Sprintime

[CJ]

Got tired of the old post sitting.  

     Come on. Someone got to have a question to MSSmith

     Anyways,in a month or two, I am going to install a drip system.to about 30 planters of cacti. Each planter has one to four cacti.

     This will not be a how to do,but if your are interested,you will pick up on the proceess you may adapt to your own 'garden'. The limitation is that all species involved or are placed in possibly seperate micro enviorments so that the amount of water,with adaptable variation(!/2 GL,-1G.L etc..ofamount water)...can be accodimated in an established set time application. You also have a basic notion of flow rate,(which drip is very forgivable about),but how much pressure/size line/total amount/time still factors if the picture is big.

     In my case it is easy,for they are all a particular cacti of a particular South American Grouping, and enviiroment can prolly be generalizied. I prolly have two ,right next to each other, to cover most bases Amounts of Gallons per hour can be contolled by regulated rated drip emitters. Pressure Regulator will help on several fronts,as will filter. I will be using some form of 1/2 inch poly. Any PVC tends to be 3/4`' at the valvw /spigot end.

     The interestiing reason is the inclusion of a firtilizer feed mechanism.

     This system is something you can dis-connect and re-connect,each spring and fall...or simply not utilized when not needed.''

     Once installed,this can really be termed a 'convienence'in your life,depending on the size of your garden

     For me.it will be fun,since I did irrigation for around 22 years, but this can be simple when grasped,and it is not a big project.

     Something you can.and very much may want,to do.

     Even inside.

     Edit-no rudness Stoney,yours is a good topic.

[Stonehenge]

Hey, it's a good topic, the more the better. Didn't we discuss this once before? I know I talked about it with someone. Yours is a drip system. I would like to use bubblers on some cactuses. They would have to have the root system already formed and keep the stem out of the water with just the roots dangling into the solution below.

Stoney

[CJ]

You might be thinking of hydroponics. Personally,I am leery of the subject because of cirtain implications. I remember coming accross a site once,and I read it for fun. There was a system there called the 'waterfarm',that used some kind of artificial soil like medium,and looked like it had some kind of drip.

     that`s as much as i know,and my consideration is strictly outdoors and like you,with cacti.

     As the topic suggests,I will be expanding on this. If you want to grow cacti indoors,it may be possible.

[laughingwillow]

They say a pachnoi can take a passle of water during the growing season. Pervianus, too. Bridgessii's are a little less water tolerant, in my experience.

If your system is outside, I would prolly be most concerned with mother nature raining excessively on your spiney parade. But I suppose you could just shut off the drip system during a monsoon, eh?

lw

[CJ]

The wintertime is when i worry about that, since i do not believe it is natural for them to be both wet and cold. I do keep them under the eaves.but they still get rained on.However this can be good,in that the salts and stuff left over from you firtilizing are then washed out.

     Nice thing about a drip system is that you control it,either manually(You open and try to remember to close the valve) it`s always easy to forget,the roses have gotten all night waterings,but they are in the ground you`d notice the pots. And they do make those mechanical timers for hose spigots.

     Or,you operate from a Irrigation controller. A good one will have some kind of program or option that you can do an automatic watering between a stretch of time. In my case,working with a Irritrol Raindial plus;one option,if i dedicate a program to it(Programs A,B,anC) I can water once to every 15 days. About right for me during most of latespring,Summer, and Early Fall. During the wintor,the Irrigation controller is turned to the 'off' position, so no watering occurs,anyway.

     So bases are covered. And,like I have said,You can literally detach this system((pullthe stakes and emitters,leave them lying, or wrap them up in place with ties,and take your cacti in for the winter. Come spring,bring the pots back out,and re-install the emitters to the pots.

     In a sense,this is what I do in my vegetable garden every year,works fine!

[Stonehenge]

A drip system is really just a form of hydro. It's ebb and flow with a very long ebb cycle so the substrate dries out. I've been thinking about doing hydro outdoors to take advantage of the free sun. I saw a website someone put up who was doing hydro cactus growing. I think he was in new zealand. As long as the stem is kept away from excesse moisture and the roots are in oxygenated water, I see no reason why any species couldn't be grown hydroponicly. I've been meaning to do this for over a year and keep putting it off. Oh, the curse of being lazy!

