Cannabis-pyschosis link - it's in the genes

[visionarybear]

hey guys, jus a lil tidbit i saw 2day, intrested me as most ppl seem to know someone who got"fucked up" on weed, maybe a step towards better understanding amongst users..

Cannabis-pyschosis link - it's in the genes

29 April 2005

A gene linking teenage cannabis use with psychotic illnesses has been identified in an international study based on data from the University of Otago's Multidisciplinary Health & Development Study.

"What we found is those people with a particular version of this gene have almost 11 times the chance of having a diagnosis of psychosis if they used cannabis during adolescence. The strength of this association is on par with that seen for a-pack-a-day cigarette smoker and the likelihood of ending up with lung cancer," Multidisciplinary Health & Development Study director Associate Professor Richie Poulton says.

The paper comes from an international research team from the University of Otago, the Institute of Psychiatry at King's College London and the University of Wisconsin and was led by Professors Avshalom Caspi and Terrie Moffitt.

The study, which will be published in the international journal Biological Psychiatry next month, focused on the COMT gene, which was chosen because it is known to play a part in the production of dopamine, a brain-signaling chemical that is abnormal in schizophrenia, Assoc Prof Poulton says.

"The findings reinforce a growing consensus that nature and nurture are not mutually exclusive forces but combine to affect behaviour and health," he says.

"This explains why cannabis use has a devastating affect on some users but leaves most unharmed. We have suspected genetic factors are responsible for the difference but until now no gene has been identified."

The Dunedin Multidisciplinary Health & Development Study has tracked approximately 1000 men and women since they were born in Dunedin in 1972 and 1973, making it one of the longest and most detailed cohort studies in the world. Each participant was interviewed at 13, 15 and 18 years about cannabis use and tested to determine which type of COMT gene they had inherited and followed up at age 26 for signs of mental illness.


//http://www.otago.ac.nz/news/news/2005/29-04-05_press_release.html

[Stonehenge]

Sounds like more anti pot propaganda. The bushies will be using this as "proof" that pot is harmfull. What about the hundreds of people who die every year from asprin? You never hear about them but if pot killed one person it would be all over the front page.

[Aneurysm]

You make a good point Stonehenge.  In light of studies showing the medicinal value of cannabis, the growing popularity of hemp fiber and seeds, and stronger pushes on the legalization front (think Alaska's unprecedented ads on TV, Washington's I-75, etc.) some sort of anti-pot prop in reaction to this would be expected.

However there is also the possibility that the study is legitimate.  Afterall, the brain is still undergoing formative changes during the teenage years, so there would be a greater chance of this psychosis developing if something like cannabis interrupted the process.

Then again, humans have been intervening in this process for thousands of years in the form of certain tribal ritual initiations into adulthood.  And Terrence McKenna has said that one of the functions of the shaman was to keep people from using these kinds of substances from going crazy.  So perhaps there are some archaic pieces of the puzzle that we are missing.

A number of possibilities.  Something to ponder.

--Aneurysm

[visionarybear]

I do not agree totally on your suspection of it being illegit,  to me it wasnt saying pot was dangerous, but some people are more vulnerable to long term developemental damage than others, genetic basis.

I see it as simialr logic to not taking hallucinagen if you have a familial disposition to schiztophrenia (sp?), makes sense not to tempt a sleeping beast, no?

also where is it stated than children routinely used cannibis in old cultures? in soth american where they chew coca leaves, the children dont partake and when asked if they wont they they say, no not now, but i will when im older...

believing blindly is dangerous, but being closed to new ideas of science is just as dangerous, the results will show what was found, the conclusions drawn seem the more logical place for the bias of opinion and phrasing needs to be scruitenised(sp?)..

The otherday, a lecture freely stated to the students that the jury was stil out on whether the definite effect on the brain via pot use, is of any huge significane or just  a measurable effect that will not effect the greater cognition ability greatly.

everything has an effect on our rain, its jus learning to interpret what they mean that is the hard part...

my 2cents,
vb~

[senorsalvia]

I can somewhat understand the tracking of youths through adolescense, but at the same time, it is not much of a cognitive jump for me to suspect an alterior motive to the studies...  Anyone who has studied very many reports about adolescent cognition will note that the brain is still developing until the very late teens, or early twenties...  I gotta ask,,,  what's the scientific justification to interview teenboppers, then go after them again in their twenties.??....  Sounds like they are just attempting to correlate data according to a predisposed predjudiced position.....   senorsal

