do all 'active' trich's have a symiliar bitter taste?

[Avery L. Breath]

I've noticed while trimming and planting cuttings this fine morning, that through the nibble test, some like the peruvianus and pachanoi's have a signature bitter alkaloid taste to them, while others, like my tiny T. grandiflorus and monstrosa hybrid numbers both tasted kinda like a cucumber sorta...... or rather they lacked that distinct bitter component that the pedro's and peru's have.

Anybody else care to speculate?  Could it just be alkaloid varience or something?....... was under the impression that most trich's where active, and was just theorizing that the active ones would have a distinct and symiliar taste.

[CJ]

I can only speculate,but many trich`s I think are not active. there are rumours of some that are not appreciatted,and also rumours that one or so have a different 'active' than say Pedro. Tercheckii has been described this way.

     I can go out and look at two plants,sold to me as the seed origonated and the clone origonated of the same thing ,and tell you they are two different Trichocereus,and also that one looks like a Tercheckii,the other,well,I bet it taste like cucumber,not that taste is a determiner,at most perhaps an indicator...mabe. One grew one foot,the other well over four. And it looks a bit like a cucumber!

     What suprised me in a prominant write up of cacti,that trichocereus Knuthianus was either low or non-existant, it looks jus` like a classic within- range -Trich,but here i`m going by appearances, not even the ole 'taste' test.

     I have a strong suspicion that other alkoloids,perhaps other constitutes,may contribute to the taste. there is something that is in many of them(need that write-up,starts w/a 'G') that isn`t 'active' I think,but is very prevalent,as well as others.

[Avery L. Breath]

Interesting CJ, thanks for your reply.  So......... in your speculation, taste is perhaps not an acurate indicator of significant alkaloid presence?

It seems most everything I've tasted with alkaloids in em, be it plant or cacti have been...... unpleasant at the least., but clearly their is still speculation.

Your right though, that it brings up the question, do all alkaloids = bitter taste, and if so, is it a signature bitter taste?  I know their is alot of debate about the presence of alkaloids in plants and more specifically, what they are there for, one theory being that the alkaloid taste was an evolved trait to deter would be cacti eaters.

[JRL]

Well, I think given the relativley large concentration of alkaloids in a viable source tricho, you would be able to taste it.

I never heard any reports of grandiflourus being active, but it sure is easy to get those beautiful flowers.

[Avery L. Breath]

Yeah, theirs a couple grandiflorus's down at my local homey boy right now, with huge red trumpet flowers.  Almost bought em, never seen a trich bloom here in Idaho before... musta just come in from out of state.

[CJ]

Grandiflora is an excellent example. here is another hmmm. 'perhaps' way of cluing in on the nature of a particular trich. Or not.

      It has to do w/the flowers. From what Ive read, inferred by several sources,(and this particularly includes grandiflora),the white nocturnal flowers was suppossed to be an indicator that a Trich. might have active properties. Red was more in the ornamental class, but yes,beautiful.

      A few years ago ,I bought a grandiflora for it`s beautiful red flowers. Something else was on my mind also,jus` wondering,like you AVLB. then somewhere,I did read of a supossed difference. I also noted at some point, of SS making a differentiation between red and white flowering grandiflora. It was in the previous catalogue, or one of their publications...though they were not directly saying anything about the properties of the cacti,only that there might be two varieties. Someday I`ll track down the white variety,though very appreciativly,a member here traded me for one of his flowering trich`s. It`s trying to flower still,while my grandiflora hasn`t  even hinted at a flower for..three years(?)

      The bit about the grandiflora,the two varieties, still interests me tho`.... I should ask.

[Avery L. Breath]

Hmmm, interesting you'd read that CJ....... didn't know that myself, but theirs alot I don't know.  A fine example though perhaps.  So this is particularly a trait of trich's?  Or just grandiflora's?  Certainly not all cacti though right?  I mean lopho's flower colors vary right.  But beats me.  I don't think anybody has ever come up with an extensive chart linking specifit trates (including the taste test) and such yet that I know of.  Although Trouts notes are said to be pretty damn good.  Not to mentions M.S. Smiths Narcotic and hallucinogenic cacti papers.

[CJ]

I think they way it works,AVLB, is that ,and here I will walk that there plank. Prolly most,hell.., all active trichs will have white night blooming flowers. I`m begging to be wrong here,but I would not be suprised.

     However,not all white night blooming trich`s will be active! that`s the differentation.

     Based in science well,hell,I mean heck, I`m jus` going on the little Iv`e read. Nothing here I`m posing as fact,but then,you were jus` suppossing about taste,also.

     Also,I`m well aware of the rule in life that nature reserves to herself the right of a exception, many times nothing more than an adaptive trait.

     What comes to mind is a thread in the Desert that I think, that speculated Mescaline, in Trichocereus,performing some other functions than deterring predators/parasites. And perhaps ,simular Alkaloid(s)s perform whatever function(s) jus as well..thus,not all Trichs. are active,etc.

     One thing to remember, Lopho is related only by being a cacti,and exists in a different enviorment/set of conditions,shared I beleive by a parsity of water. It is also a much more diverse producer of alkaloids than trich. Also,one or both, may have a particular interesting chemical as a artifact, or better put,outright bred for this singular thing.Especially in Pachnoi/peruvian/Bridgesii,because they have been interacting w/humans for so long. thousands of years,it seems. What do I mean? the difference between hemp and top quality..well, you get the idea.

     BTW,I`m buying a white flowering Grandiflora now,as a result of this thread. I expect nothing from it,but it will be nice to have, if nothing else, for some flowers finally!. And Perhaps, i`ll do the ole "taste' test on it ,someday

[EA-1306]

Even 'less bitter' active specimens such as the RS0005 bridgesii are quite bitter.