Guest chat with Dr. Ralph Metzner - 1/05/08

[kemp]

I just spoke to Dr. Metzner and he has agreed to do a guest chat this coming Saturday!

Where - Spiritplants chat - (link is at the top of forum page)
Or open your irc client and goto - irc.yage.net port: 6667

When - Saturday, January 5th 2008 9am PST (5pm GMT)

Please visit Dr. Metzner's website here -
//http://www.greenearthfound.org/

If you live in or will be near California on these days - Jan 27 to Feb 1, 2008, you might enjoy his Alchemical workshop.
Details here - //http://metzneralchemicaldivination.org/workshops.html

Have your questions ready...
Hope to see you all there!   :wink:

[OBODAOUR]

Woot way 2 go Kemp you deserve an award for all the great work you do getting us guest chatters, and well, just for being you as well! Thanks again!!!

Much Love
ObOdAoUr

[Glandmaster]

I popped a heads up for the good folk at deoxy here  - I thought others may find the time converter link handy.

[kemp]

Thanks guys! Posting the link to this thread at other sites is definitely helpful.

Just to be clear about the chat, it will be moderated. We have had to do this in the past because of the large turn outs. It is nearly impossible to read or keep up with 130+ chatters so, chatting will be somewhat restricted when the guest speaker is taking a question and answering it.
Often, at some point or two during the scheduled time, we open it up to general chat and pretty much anything goes (within reason).

We ask that people who want to ask a question, please have it ready and typed clearly, then private message (PM) a moderator (person with an @ in front of their name). We'll keep a list of folks with questions and someone will notify you when you are up and can ask your question (please be ready, dead air in chat with a guest speaker is like dead air on the radio).

In the past we have allowed people to ask follow up questions (after guest answers the first) however, we always seem to run out of time and very few people get a chance to ask anything. I am thinking we might just skip follow up questions this time... any suggestions?

[cenacle]

Great going, Kemp!!! I think it should be one q a person, if the numbers are large as they have been with Strassman etc, for the reasons you listed...what do others think?

[Cassie]

How exciting! Thanks Kemp.
 
I agree with one question each (altho sometimes a 2-part question is inevitable) and then we can ask a second if there is time once everyone has had a turn.

[Cassie]

The format for the chat with Dr Metzner is different to the previous chat in that the ops will accept questions in advance and exercise discretion as to which questions will take priority. Certainly getting in early will increase your chances of having your question answered.

Pm your questions anytime to Kemp, Glandmaster, Obodaour or Cassie.

[kemp]

The guest chat went extremely well. Have only heard good things about it. I think we did learn a couple of things though that we may be able to use to ensure that future chats go even smoother.

Suggestions are welcome and will be considered.

A log of the chat will be posted soon here and at Deoxy.org

Thanks to everyone who participated, and special thanks to those who helped coordinate and moderate- Glandmaster, Senz, Cassie, Liquis, Obodaour, and especially our semi-silent but always available host Oghran :-)
It wouldn't have been possible without all your help.

Thanks also to Dr. Metzner for being a wonderful gentleman and intriguing guest. One of the more memorable chats, indeed.

[Avery L. Breath]

Can't wait to see the transcript.

A~

[Azarius]

ahhhhhhh how could i have missed this :@

yea transcript would b gd

[OBODAOUR]

Here's a transcript of the chat...