[visionarybear]

i agree senor that there may be a motive behinde the study, but what ever nfo is found, supporting the 'bad for you' or  not 'bad' for you, will be presented in the findings, ya always gotta have a hypothesis to do test...
but the results speak for themselves..
i commend them on actually quantifieng evidence rather than having all the emphasis on here say of empirical evidence, give it a few months to years and ill prolly be working with the reasearches on the otago team, and i hold the hope that only good scientific practice would be occuring,  having the opportunity in 4th year to take an entire paper on cannabis pharmacology also, so im sure its not going to be just consisting of false dogmas..
the best way to win the war is to recruit the troops of the enemy, make comrads of them. jus gotta do some convincing and proving them wrong...

[Avery L. Breath]

I thought it just made you grow breasts.

http://www.teengrowth.com/index.cfm?act ... dvice=3050

..... Certainly don't believe everything you read............... on drugs

http://www.marijuanaaddiction.info/effe ... ijuana.htm

[visionarybear]

haha avery, that was definitely a little chuckle
thanks

[Stonehenge]

The facts in the study may be basicly correct but that does not rule out it being propaganda. Propaganda does not mean lies, although much of it may contain lies. The art of propaganda is in how you present your material. Asprin is presented as a safe drug with many benefits, however, as I pointed out, it kills hundreds of people every year. If you look at the benefits and relative safety, it's a good drug. Same thing with pot. It has lots of benefits and never killed anyone directly. Jackasses like bush will point to a study like this and say it's proof of how harmful pot is. Propaganda lies in demonising that which you are against and whitewashing that which you are in favor of. The study itself may be fairly neutral but it will be used as propaganda by the government.

[Green2Herman]

Drugs shouldnt be used during the adolescence. They do affect how the brain mature in ways that are not present after adolescence. The link between psycosis and problems in the dopamin system are strong.

Also it have been showed time after time that dopamin system are sensitive in children and easily can be affected in ways that atleast partly seem to be for life. Watching a lot of TV (especially shows that change a lot for example with a lot of commersial) as a child are for example a risk factor for the type of change in the dopamin system that we can see in ADHD.

But I would like to point out that I think alcohol drinking during adolescence are much bigger risk factor although  maybe not for psycosis.

[JRL]

We all know the shit makes you crazy.

Maybe these people are keeping their latent psychoses at bay by self medicating with Ma's wonder drug.

[CJ]

Donno if it works that way.I`d personally like to believe that cannibis,(not necc THC by itself),is totally beniegn The interesting,and neat thing, in my book,is that cannabis is a bit more of a coctail,than jus the one chemical. But people do things to give themselves something they either lack,(many,many reasons, and chicken or egg arguements)or perhaps primarilarlybecause of the meds they are taking, .  People do self medicate,whether w/ cannabis,or some other substance that seems to 'suit them'. And often,i have heard of anti depressants taking away the 'magic'.

     One thing noted about Schizophrenics is that many smoke ciggaretes alot. Apparently, Nicotine helps them focus.  recent discoveries seem to reflect that true schiziphrenia is more related to the level of glutamate in various areas of the brain,rather than what is primarly happening w/ the dopamine or serotonom activity.Thus nicotine ,indirectly at least stimulate recepters of the NMDA clas.

     What 'drugs' are noted to affect NMDA recepters of different types adversly? the dissociatives PCP,DXM and Ketamine seem to figure. Yes, abuse of amphetamines can cause symptoms,( and mabe permanent damage), and classic pschedelalics do affect temporarily also,and may contribute to dopamine depletion,if overdone.  But ultimately,it may be the effect on the various NMDA receptors indirectly by the  levels of dopamine(too little glutamate reinforcing the dopamine) in the Frontal cortex,and the basal ganglia.(there too little glutamate simulating too much dopamine). so the effects of cannabis,different again, may haveto be analysed by other facters than 'it makes you crazy' or 'it makes you sane'' . That is, the effects may be more psychological. And ironically,ciggies for some ppl. may positivly help.

edit-sp.

[Green2Herman]

A lot of bipolar use CNS stimulating drugs during mania but not have much lust for them during the time they are "in level".

[DrYRHead]

Yes, I've seen some bipolars that like to get hyped up on coke or meth during the mania phase. It can make them asct pretty stupid at times too.