The cosmic serpent DNA and the origons of knowledge

[wolf]

has anyone read the book by jeremy narby??

brings a lot of experiences into focus, i found. blew my mind (once again) on the scope of how complex and intelligent that little molecule just is... had some great discussions about it, would love a few more...

[wolf]

guess not, if interested check out :

http://deoxy.org/narbystew.htm

[Bushpig]

Thanks wolf, I've not but take a look.


Boooshpig

[fuzz]

yeah i read the Cosmic Sepent. I loved it. i been working on a review/notes, which you can find here:
http://www.gamatron.net/cosmicserpent.htm
(if anyone is into editing stuff, lets edit that text and write a full on review. to add some images to the review, i already made images with multicolored serpents going up a ladder, in a jungle setting)

What i enjoyed the most about the book was that it was a lot about the process of Jeremy Narby. he speaks with humility, and awe, about his occasionaly obsessive mind and his doubts. he searches, yet  he feels the mysterious and never falls into the error of thinking he really knows. As psychedelics do, ayahuasca destroyed Narby's earliest blind faith in modern science, and allowed him to look at it with a more inquisitive mind. Narby doesnt close his mind, but instead finds a way to make peace between his classically trained scientifical mind and the part of him that contains all that is ancient and traditional.

Narby's closing of his Cosmic Serpent:  
"all things considered, wisdom requires not only the investiguation of many things, but contemplation of the mystery......"

fuzz likes  

[wolf]

definately a great read. loved the detail in his notes at the back.
learnt couple years back in university, from a 'christian' professor (not that i'm antichristian,but they do generally disagree with evolution ),  that (at least for him)  darwins theory, or at least the underlying principles (if not the actual mechanisms), are proven!!  just a couple of loose ends left to tie up, like that little coded DNA molecule, and how it came about......

like your thoughts fuzz, personally i think we just have too many damn choices. would be nice to go little more to the savage side of life.

can see jeremy narby really put heart and soul into his book, risking being the laughing stock of the scientific community. would be interested to see how other scientists view the theory. read somewhere on the website that 2 biologists went to latin america and partook of the sacred brew, with certain goals in mind. the one actually 'saw' a phenomenon that she had been puzzled over for some time... ?!

[fuzz]

yeah, we seem to be able to make almost an infinity of choices. some could call it hell, others heaven, others freedom, others plain absurd or mysterious life. hahaahahahah.
 :shock:

i think the scientists you are refering to might be a story also told in the book: Hallucinogens, a reader.


http://www.erowid.org/library/books/hal ... ader.shtml

the story written by Narby, is called: Shamans and Scientists. It mentions 3 molecular biologists who in 1999 "travelled to the Peruvian Amazon to see wheter they could obtain biomolecular information in ceremonial ayahuasca sessions conducted by an indigenous shaman".
One scientist in an American genomics company, another a professor at a french university and member of the CNRS, and a professor at a Swiss university and director of research at a federal agriculture research station.

[In interviews conducted in their respective laboratories four months after the Amazonian experience, the three biologists agreed on a number of points. All three said the experience of ayahuasca shamanism changed their way of looking at themselves and at the world, as well as their appreciation of the capacities of the human mind. They all expressed great respect for the shaman's skill and knowledge. They all received information and advice about paths of research they were on.] (page 181)
http://www.hofmann.org/Reviews/grob-hallucinogens.html

"Some observers have suggested that shamanism, as classically defined, is reaching its end. But bringing shamans and scientists together seems more like a begining".

[senorsalvia]

That comment about shamanism coming to an end:::::   could you please elaborate?    Sure I can see how a crossover/synthesis between the scientific community and traditional shamanic practices could occur, but I balk at the idea that indigenous shamanism has lost, or will lose any of it's adhereants or intristic value.............  (Maybe it's just me, but I'm betting I'm not alone in supposing I'd get alot more mileage 'breaking open the head' down on the Orinoco riverbank than sitting in a clinical lab somewhere)------------  Set and setting; right?   --------  sal

[Satori]

Where does it imply that a scientist is a dude/dudette that is bound to tripping in his/her lab?

Reading from scientists that do Aya, it is mostly in a junglesetting. But they might have a different reference frame in their tripping and later reflections.
A more, what we would call, scientific mindframe.

[Amomynous]

I drank aya in the jungle with some scientists once. They got it, as far as I can tell.

[senorsalvia]

I meant that the implication of shamanism giving way to a more clinical. more Western interpretation of any 'trip' that transpires, is somehow condescending to those that have a different world view and see their experience through a differing cultural filter.........{not like I'm really worried that all the indigenous peeps are gonna 'go Western' anytime soon........  sal..........  P.S.   glad to hear those science types 'got it'  

[fuzz]

i dont think i understand what you mean senor.

are you saying that you believe that there are some correct and some incorrect ways to experience plants?

[senorsalvia]

Not at all....  I'm saying just the opposite...  We all view our experiences through the lens of whatever cultural/educational/socio/religious aspects we bring to the table (IMHO)   That's why I cringe when I hear someone say things like "The Mazatecs only chewed Sally; any other mode of usage is an affront and or distortion of what Salvia can offer", things like that....  Surely you have heard the oft repeated claim by some that only substances that grow naturally are worth our entheo time, eh??  There are those that would never consider using a chem lab to acquire, say, 95% pure DMT, but at the same time, they would have no problem grinding up some MHRB and then using a bunch of chemical solvents and doing an A/B pull to arrive at the same 95% pure...  I guess it's sort of a feeling that I percieve a kind of 'affected elitism' in some journeyers perceptions of what constitutes the "Correct" way to utilize.......Hope that offers some clarification......................  sal

[fuzz]

oh ok:) cool, thanx for clarifying your point of view Senor.

[fuzz]

i finally finished editing my review of the Cosmic Serpent.
here it is:
http://www.gamatron.net/cosmic_serpent.htm

if anyone has any comments, stuff to add/substract, i'd love to hear them

other review i wrote, this one in french, with some great links to very interesting reviews and critiques of the book:
http://manue23.blogs.psychologies.com/a ... _cosm.html