Jan 06 02:51:08 *    Ralph (http://www.greenearthfound.org/ralph_metzner.html
Jan 06 02:52:52 <kemp>    His Green Earth Foundation (http://www.greenearthfound.org) seeks to pass on the vital information for a harmonious existence and his most recent project is a series of fascinating workshops, the Alchemical Divination Training Program: www.metzneralchemicaldivination.org
Jan 06 02:53:02 <kemp>    If you would like to ask a question please PM (private message) it to an OP (someone with a @ in front of their name like mine). We will add it to the queue and when it is your turn you will be able to ask it yourself so be ready to do this when prompted.
Jan 06 02:53:16 <kemp>    If you need any help with this just ask an OP
Jan 06 02:53:29 <kemp>    Todays chat will be logged and arcived at http://deoxy.org/wiki/Chat_Logs/Ralph_Metzner and the Spiritplant forums.
Jan 06 02:53:43 <kemp>    Dr Metzner before we open up to our first question perhaps you could bring us up to speed with your latest projects?
Jan 06 02:55:12 <Ralph>    Okay, alchemical divination refers to methods of accessing sources of knowledge and insight within oneself.I teach this in a series of 5-day workshops, one coming up in late January,
Jan 06 02:55:29 <Ralph>    in which you learn these methods for oneself, and how to guide others.
Jan 06 02:55:55 <kemp>    when you are done with an answer, please type "end" so we will know to move on
Jan 06 02:56:28 <Ralph>    Okay, end
Jan 06 02:56:31 <kemp>    are you all set for the next persons question?
Jan 06 02:56:35 <kemp>    excellent
Jan 06 02:56:37 <Ralph>    yes
Jan 06 02:57:01 <kemp>    whos up next?
Jan 06 02:57:18 <liquis>    lucious
Jan 06 02:57:23 <kemp>    we will have this going smooth in no time
Jan 06 02:57:41 <kemp>    if not lucious, we can come back to him
Jan 06 02:58:19 <kemp>    lucious your question?
Jan 06 02:58:38 <liquis>    ok we'll move on to SPiros until Lucious gets back
Jan 06 02:58:50 <Spiros>    ok
Jan 06 02:58:52 <Spiros>    Dr Metzner, could you say some spontaneous thought of yours about psychedelics and art in regard to young artists? I am 24 years old and an artist, and I do feel like what Terence McKenna called 201can antenna201d for the larger picture, but most my friends and family and the modern world as a whole tend to discourage me in my endeavors. Being very stubborn I go my own way anyway, but what could you say of how to deal with following one
Jan 06 03:00:13 <Ralph>    Spiros, I'm not sure of what your question is, but the connection between
Jan 06 03:00:53 <Ralph>    psychedelics and art is deep. I'm good friends with Alex and Alysson Grey, and
Jan 06 03:01:05 <Spiros>    my question is, what would you say of following one's heart in a circumstance where it is largely discouraged?
Jan 06 03:01:45 <Ralph>    their amazing Sacred Mirrors chapel in New York; as well as several other artists; ab
Jan 06 03:02:05 <Ralph>    absolutely follow your heart. Try to find like-minded souls, or at least one
Jan 06 03:02:35 <Ralph>    other artist and work collaboratively. What kind of art do yo do? Painting?
Jan 06 03:03:11 <Ralph>    A wonderful film about music and psychedelics has been made, called ENTHEOGENESIS, it combines
Jan 06 03:03:29 <Ralph>    psychedelic visuals with a rave-type sound track and amazing footage
Jan 06 03:04:01 <Ralph>    of dancers from all over the world.
Jan 06 03:04:54 <kemp>    ok, thanks very much
Jan 06 03:05:01 <kemp>    shall we move on then?
Jan 06 03:05:15 <Ralph>    you can find the film at:www.entheogen.tv.com end
Jan 06 03:05:42 <kemp>    great! thank you Dr. Metzner
Jan 06 03:05:54 <kemp>    Sappho you are up
Jan 06 03:06:25 <kemp>    maybe that url is www.entheogen.tv ?
Jan 06 03:06:51 <kemp>    there we go, that works  
Jan 06 03:06:53 <Ralph>    Yes, that's probably right. end
Jan 06 03:07:10 <kemp>    ok, your question Sappho?
Jan 06 03:07:42 <kemp>    ok, maybe we can come back to her
Jan 06 03:08:08 <Sappho>    we know the film and his quote 'you can't by any stratch cal this a civilisation'. so will 2012 bring any evolution in global gaian mind awareness? will this external circumstances cosmic changes really cause any use for our awareness?
