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Ok, last night (Sunday) I decided I had waited long enough, lol.

I had two measure (about the same as a pub measure 1/4 gill) both kept in my mouth for approx 10 mins each (the reason for two was that I came to the conclusion that having one measure in my mouth for longer would have diluted the tincture too much with the saliva that was building)

I do admit that I felt something happen but it was a vague feeling, I now think that as TooStonedToType suggested I had used too much alcohol and therefore the tincture was too diluted. If I was to try again (and I have sill to come to a desision over this) I would use approx half (maybe a llitle more, say 150 mls) of the alcohol and I have no doubt that the experience would be stronger.

I can see where you are both going with this (I think), correct me if I'm wrong.

I have a feeling that you are both right and that you are just pulling from opposite ends of the same rope. One for the effects of SD and one for the effects of experience based change.... what about this... we already do know that experience alone can induce a multitude of of psychological based problems, extreme fear can induce catatonia and other extreme reactions to emotional states can cause effects such as schizophrenia.

However in my case I would not have been exposed to such a traumatic experience without the use of the SD.

So here I am left with the opinion that although I feel that the SD chemical reaction itself may not have been resposible for the change/broadening of neural pathway i.e salvorine A itself didn't force new pathways, I do feel HOWEVER that the unique perspective "tilt" brought about by the SD altered conciousness dealt with the fear it caused in
a manner which could not have been duplicated regardless of the external experience, without it. (I hope I'm being clear about this.)

So in the end both of your points of view, Lollipop Guild for a chemical based reaction and Veracohr for an emotional based reaction, end up becoming the same arguement because without both of the factor involved neither would had the impetus on it's own to cause this situation. Fear on it's own (regardless of how it was brought about) would not have been enough to cause this particular reaction, but neither would the use of SD on it's own caused it if I had experienced a different mindset during my"trip".

Anyway thanks guys for keeping this thread mature, I'm pretty sure that the derisive howls could have been heard for miles around had I proposed my experience anywhere else.

@ Lollipop Guild....I had originally intended to quote your " ....new neural paths being opened; long-dormant coggs greased...", as an illustration of my point, but you know how it is, you plan a post and then ended up typing something completely different to how you intended it

@ Azure Void....what you say is similar to Lollipop Guild's quote (see above), and after such intense brain activity I must accept that as a possibility in the absense of contrary evidence. As far as using x20 again though, I have absolutely no intention of using such a high concentration at least for the simple reason that I did not enjoy such a shockingly intense reaction. I have since made a tincture with the remaining extract at a markedly lower concentration in order to ease in to the experience. As stated my period of seizures was very brief... 3 in the space of a 2 week period imediately following the incident about 6 years ago with nothing since (thankfully) and I probably would not have tried SD because of that reason had I known of it's potency, maybe in this particulaer case ignorance, trully, was bliss. As for me being in tune with my mental processes I must agree with you there and I put that down to the incident. I have become more introspective and self examining, since then, as a result of my trying to remember what was lost. I am very conscious as to "how" I think and the processes behind it.

@Veracohr.... I have to admit that what you say does make sense to me, that rather it was the shocking experience itself that was the actual cause of the change of perspective, with the SD being the catalyst for the experience. I know that in a lot of cases people who have suffered brain trauma liken the sensation to being in a rut, similar to a needle being stuck on a scratched record, to continue the analogy I feel that the shock has , although at a more subtle level, "bumped" the needle to allow the record to continue playing. I definately agree with your comment about my awareness just incorporating this new situation in to itself as that was what happened after the initial incident and my "loss".

Well thanks for the comment guys/ettes I'm glad you found my situation interesting enough to post, and if anyone else wishes to comment feel free.

I was reluctant to post this,(I am still not sure that I can totally believe this and felt silly telling you this), however it is now 5 days from my first experiment with SD and as any temporary effects would have worn off by now...well I thought that I would share this rather personal information with you (I hope you don't mind)

If you have read my thread "Jumped in with both feet....Uh-oh!", then you'll know that my first time with SD wasn't exactly positive... in fact I experienced a very bad FEAR along with a definite physical brain reaction...

