively increased that window and ensured an early pollination...no worries about missing the window.
Just some food for thought,
Inyan

[Sea Mac]

interesting.  

But Salvia D pollen is invisible ... That is to say you need a microscope to see individual pollen grains.

[Wakinyan]

I understand many pollens are very microscopic. Trust me, I've looked at a fair amount of pollen under the microscope so I understand your dilemma. This is why a good pollen cocktail can also come in handy. By performing serial dilutions you can figure out approximately how to mix your pollens for optimal results depending on what you wish those results to be...i.e. if your goal was to bring out recessive genes you could have any species of plant as a donor/diluent mixed in to dilute. If your goal was to the original species pollen so as to bring in another species and to do so in such a manner as to keep enough of the original pollen in place so as to encourage a cross that would normally simply result in a few immature embryo's and an aborted pod..then again...this method will help you.
The basics:
1:1 mix of pure pollen/no additive pollens from any other species compatible or simicompatible.
Followed by 1:2, 1:4, 1:8, 1:16, 1:32, 1:64 dilutions all the way out till you get what you are after. Admittedly, you will have to do some experimentation here and once you have the approximate pollen dilutions figured out for your goal then you may find that you need to find a more specific range within those broad parameters listed above.

For the above. You could start out with say 0.2ml's of pollen for your 1:1 pure unmixed pollen.

Next for your 1:2...: 0.2 ml's of pollen of each species/cultivar for a total of .4ml's pollen mixed in your pollen container.

For your other dilutions: simply remove 0.2 ml's from the previous mixed pollen and put this in a new tube labeled 1:4 and place a different diluent or non-compatible pollen in the same proportion of 0.2ml's. You don't even have to use pollen as your diluent. You may chose to use diatomaceous earth for its small particles or even confectioner's sugar or powdered sugar.