Jan 06 03:08:40 <Sappho>    sorry Sir Metzner, i am adresing you in 3rd person , i thought moderators will take care editing
Jan 06 03:09:18 <Sappho>    well, i have some linguistics related questions later, but i'd want to know if you can tell us your view of newr future (hopes?)
Jan 06 03:09:42 <Ralph>    I don't have an English knighthood, so you don'r need to call me "Sir anything".
Jan 06 03:09:51 <Ralph>    Actually, Ralph will do just fine.
Jan 06 03:10:16 <Ralph>    About 2012, like everyone else, I'm intrigued by all the prophecies relating
Jan 06 03:10:22 <Sappho>    well, I see you as a Sir..since I am brittish-cultivated 8colonized) partly...(a slav in middle europe)
Jan 06 03:10:56 <Sappho>    well then, let's see what happens..i think the social systems will improve for sure
Jan 06 03:10:59 <Ralph>    to 2012, but don't really have any privileged access information. Astronomically,
Jan 06 03:11:37 <Ralph>    it's an alignment of the winter solstice sunrise with the center of the galaxy.
Jan 06 03:11:58 <Ralph>    A cosmic event to be sure, but what it means for individuals is anyone's guess.
Jan 06 03:12:17 <Ralph>    i think the biggest message that I take from it is a reinforcement
Jan 06 03:12:57 <Ralph>    of the basic guidance to try to be as conscious as possible, follow your
Jan 06 03:13:24 <Ralph>    inner guidance and wisdom and stay in touch with your loved ones, friends and
Jan 06 03:13:31 <Ralph>    neighbors. end
Jan 06 03:13:44 <kemp>    great! next question
Jan 06 03:13:48 <Goa_Tee>    hi Ralph. My question is this : what do you understand by the word 'God'?
Jan 06 03:15:35 <Ralph>    I like what Noam  Chomsky always says when someone asks him whether he believes in God. he says I can;t possibly answer that question because I don't have any idea what your "god' concept is.
Jan 06 03:16:44 <Goa_Tee>    i suppose, then, i should ask : what is your 'god' concept?
Jan 06 03:17:40 <Ralph>    For myself, I'm a polytheist, and experience the universe as filled with countless spirit beings, gods and humans and others inhabiting  the forms of infinite diversity and variety .
Jan 06 03:18:11 <Ralph>    each human being is the created form of a divine being. end
Jan 06 03:18:33 <kemp>    ok, next question
Jan 06 03:18:48 <tucuna>    Hi Ralph - Are you familiar with the amazonian shamanic dietary requirement of abstaining from sexual activities (for three days or more) after drinking ayahuasca - and if so (given that the amazonian culture itself offers no help on that route, as far as I am aware), how do you think that one (well, two) could/should go about, *if at all*, performing some tantric style sexual experimentation during (or perhaps immediately after) an aya
Jan 06 03:18:48 <tucuna>    huasca session/ceremony?
Jan 06 03:21:04 <Ralph>    I think abstaining from most foods and sexual activity around the time of a
Jan 06 03:21:24 <Ralph>    psychedelic or entheogenic ceremony focussed on healing is basically a
Jan 06 03:21:42 <Ralph>    good practice. And when partaking a sacrament in a particular culture, you
Jan 06 03:22:21 <Ralph>    follow their guidelines. There are couples who have experimented with combining psychedelics with
Jan 06 03:23:05 <Ralph>    tantric sexual practices. But I don't imagine that ayahuasca is particularly suited for that, since it has that purging factor -
Jan 06 03:23:45 <Ralph>    throwing up on your lover would be kind of distracting. Plus, it's not a group pratice. end
Jan 06 03:24:02 <DMT_Nexus>    Dr Metzner, we are interested in your opinion on a study of "Communications between entheogenic users": Basically two subjects are given a mild to medium sized dose of DMT. Each of these subjects is given a word beforehand, that only they know.
Jan 06 03:24:04 <kemp>    many thanks Ralph, I imagine you might be tired of typing soon
Jan 06 03:24:08 <DMT_Nexus>    Before dosing, the subjects must meditate, concentrate, and focus on the word. Then they are simultaneously given the dosage, and lay down so that their minds are close together.