Stoney

[CJ]

Well,outside,drip is simply the contolled application of water applied to a soil,or a growing medium. Importance plays with the growing medium because of studies showing how the water will spread out depending on the nature of the soil (growing medium).clay based/more subsurface spead. A sandy medium/ just the oppossite.

      In pots,the concept is drainage and there are varying views as to how long one wants the roots to be wet/dry. I prefer the roots to go totally dry for at least a few days. My growing medium, because i am lazy 'also', is supersoil, though there may be better. It seems to hold a bit of water for the roots for some days,instead of passing it all through immediattly, as some proposed sandy or high drainage soils will. Having a hole at the bottom of the pot is of extreme importance.Gawd!!

     Also kept in mind is that at least I am concerned with covering it all,32 pots,as oppossed to micromanaging a plant or a very small grouping. So I have set limitations i must be aware of,which goes further...

       Now,I simply work with my enviroment, Actually,I have two micro enviroments side by side,simply two adjoining sides of the house,causing variation in light and even how much rain will hit the pots under the eaves

     Not all how I`d like it. Jus` to say,I was in the irrigation business(applied/not sales) for around 22 years,so i learned cirtain 'things' which do help me through. So smaller plants perferably in hanging baskets(closer-more protected by the eaves) on one side,larger plants along the long side,in large pots,my personal preference. Two or more simular or same cacti to a pot;it is my unscientific belief they like it that way. And there are pups everywhere,even during the winter.

     Okay,Iv`e covered set and setting,5 -6 hours of morning sun on one side,8-9  on the long side.There is a third side where I experiment with what I suspect(don`t know) MSSmith likes. Limited and somewhat filtered sun causes the cacti to go very green,and they still grow.

     I can`t activley oxigonate, and no real desire toexcept for the fact that in drip, the water is applied from above. But then,I am really dependent(and choosy) is on the growing medium on how much 'air' reaches the roots.

      But I can positively auto firt, which is what i will cover. And this will be for a large grouping of plants,two sides of a house. 32 pots at varying hieghts and stages of growth. One little clue,cacti are very forgiving.

     And if i am not suppossed to be mentioning product brands,I will try a work around. But I do have my preferences.

[CJ]

Jus to mention,I got the firt unit a week or so ago,sitting in a box in the den. Since my plants are already ouside,nothing prevents me(besides a hurt back and time) from getting started,wire(5 strand in sheath) is rolled by an existing valve(Roses) on the same manifold,have to get under the house and run it to the controller. Also need to install a valve appropiatte for drip (Toro makes a good one,accepts flows under a gl. per minute),a pressure regulator,a filter,then the firt inject connections then run the 1/2" poly behind the pots,but also on the short side,under the eaves. 1/4 to the pots

     lot`s of fun,      

[Stonehenge]

Come to think of it, I would really like to have a drip type system like that for my outdoor plants. As it is now, I can't go away for more than a couple days without some of my stuff dying on me. I was thinking maybe a sprinkler type controller would be good and use it with a tank instead of water pressure. Do you think that would work? It would be cheap. The other way might be to have a solenoid valve controlled by a timer which is basicly what a sprinkler controler is, I think.

Stoney

[CJ]

Was going to my other box and saw this... I think in a cirtain way were understanding each other. If your comment about the valve with solenoid was origonal thinking, or if you realized the app.,that is good thinking. Simply put, that is how an auto system is done,sometimes the demand is so low,the solonoid is the system "valve". In my app,there will be more flow, thus a valve w/solenoid.

     Why the tank Stoney? Are you not in circunstances of 'pressured' water?  Are you concerned about high water pressure?

    That,most of the time,can be controlled with a very cheap preset Pressure Reg(I`m thinking 35psi,because pressure translates into whats termed head,rise of water{I`m trying to avoid a bad joke} because I have to go all the way up to the eaves. Your tank would have be well off the ground anyway,because that is the classic conception of 'pressure' Hieth and gravity There is a simple equation,and of course i forget it .. wait, it`s  2.31ft/psi, jus looked it up in the 'Small Water System Operation and Maitanaince' course I took through correspondence with the Ca.U of Sacramento. It didn`t gain me much,except as a precurser that i could still learn and use a calculator. So now i am a plumber  and snake urinal lines. Well, it can be better,and does be. Mostly. More money.