To put what I'm about to say in some context I feel that I must share with you some backstory... about 6 years ago I and my friend were were coming back from a few drinks after work when we were assaulted by a group of bastard thugs. My friend escaped with minor injuries whilst I was hit over the head with a bottle of Buckfast (Buckfast is a fortified wine chock full of caffeine brewed by monks from the Buckfast Abbey and comes in glass bottles similar to your standard bottle of wine... there have been campaigns to prevent either the brewing of this most potent cheap alcohol because of the effect it has to turn the drinker, usually young thugs, into hyped up maniacs.... or at least to change the packaging to plastic (there have been a number of similar assaults)... the campaigns failed.). The result of my assault was depressed skull fracturing and brain trauma (I had to undergo major surgery after I lost consciousness) along with a brief bout of Grand Mal seizures, also, as often happens with brain trauma, very slight short term memory loss and a general (vague, but noticeable to me) dullness of the senses, as if you were a knife who's blade has been dulled. (I wasn't left handicapped, by ANY means, by the experience, just vaguely "changed")

Well here's the rub, since I took SD (and disliked the effects of smoking it) and got over the rather major physical feelings I got from it, something strange has happened... although I felt that the initial experience was bad, and since getting over it and letting SD leave my system, I have been feeling more "in focus".

I have to admit that now that I can analyze exactly how I feel at the moment in comparison to how I previously felt (although I do not have categorical evidence) I can honestly say that I again feel slightly different (I'll never be able to compare it to how I was before the assault, because I simply don't remember). I feel as if my "internal lens" has been tweaked. I feel more "present", more "with" the moment as opposed to the "observer" that I felt I  was previously.... things have become easier (I'm sorry if this doesn't make much sense to you but to REALLY understand how I feel, we would have to share a common point of reference i.e you too would have to experience my injury to feel how I feel....... which I pray to God you never will).

I feel more VITAL...... don't get me wrong it isn't an earth shatteringly MASSIVE difference, but I do notice it. I am definitely more "HERE"!

Now, I am unwilling to say that "IT'S A MIRACLE!" nor do I wish to say that SD has "changed my life" (although it may "just" have done so:)), but I DO wish to say that I feel it is more than just psychosomatic wishful thing AND that when I discussed this with my mother (yes, I told her all about SD and that I had taken it) she said that she also had noticed a difference............

So there we have it......could the massive shock to my system have done something profound to me? I don't think that I will ever know for sure but I feel that overall SD has produced a positive and totally unexpected situation.

I do not think that SD is "the cure to all ills" and would definately not recommend SD for all, but I have had a strange experience.

Zebedee.

Yeah, I didn't give it to him, despite his asking. I gave it to him after work.. from his report  he enjoyed the effects, it seems he could quite easily handle it when smoked. I've given him all of the information that I could get on it so it's up to him whether he wishes to continue to experiment.

As for the Monday part of my previous post... I don't start work again til wednesday so I have plenty of time to relax..

And as for the amount of alcohol I've chosen to use... I'd MUCH rather have to little than too much.

Seeing as no one thought what I had planned was a dumb way to do it,lol, I went a head and made it yesterday morning, so I gonna have to leave it till either Sunday night or Monday sometime. I'll probably wait til Monday sometime just to make sure the solution is well saturated.

Hurry up Monday.(Jeez, that's the first time I've ever wished the weekend to end and for Monday to come :lol:)

I'm not surprised at the funny looks.. you really shouldn't rub anything belonging to a Glasweigian in ANY nook or cranny  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

I'm heartened that you have spelled/pronounced Scotsman correctly, we usually get "Scotchman" or somesuch, and that isn't very wise to say to our face

I had an Aussie visa for emigration at one point and was considering moving but things didn't work out, no offense, but I'm kinda glad... I love Scotland.

OK, I've decided that smoking x20 is far too powerful and traumatic to my system so I have opted (in the absence of fresh leaves for Quidding) to make a tincture out of my x20 (or rather out of what's left of my x20 after I have given some to a friend.... who btw wants to try it for the first time during our lunchbreak at work tomorrow via a pipe (we can go outside and are surrounded by woods and mountains, the Highlands basically)... yes, I know!!!!... I'm stilll trying to convince him not to and am considering holding off giving it to him until after work, althought I am not his keeper and I lothe external censorship, I feel to do otherwise would be irresponsible on my part)

Back to the tincture ..... I'll have about 0.5 - 0.6 of a gram of x20 salvia left so will use all of this (please post if this is possibly too much!!). I have decided that if I am to make this tincture, given the fact that I cannot get a hold of high proof alcohol, that I would just go for the best and having a penchant for brandy I have chosen  Remy Martin VSOP fine champagne cognac 40 % (already bought and am drinking it at the moment ) (I can get a 43% Gin, but I LOTHE gin so....)