Jan 06 03:24:16 <DMT_Nexus>    The entheogenic users then both attempt to communicate that word on to the other during the trip. When they "wake up", see if either word was passed successfully.
Jan 06 03:24:37 <DMT_Nexus>    (sorry for the fast post)
Jan 06 03:24:41 <kemp>    we can take a break sometime, whenever is good for you, Ralph
Jan 06 03:24:50 <kemp>    no problem DMT_Nexus
Jan 06 03:25:48 <Ralph>    I'm okay, though the switch from one question to another is a bit startling - from God to sex to telepathy. oh well.
Jan 06 03:25:55 <kemp>    haha
Jan 06 03:26:04 <kemp>    sorry... we have all types here
Jan 06 03:26:12 <kemp>    all good tho
Jan 06 03:26:29 <Ralph>    I'm not familiar with the particular DMT experiment you refer to, but sure one can do it.
Jan 06 03:26:54 <Ralph>    You could also do the same or similar thought transfer experiment without DMT.
Jan 06 03:27:17 <Ralph>    Most traditional parapsychology experiments fail after a while because they
Jan 06 03:28:12 <Ralph>    use words or symbols that don't mean anything personally. Telepathy occurs in psychedelic states among people who are bonded with one another and involved and excited about a shared experience.
Jan 06 03:28:28 <Ralph>    similarly to musicians improvising with one another - often report being
Jan 06 03:28:39 <Ralph>    completely attuned with what they are each getting. end
Jan 06 03:28:54 <kemp>    ok, Dimethyl I think you are next
Jan 06 03:29:17 <dimethyl>    Ralph, are you familiar with the 'psychic/artist' Ingo Swann, or any of his works/writings? At the International Remote Viewing Association (IRVA) Conference,
Jan 06 03:29:18 <dimethyl>    he had a speech about how 'scientists' fail to measure or understand 'psychic' and 'spiritual' processes. In his speech he mentioned how Scientists theorize that ~90-99% of the universe
Jan 06 03:29:18 <dimethyl>    is made up of dark matter/energy (and the discovery of dark matter interpenetrating dark energy), and how the "scientific method" relies entirely on the measurement of physical matter. So do you think it is possible that the reason scientists fail to properly study these
Jan 06 03:29:18 <dimethyl>    matters, is largely because they occur in non-matter (and its interactions with matter). Do you have any comments on the future of science, possibly in a time where it integrates with the possibility
Jan 06 03:29:20 <dimethyl>    to study such non-matter, or this theory/idea in general? (thanks, end)
Jan 06 03:31:27 <Ralph>    I'm somewhat familiar with Ingo Swann's work. He was the main originator of the remote viewing protocol developed at the Stanford Research Institute by Russell Targ and hal Puthoff, where remote viewers were trained in psychic espionage.
Jan 06 03:31:58 <Ralph>    His E-book PENETRATION, is an autobiographical account of his experiences.
Jan 06 03:33:53 <Ralph>    His findings about the Moon and the Moon shots are startling. About science being too exclusively focussed on the material time-space dimension, i agree completely. I believe this is worldview transition we're going through now, so as to arrive at a worldview that integrates science with the non-material dimensions of life, including Spirit.
Jan 06 03:34:10 <kemp>    excellent! Robin, you are up
Jan 06 03:34:56 <kemp>    Robin or Justinl
Jan 06 03:35:09 <justinl>    me?
Jan 06 03:35:17 <justinl>    ok
Jan 06 03:35:17 <kemp>    sure
Jan 06 03:35:22 <justinl>    the first part of my question is this:
Jan 06 03:35:30 <justinl>    Dr. Metzner, I was watching a video on Carl Jung recently and from what I can gather, he thought a return to alchemy would be the salvation of western civilization.  Could you comment on this? Is this what you are trying to accomplish?
Jan 06 03:36:40 <justinl>    the second part is, if this is so, why do you think psychedelics are the right path, i know from reading "Journey of Awakening" by Ram Dass, he said he eventually had to get over the hangup of the expectation/memory of his psychedelic experiences before he could progress further.
Jan 06 03:36:45 <justinl>    (and sorry if that question is too hostile)
