Bush wins again. Democrats roll over

[Stonehenge]

Once again the phony act in congress came to the usual conclusion. Did you think the democrats were against continuing the war? Think again. The republicans are in the minority and are divided on the war since much of the public is against it. The democrats are constantly claiming to be against the war and trying to shut it down. That's what they say anyway. In actual fact it's just an act, just a charade to fool the public. Bush has no power to pass legislation and the republicans can't push it through without cooperation from the democrats who gave it to them. Again.

Who out there is going to tell me with a straight face that the democrats are fundementaly different from the repubs or that they are the ones who will get us out of iraq and put things right? Democratic senate majority leader Ried voted in favor as did Hillary and Obama. Those are your cherished democrats voting for the war with no restrictions on it. No timetable for withdrawal or anything else. Bush can't do all that by himself, he needs the democrats to do his bidding and they sure did.

Comment?

[Stonehenge]

This kind of exposes the phony business. The demos campaigned as the party in opposition to Bush and his policies. In particular they presented themselves as against the war. People thought they were voting for those who would stop it. When it comes right down to it, the demos support the war too.

The democrats are just the puppet on the left hand while the repubs are the puppet on the right hand. They put on a punch and judy show pretending to fight each other but they take orders from the same shadowy figures. Individual R or Ds might be good but the parties are crooked. We need a new broom to come in and it will have to be a third party. The system is broken and can't be fixed.

Some of you may be shell shocked. I know cenacle is disgusted with what happened. Where do we go from here? Is everyone just going to keep voting democrat and hope they come to their senses some day?

[cenacle]

Stoney--I have thought long and hard about what happened and can only conclude that the War Machine is nearly unstoppable once it is rolling. Only when popular opposition is so great, and threatens the political lives of so many, does it begin to slow down some.

We stopped a war with Iran, we have not yet stopped the Occupation of Iraq. The Democrats...fuck if I know truly, but I think they are cowardly biding their time until they get the Republicans in Congress on board. September or so. Another 300, 400 dead men and women. Who knows how many Iraqis. Who the fuck knows what else will happen. But it looks like the fall will begin the pull out.

They all want it over before 2008's electoral cycle. Doesn't it just make you want to kick some fat rich white political fatass all over the FUCKING ROOM?

We put the Dems back in charge of Congress. We stopped a second war. That's all so far. I carry that thought around like a teddy bear. The rest is undone. We'll see.

[Stonehenge]

cenacle, that sounds a lot like the guy with the girlfriend who swears she is true but he keeps finding her shacked up with the sugar daddy of the week. He forgives her every time hoping against hope that next time she will be good.

"The Democrats...fuck if I know truly, but I think they are cowardly biding their time until they get the Republicans in Congress on board."

I don't know, cen, the demos had their chance and they rolled over and played dead. They talk a good game of opposing Bush but when it comes down to crunch time, they cave. If they have to wait until the repubs come on board before doing anything, they are not working for us. I would say they are a little better than the repubs but not much. They voted for the war and have voted to continue it ever since.

Someone explain to me again why voting for a third party candidate is a waste? The only wasted votes seem to go for those with an "R" or "D" next to their name. The next election will be once again a choice between bad and worse. I plan to jump ship and go with a new broom. At this point in time, there seems to be little difference between the 2 major parties.

[cenacle]

The problem was not that Dems did not vote against the funding bill, but not ENOUGH of them did. I think the number in the House was about 160, and in the Senate was 29. Those are sizeable percentages who voted against this War funding bill. But, again, not enough to stop it. So obviously some are simply not going to fund it by their vote, some want a bipartisan strategy, and a few, maybe support the War. That's the best I can figure. Unlike Republicans, they are rarely a unified party.

As for third party candidates, I think it would work best if not started like always in time for a presidential election. The major parties exist on federal, state, and local levels, which is why they are so powerful and pervasive. A third party would need to work out a strategy that mapped what to do with all 50 states on all levels, and it would likely take millions of dollars and years to be viable. The cults of personality around people like Ralph Nader and Ross Perot are just that, cults that rise and fall.

I would like to see many parties, frankly, it would help us all. But the work involved, the money and people power and resources, is incredible. I hope it happens, and I think I would support it, though I don't know if I'd join.

[dendro]

The invasion of Iran is not yet off the table. AIPAC is still shilling hard for it, as are Cheney and his group. They still have time before they are out, and anything can happen. Bush could declare a national emergency, and commandeer the entire government and Police forces. He could stay in office indefinitely.

The dems control little. The executive rules. As for a pullout, huh?  :?

The surge has  become huge. No one is coming home. The war is escalating, as are the body counts. Some estimates put the surge at around 50,000 now, including all forces, military and contractor. But the situation continues to deteriorate, and as there are no criteria for a pullout, why should Bush withdraw any troops? It would not take much to trigger an invasion of Iran and Syria. And if they do bomb Iran's nuke sites, there will be a radwaste holocaust that will affect the entire globe. Hold tight to that teddy, cen...

[cenacle]

Of course the invasion of Iran isn't off the table. But the political shift in the landscape is palpable. The Occupation was once seen as a high idealistic goal, bring American-style representative democracy to the Middle East. Even if they didn't ask for it. Which they didn't. But to some, at one time, it sounded good.

Now it's a bloody bad mess and the country has turned against Bush in a big way. He can't get any kind of legislation through. He's totally stalled, on immigration, Social Security "reform," etc. Mired in scandal such as the Attorney General situation, World Bank, and so on...

At this point, the Occupation is about two issues. 1) getting the Iraqi parliament to sign away their oil, per the "sharing" agreement they are considering that would give oil companies up to 80 percent of the revenues. 2) The 2008 American elections. Everyone up for re-election then is looking at the Occupation, the polls, and seeing how it will affect him or her. It's simple. They talk about the fall because that's as close as they are willing to cut it. By when the primaries start, everyone wants to declare victory, no matter what that looks like.

Bush/Cheney are in their "last thoes," not running for office again, having lost pretty much everything they stole, though not the Supreme Court, but their fanaticism to change the world in their own twisted images, it's over.

So, aside from the possibility of marshal law, no elections, etc etc, and the tragic truth of how many more will die in this Occupation, this situation is winding down. And as for marshal law, don't look for it. Big business needs its worker bees on all levels, can't have them in camps or running for the hills. As long as we punch our clocks every day, a small number of men make a lot of fucking money. Marshal law? Not good for business.

Sad, sorry, cynical state of affairs, all of this. But, oddly, not hopeless.