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I've also got some Salvia Divinorum cuttings too.

I've now got quite a number of heimia salicifolia sprouts along with the same seeds i had for trade before if anyone is interested.

Sorry I wasn't aware of the past history and/or alias status of Laughing Brown and whatever other names he/she goes by. I was just disturbed to discover censorship existing in an ethnobotanical community consisting of individuals that are generally known to be very freethinking & open-minded. I have been a member of other boards where administrators openly took great liberties as to who could contribute and what they could contribute to the forum in what appeared to me to be a severe abuse of power to the detriment of the whole community. But I agree that if the person-behind-Laughing-Brown's only motivation for being here is spiteful vengeance then he/she probably shouldn't be allowed to infect the spirit of this board but if said person would like to stop playing games I welcome any contribution from him/her either pro or con.

I am in agreement in principle with most of what you say, but I disagree with your very last statement in that I don't believe that there is no room for debate. For example, what if the parent believes their child should be subjected to a extremely powerful psychedelic as a matter of course in order to give them " a clear perception of reality"? Is it their right to give their child powerful mind-expanding drugs? Where's the moral line over which a "right" becomes morally reprehensible? I'd say there's room for debate there.

I agree. Some parents and some people in general don't hold mind altering substances with the same amount of caution & respect that I mistakenly stated as universal. I know some that don't. Parents are the architects of the foundation that children build their lives on. If some parents want to incorporate drugs into that bedrock I can't say it's wrong. It's certainly experimental. Even tribal societies that incorporate the use of psychedelics into their community life don't allow the children to partake of those substances until they have reached a certain age, usually puberty. But whose to say it's wrong to. I would imagine that psychedelic drugs would be the only drugs that could potentially have a positive effect on a child and I would imagine that any parent with enough confidence in psychedelics as to give them to their children would realize the need to guide and direct the child through that experience. One step better would probably be to hire a psychologist as the guide, if that sort of thing were legal. But of course making drugs illegal always erases the possibility of the best possibilities. But who knows, maybe children of the future will all undergo psychedelic experience as a childhood ritual, guided by fully trained child psychologists, and grow up to form the basis of the perfect utopia that humankind has always only imagined.

Why delete Laughing Brown's post? Censoring out ideas and opinions we don't like only serves to weaken and stagnate our own thought processes and ideas of truth and what's right. That is the same mindset held by most politicians who fight vigorously daily to filter out ideas and/or avenues of experience through certain chemicals & plants that they don't feel are right for our society as if they were caretakers and not merely participants in this society along with the rest of us. Thankfully Freeseeker quoted and responded to the post before it was erased thus allowing for progressive propagation of discussion and not just serving to potentiate the confirmation of the all knowing holiness of the initially stated opinions as though written in stone.

Now as to the original issue of this post I believe that we as self responsible adult citizens of this global community have a basic civil human birthright to any pathway of experience through any means available be they drugs, sex, food, work, bungee jumping, driving a car or simply being a close-minded idiot, etc. Each and every possible human experience should be legal and available to everyone as long as your right to experience doesn't infringe on someone else’s right to experience in some way. Of course children shouldn't be afforded these same rights because until they move out of their parents house they A) aren't self responsible & B)don't have a clear perception of reality and I believe that you'd have a hard time finding any adult that would claim otherwise so there is no debate there. That is a completely illogical and patronizing reason for outlawing anything. I'm all in favor of the regulation drugs because it should be made difficult for children to get but at the same time adults shouldn't be treated as children too and denied their birthright to any experience of their choosing. Adults are the fully realized human being. Children are merely humans in development and are the minority among us. A caterpillar can't fly because it hasn't earned the right to but once it matures and develops it's wings it's completely inhumane & immoral to chop off it's wings and force it to crawl around once again as a child and deprive it of the whole sky.