Jan 06 03:37:42 <Ralph>    I don't know about the salvation of western civilization, but i agree with Jung that alchemy represents a hidden tradition of great beauty and meaning in Western civilization. Alchemy or the Hermetic Tradition, is a descendant of shamanism, integrated with Spirituality and science.
Jan 06 03:40:16 <Ralph>    But it was suppressed by the Church in the Middle Ages, and by material science in the Modern Age. Jung rescued it from this double suppression, pointing out that it was a symbolic language of the psyche, that helps to connect the material with the higher dimensions. Hofmann's discovery of LSD provided an additional link in the broken connection, by finding a materia substance that one ingests, and that can attune consciousness more
Jan 06 03:40:47 <Ralph>    I've written about this in a short book that is coming out shortly, You'll see it on our website.
Jan 06 03:40:56 <justinl>    thanks
Jan 06 03:41:00 <kemp>    Inquirer I think you are next
Jan 06 03:41:09 <kemp>    thanks justinl
Jan 06 03:41:17 <Inquirer>    Hello Dr. Metzner, I'd like to know what you think of the 'War on Drugs' here in the states, specifically its effects on recreational and spiritual psychedelic usage.
Jan 06 03:44:00 <kemp>    need a break yet Ralph?
Jan 06 03:44:39 <kemp>    if you could Ralph, click on the tab with my name on it... the private message tab
Jan 06 03:45:00 <kemp>    lhow about we take a 5 mintue break and come back?
Jan 06 03:45:23 <Ralph>    I think it helps if you guys just give me one question at a time to respond to. So the War on Drugs is an unmitigated disaster, not only for users of psychedelics, but for our whole society. It's a racially motivated policy of suppression of dissenting voices in a culture, and the totally ineffective and inapproporiate turning a public health problem (addiction) into a law-enforcement issue. The united States has just about the most
Jan 06 03:46:14 <Inquirer>    thank you :-)
Jan 06 03:46:36 <kemp>    I think the end may have gotten cut off... maybe hit entter more often Ralph
Jan 06 03:46:52 <kemp>    sorry about that
Jan 06 03:46:53 <Glandmaster>    Ralph>    I think it helps if you guys just give me one question at a time to respond to. So the War on Drugs is an unmitigated disaster, not only for users of psychedelics, but for our whole society. It's a racially motivated policy of suppression of dissenting voices in a culture, and the totally ineffective and inapproporiate turning a public health problem (addiction) into a law-enforcement...
Jan 06 03:46:54 <Glandmaster>    ...issue. The united States has just about the most
Jan 06 03:46:55 <Glandmaster>    <Ralph>    end
Jan 06 03:47:06 <kemp>    thank you GM
Jan 06 03:47:14 <liquis>    well let's see, are we taking a rbeak?
Jan 06 03:47:17 <liquis>    *break
Jan 06 03:47:32 <kemp>    we can, it sup to Ralph
Jan 06 03:47:42 <kemp>    or we can continue
Jan 06 03:48:12 <kemp>    who do we have up next?
Jan 06 03:48:19 <liquis>    ya, mirc cuts text off at a certain amount... 300 characters maybe?
Jan 06 03:48:40 <kemp>    yeah, one of the drawbacks of chat
Jan 06 03:48:44 <liquis>    psilo is up next
Jan 06 03:49:04 <kemp>    ok, psilo go ahead
Jan 06 03:49:19 <psilo>    okay, sorry if this sounds like a multipart question
Jan 06 03:49:24 <psilo>    please forgive me if this is an all too personal question, lord knows I don't want you to have to incriminate yourself!  But in light of a statement of Alan Watts regarding psychedelics,
Jan 06 03:49:30 <psilo>    where he says "When you get the message, hang up the phone," I was wondering if you still find personal benefit to be gained in the psychedelic experience?
Jan 06 03:49:38 <psilo>    basically, is the psychedlic trip something worthwhile in repeating, and can something new be gained from each peak experience?
Jan 06 03:49:43 <psilo>    or does there come a point when it just becomes a reminder of what one has already learned?
Jan 06 03:51:22 <Ralph>    i think of the psychedelics as non-specific psychic amplifiers. The experience you have is a function of "set and setting", as Tim Leary used to say; or of intention, as i would say now.