This is how I will do it.. (normally I'd do it now and leave it for 72 hrs (I'd rather take it at the weekend when I do not have work) because of the lower strength alcohol, however as I am seeking some input/advise will leave making it 'til tommorow in order to consider the opinions (if any ) of the forum).... I willl take my SD and leave it in aproximately 200 ml of cognac for about 48hrs then strain my solution (would it matter if I just didn't bother about straining it, the leaf fragments don't bother me? and you can bet I WILL be swallowing this quality of brandy after I have let it soak through my oral membrane for approx 10-20 mins!! :lol:). I have decided not to heat it as I do not want to damage the alcohol in the cognac. (or the salvia of course)

So there we have it... I will let  0.5 - 0.6 g of x20 sit (with occasional shaking) in approx 250 ml (obviously the full 200 ml wouldn't be used all at once and is intended as a 'stash'.... would 200ml dilute the SD too much?) of some good, non heated cognac for 48 hrs and after this will swish and swirl it around my mouth for approx 10-20 mins (and swallow )

So does this sound like a reasonable way to make my tincture?

Am I wrong or do you have a better way/input to add?

All comments (at least until tommorow when I will make it) are most welcome.

Yeah, a tincture sounds like the most acceptable form of useage for myself, although I'll just have to wait and see .

I'm from Glasgow (the REAL Scotland, Edinburgh is just for tourists, honestly, and not very indicative of our culture)

We are refered to as Glasweigians (Glaz-wee-djins), or more intimately as weigies (wee-djees)  :lol:

Quite interesting but I'd have liked to have seen more reaction from Daniel and the author bloke, it all seemed rather rushed, more of an excuse for the presenter to get on TV.

A couple of things I noted, first off, the pharmacologist just struck me as a debunker  working for the big boys, downcrying the safety of SD and preaching the benefit of 'good ole' lab produced stuff, which btw we are almost certain that at least 50% of which most certainly ISN'T safe. Something else.. it seemed that the psychiatrist was unusually open minded about it all.

Another point of note, which I found to be of concern  :shock:, lol, was that Daniel struck me as rather jittery and incoherent (even before and after the experiment). I hope that's not an indication of what prolonged useage of SD is capable of.

Thank for the welcome.

It looks like a good brandy then, it's probably the only spirit that I could hold in my mouth for any period of time.

A bong is a very personal thing I hope that you find another worthy of forming a relationship with, lol.

Yeah, it was the 'baseball bat over the back of the head' thing that put me off smoking, it was just far too intense (mind you, x20 for the first time didn't help matters either I'm sure).

I may look into getting a plant for Quidding at some point, but I think at the moment my most convienent option would be to find a suitable base for a tincture.

I'd like to thank the guild for their words. There's alot of sense there.

I would use the 20x to make a tinture.  Let it sit in 95% Everclear for a day or so.  Should be good.  I wouldn't use red wine or heat.

Alcohol that pure isn't available here in Scotland (not that I'm aware of anyway) that's why I was quite interested in a more freely available base, but thx anyway.

This seems a good question, and I wouldn't mind knowing the consensus of opinion myself.

Seeing you've tried Quidding after you found smoking too powerful (is it just because you dropped your bong,.... bummer , or that it had adverse effects?), how do you find Quidding in comparison?

@ Jupe............... Yep, well you'd think that taking less would be the answer... however unless I had a set of lab scales and a pair of tweezers that could be rather difficult Seriously, when I said that I took a small amount I meant SMALL, maybe 6 or 7 tiny pieces of crushed leaf.

@ Merkaba..........heh, yeah not pleasant at all. however can I say that I wasn't trying to get loaded, after my first try I knew pretty much that it wasn't that kind of herb, I was mainly intrigued to see if that would be the usual type of effect that I could expect plus I had done some reading by then and was interested in the effects that others had reported, plus having practiced lucid dreaming in the past (do you remember the sleep masks that you could purchase that detected REM and activated a small beeper and light to awaken one inside the dream? They was very interesting..) and being interested in "Dreamtime" I was even more intrigued. I have a theory (unsubstantiated opinion) that actual blood type may have a bearing on the effect of herbs/ etc.. on the body's sytem, being ABRh -ve, coupled with the fact that I've NEVER had what would be considered typical reactions to substances, has reenforced this opinion, (or maybe it's just me )

I would now definately not consider SD to be recreational and would be very wary of it in the future should I decide to try it again, however I do feel that smoking is not my prefered method of consumption. I would consider quidding if I had access to a readily available supply of fresh leaves, that is why I was seeking some way in which to dilute my x20  and take sublingually... someone mentioned bringing some to the boil in some red wine and letting it stand for a while and straining.. it this good, bad or unknown?

Anyway thx for the reply guys...

Peace.