     Of course you could pressurise your tank and even force some air into the water,but that would be a lot of bother,and minimal results.Was this your thinking,an air compressor/ water feed to tank? A lot of bother,but again thinking. Or Standard ,you run a pump with set pressure to your solenoid valve,..in all scenarios linked  by low voltage wire to a contoller,it being on reg. house current. Theres variations of that I won`t go into ,interesting but limited/pain.

     That sprinkler timer,can do an awlful lot, Stoney. An Awful Lot. Look up a Rainbird site,or an Irritrol, it will give you good info. Could Be more like a computer,the better models,with excellent options,different programs for diff. needs.

     One thing I do know,it would be to you I would consult for plant needs,I have rudimentary knowledge,and a few tricks,but plant knowledge for me,is way more in your, and yours camp,I needed to be told what someone required,how much water,watering periods,for a particular species. It`s jus that I understand cacti.

 But  fortunatly,most plants arn`t arbituary,they have a range they will tolorate.

     So the question remains,why a tank? every thing else I can help/advise,or you are stronger in anyways.

[Stonehenge]

No absolute need for a tank, I was just thinking I didn't want full water pressure on the system the whole time I was away and maybe something gives out and then I have water going full blast into the ground. I wonder how much that would cost per week? I know people have sprinkler systems connected to city water, that's a common setup. Those would be connected and set up properly but what I was thinking about would be something you would hook up just before you left though it could be used while you are here to save work. The thing is that if you have it on the timer and it rains a few times, you could have your plants standing in water for a few weeks or longer. Standing water is just as harmful to leafy plants as it is to cactuses.

What you said got me thinking about a few things. Do those controlers control more than one circuit? Each circuit would be to a different hose. It could come off the same input but two different output paths. If you could have two circuits then you could have the cactus one go every 6 days, for example, and the plant one every two days. In winter of course you'd have to change it.

If I could hook it up to the outside faucet and go away and let it operate without worrying about something springing a big leak, that would be great. I wouldn't worry too much about leaks in the hoses going to the plants, just leaks in the part that always has pressure on it.

Stoney

[CJ]

Yes to every thing Stoney,and then some! and then more!!

      First of all you establish a Point of Connection(POC) There are preferable locations for this,like right where the water enters your house. Gen. though there is a Hose spigot 'somewhere'. You unscrew that out,install a tee,Reinstall the hose spigot. You immediattly put a manual valve on the sieways outlet(the middle outlet),of the tee,The middle outlet is facing down,and make sure the valve is closed then, turn your water back on. You have established your point of connection,and can then use that valve as the source for whatever you are doing

     People use hose spigots for Poc`s but they are combersome and incorrect.

Excess watering can be handled in a number of ways, butmostly for you to be there to turn the controller'off' or in standby mode but i believe,though have not worked with them much, there are rain or moisture sensors. More pain than they are worth I havn`t needed to living, in whats called a medditeranean type climate.

I kind of hinted in the beginning the description was going to be verygeneral,cause otherwise,the detail would overwhelm me, Might as well give a class,there is that much to know.

But it works well enough if you are around and remember,as fancy as thouse controllers for Irrigation are (Controllers..not Ttimers,) you are the Ruler.

     And Yes, those controllers will do pretty much everything you asked and much, much more. Check out rain bird,Irritrol,And Toro irrigation sites. They will,on their sites also prolly have 'how toos; Buried in their pages. I`m serious And mabe even can fax you material also.

     I want to help everybody,but the info you want is both very correct but so very detailled. Mabe you can even help me...

    I can,this week ,take pictures of my own drip installations,and i would like to download them to you. Iv`e got a good digital camera and a mission now it seems, You will see a lot, How I have installed and It will answer a lot of your questions. You may even post them,if you wish. I would wish it,being ignorant how. In fact,Iv`e jus learned how to send pics,usually dependent on sending CD`s. Pretty pathetic,but we all have levels of skill in diff areas of life.

You want to run with that? I will cirtaintly be taking pictures of my cacti job,but I`m not ready yet. But I can show you what I have already done,valve installations,controller,the whole well, 7 and 1/2 yards?

     Too many questions,and mabe you know how to post these for every one,so give it some thought! You will learn a lot that way,jus visually....

[Idgit]

whats the best cacti for the magic, pound for pound?

[Idgit]

if you know what i mean

[JRL]

I don't know what you mean, what you mean?