Jan 06 03:52:31 <Ralph>    And that's true of any state of consciousness, including this one -- wht's happening here is a function of each of our intentions and interests, and then there's the setting (the IRC).
Jan 06 03:53:02 <Ralph>    The Alan Watts remark sounds clever, and is valid for certain kinds of communications.
Jan 06 03:53:34 <Ralph>    However, when you're in touch with "God", say, or you're deceased grandparents, or
Jan 06 03:54:02 <Ralph>    your lover, or a wise person you've just met, why would you hang up the phone?
Jan 06 03:54:47 <Ralph>    Psychedelics are ways that the message can be heard more clearly perhaps. But it still depends on the question you're asking, which is the intention. Hope that makes sense. End
Jan 06 03:55:13 <kemp>    ok, that was a great answer
Jan 06 03:55:23 <eso>    What do you suggest are the best ways to go about spreading knowledge of entheogens and alchemy amidst illegality in the US and most everywhere else?
Jan 06 03:55:30 <eso>    How can we overcome the fact that we need to teach and share the information on the growth and spiritual use of entheogenic plants and alchemy yet the very real possibility of getting one's freedom taken unjustly makes it very hard not to turn good knowledge into secretive hermit-hobbies??
Jan 06 03:55:39 <eso>    There are many like myself who feel they know important things that others need to wake up and become aware of, but also having to live safely with a family, in a town or city, in a state etc where the very info that desperately needs to be shared is the same information that law enforcent could come destroy a family's life with.
Jan 06 03:57:24 <Ralph>    Well, what's really the point of sharing information with those who do not ask for that information, or who have other agendas. You have to use discretion and discernment.
Jan 06 03:58:17 <Ralph>    the use of psychedelics has always been a secret tradition, because it's so easily misunderstood, even by well-meaning people.
Jan 06 03:59:00 <Ralph>    It was the same in the Middle Ages as now: growing certain plants in your garden could get you hauled before the Inquisition.
Jan 06 04:01:40 <Ralph>    The information about plants and substances that assist the mind is out there, thanks to the writings of Hofmann, and Shulgin, and many others, myself included, and thanks to the dedicated work of growers and makers, the tool are available. In my work, what I can contribute is the divination methods with which to work in varying states of consciousness, and find the answers that are meaningful to yourself and your family and communit
Jan 06 04:02:00 <kemp>    I think solitude is up now
Jan 06 04:02:42 <senz>    sn0cks would be next in line
Jan 06 04:02:53 <kemp>    ok, sn0cks you can go aheasd
Jan 06 04:03:01 <sn0cks>    ok, hello dr. metzner, I was wondering that from your vantage
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>      point, where do you see psychedelics going in terms of the
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>                    political and social barriers that surround their use? I was
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>                    thinking on this in light of russia's government recently
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>                    re-opening psychedelic research.  Do you see the doors closing
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>                    or opening, as of now, in that sphere, and for cognitive
Jan 06 04:03:06 <sn0cks>                    freedom in general ?
Jan 06 04:03:29 <sn0cks>    sorry about the readability
Jan 06 04:03:59 <liquis>    hm i can clean that up quick
Jan 06 04:04:36 <liquis>    point, where do you see psychedelics going in terms of the political and social barriers that surround their use? I was thinking on this in light of russia's government recently re-opening psychedelic research.  Do you see the doors closing or opening, as of now, in that sphere, and for cognitive freedom in general ?
Jan 06 04:04:44 <liquis>    (same question cleaned up)