I've got one Lagochilus sprout left out of a dozen seeds planted and two that actually sprouted after 2 months of waiting. the other one that sprouted just flopped over and died for some reason and i've been just crossing my fingers hoping that the other one won't do the same. I've heard that they won't survive being grown in pots because they produce a really long tap root so I'm kind of torn about whether I should plant it in a big pot and hope that it will do well or whether I should take the chance that it will survive being planted out in the yard. I think that it experiences harsh winters in it's native environment so I would assume that it would do fine outside in the southeastern u.s. but I haven't found anyone that can confirm this. It's too bad I couldn't have ended up with two so that I could try both and see which worked better but since I only have one it's kind of crucial to figure out what to do. does anyone have any experience with this plant or any suggestions in general?

amanita's are too variable in activity to be realiable as a ritual sacrament. my vote for the origins of the mythic soma would have to go to some dung-loving psilocybe which would be consistant in potency and plentiful and would, as stated, explain the sacred cow thing among the hindu's. although i've never heard of the marijuana tea, it sounds theoretically possible since the fat in the milk would bring out and make orally active the thc much in the same way that butter does when making pot brownies. that would also be a probable candidate for soma considering the high esteem marijuana is held by hindu brahman's and then again it could also be a good chance that soma was a conconction of the two along with various other herbs maybe much in the same way that ayahuasca is prepared among the south american tribes.

Yeah the seeds of both khat & the different erythroxylum species are both legal to possess, trade, buy, etc. although both plants are illegal to grow and/or possess but that's why I was looking to trade for seeds and not plants. I'm sure that the average person wouldn't be in any danger of prosecution for growing either plant if for no other reason than most policemen don't know what either plant looks like and aren't actively looking for those particular plants especially since khat has been used as a decorative landscaping plant in the u.s. for years before it became illegal and many people who have them growing in their yards would be completely unaware of any change in law concerning the plant. While there exists no climate inside the u.s. where the erythroxylum species can grow outside of a greenhouse and considering the many acres of plants needed to produce any significant amount of cocaine, it's fair to say that that plants illegality is completely due to DEA paranoia and self-serving, globally promoted, ignorance but of course the illegality of both plants also provides a convenient loophole to rough up and/or discredit anyone from dissidents to any average person who may have pissed off a cop in some way who happen to be growing those plants and it also gives probable cause to invade and render inside-out the houses of any of those people in the hopes of finding other materials suitable for prosecution. Especially in the case of khat which was made illegal because it was the cultural intoxicant of muslims (who, as we know, are all terrorists and otherwise are evil anyway because they don't worship jesus) the same way coffee & alcohol are cultrual intoxicants in America & Europe which isn't surprising when you investigate America's history with the war on drugs and learn that up until the early 1900's every drug known to man was legal to buy, sell, trade and use until the outlaw of opium which was the culturally sanctioned drug of choice among chinese immigrants and then the outlaw of marijuana which was the culturally sanctioned drug of choice amongt mexican immigrants.

But, as stated, all I was attempting to do was to make a trade for a few innocent seeds which are completely legal (Until further notice).

peace

I'm looking for a small sampling of seeds from any or all of these plants. Just enough to get 1 or 2 plants going.
ephedra gerardiana
ephedra sinensis
catha edulis
valeriana officinalis
humulus japonicus
humulus lupulus
peganum harmala
datura stramonium
datura inoxia
ficus religiosa
piper nigrum
erythroxylum novogranatense
mirabilis multiflora
rivea corymbosa
acacia maidenii
petunia violacea
scirpus atrovirens
lactuca virosa
kaempferia galanga
ilex paraguariensis
paullinia cupana
scutellaria lateriflora
diplopterys cabrerana
psychotria viridis
banisteriopsis caapi

I've got the following to trade. PM if interested:
papaver somniferum
nepeta catoria
passiflora incarnata
trichocereus peruvianus
coriaria thymifolia
calea zacatechichi
anthemis nobilis
ipomea tricolor (heavenly blues & pearly gates)
nicotiana rustica
& leonotis leonurus