Jan 06 04:06:36 <Ralph>    I know my friend Stan Grof has just returned from Russia, where he's giving talks to 800 people interested in transpersonal psychology and applications of psychedelics and breathwork. There are many more scientific research projects under way than there were 5 years ago. The Heffter Organization, and MAPS are two organization that sponsor and support such work. Also, there's a World Psychedelic Forumk, an international conference, Ma
Jan 06 04:07:51 <Ralph>    At the same time -- doors are closing too, in the larger society, fascism suppression of information and dissidence is increasing in American society particularly. A good time to stay alert. End.
Jan 06 04:08:00 <sn0cks>    thank you
Jan 06 04:08:19 <liquis>    we have one or two more questions
Jan 06 04:08:24 <kemp>    yep
Jan 06 04:08:30 <loom>    hello ralph =)
Jan 06 04:08:39 <loom>    i want to ask you about my favorite topic: do you think we, as humans, do have "free will"? my actual question on this background is: is there any possibility for a "true" "random" event to happen, is something like that even possible? maybe you see my direction.. what do you think or feel?
Jan 06 04:10:48 <Ralph>    Is Dick Cheney the nickname of one of the participants? Or do you mean the Vice-President. If the latter that's the best news i've heard in months. end
Jan 06 04:11:35 <kemp>    heh, I doubt he's the real deal
Jan 06 04:11:41 <Ralph>    Regarding "free will" and "randomness", i don't spend much time on highly abstract issues like that
Jan 06 04:11:56 <loom>    allright
Jan 06 04:12:34 <kemp>    ok thanks
Jan 06 04:12:42 <kemp>    shall we do one more question Ralph?
Jan 06 04:13:39 <Ralph>    I do know this: when you expand awareness, take a larger context into account, you increase your choices. For example, when you become aware that you're afraid or someone, or angry at someone, and you remember who you are, then you can make different choices, freely. I'd call that Free will. end
Jan 06 04:14:32 <Ralph>    Okay, let's have one more question. end
Jan 06 04:14:34 <kemp>    thanks very much Ralph, do you want one more quesiton or have you had enough for one day?
Jan 06 04:14:39 <kemp>    okay!
Jan 06 04:14:43 <kemp>    eupho, your up
Jan 06 04:14:54 <eupho>    Hello Ralph, sorry to bug you at the end of the forum... I woke up late Anyway,
Jan 06 04:14:54 <eupho>    In light of the Swiss' reclassification of lsd as an experimental theraputic agent after more than three decades of prohibition, do you believe the breadth of fear generated by the analogue act will dissuade other foreign scientific commumities from taking the Swiss cue to reassert the need to use semi/banned psychopharmacopia such as those presented by Alexander Shulgin in their studies? Do you see things actually moving up the
Jan 06 04:15:33 <liquis>    Do you see things actually moving up the____cutoff
Jan 06 04:15:47 <eupho>    the hill that prohibition presents?
Jan 06 04:16:27 <Ralph>    Well, we did actually talk about this earlier. But generally, yes, there are more scientific studies of psychedelics now than at any time since the mid-sixties, more in Europe than in the US, but here too.
Jan 06 04:17:37 <eupho>    That is comforting, coming from an academic such as yourself. Sorry to be redundant.
Jan 06 04:17:40 <Ralph>    The Drug war and prohibition is a dark cloud that hangs over our whole society, infecting all science and human welfare with a toxic cloud of paranoia and hatred. It should be ended. period. end
Jan 06 04:17:57 <ObOdAoUr>    Thank you very much Ralph for joining us today and for all the work you do!
Jan 06 04:17:57 <kemp>    Dr. Metzner, thank you very much for stopping in today.
Jan 06 04:17:57 <kemp>    We really do appreciate your time!
Jan 06 04:18:14 <kemp>    great answers to some great questions
Jan 06 04:18:21 <senz>    thank you very much and have a good 2008!
Jan 06 04:18:26 <Ralph>    You're totally welcome, and thanks for the invitation. End
Jan 06 04:18:33 <kemp>    ok, we'll open it up  now
Jan 06 04:18:42 *    Ralph has quit (Quit: sometimes you just have to know when to say when...)