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Its timely that you should bring this subject up Avery, its one my partner and I discussed a while back.  Why people make the choices they do, when they know from experience what the consequences will be. 
  I have friends that make terrible choices, I myself do the same at times.  It uses to piss me off to no end, but something happened, and I dont know how, or from where the light got in, but now I find it so endearing that my friends are so human, so fragile, so beautifully flawed.  I love there ridiculous little foolishnesses.  The one that wont leave the house without her crystals, my buddy that refuses to eat anything warmed in a microwave.  What beauty, in such a small package, this human body.

If you still hold to the concept of self there will always be a gulf between perceived and perceiver.  If there is no one to perceive then no object exists nor anyone to perceive it.  And no longer a need for a god, "thou art that,''.  Or as a sufi saint once said quit this world, quit the next world, then quit quiting.

Hummmm,
 .

Sariputra, know then: form does not differ from emptiness, nor does emptiness differ from form. Form is no other than emptiness, emptiness no other than form. The same is true of feelings, perceptions, impulses and consciousness.

Sariputra, all dharmas are marked with emptiness. None are born or die, nor are they defiled or immaculate, nor do they wax or wane. Therefore, where there is emptiness, there is no form, no feeling, no perception, no impulse, nor is there consciousness. No eye, ear, nose, tongue, body, or mind. No color, sound, smell, taste, touch, or object of mind. There is no domain of sight nor even domain of mind consciousness. There is no ignorance nor is there ceasing of ignorance. There is no withering, no death, nor is there ceasing of withering and death. There is no suffering, or cause of suffering, or cease in suffering, or path to lead from suffering. There is no cognition, nor even attainment.

So know that the Bodhisattva, indifferent to any kind of attainment whatsoever but dwelling in Prajna wisdom, is freed of any thought covering, get rid of the fear bred by it, has overcome what can upset and in the end reaches utmost Nirvana. All Buddhas of past and present, and Buddhas of future time, through faith in Prajna wisdom, come to full and perfect Enlightenment.

Therefore, one should know the Prajna paramita as the mantra of great knowledge, the miraculous, the utmost, the unequalled mantra, whose words relieve all suffering. This is highest wisdom, true beyond all doubt.

Know then and proclaim the Prajna paramita mantra. It spells like this:

Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate, bodhi svaha !

Loving the forest Zaka, dont need a grounds keeper by any chance, do ya? LOL  Thanks all of you for you replys, i'm going to give it a try.

How hard is it to start psychotria from leaf cutting?  I'm thinking of giving it a try, also can coca nova. be started this way?

chopped wood, carried water, ate a lot of hamburger :

ya Bob sure has a way with words.
  Entheogens can for sure open the mind, but then what?  We need a high culture to fall back on, and I think this is what you are alluding to no?
  I always find it so ironical that most people that reject organized religion, search for years and only are happy when they have replaced that feeling of support with another organized something.
  Its like installing a new version of windows.

yep, like drug therapy :e_biggrin:
 I have friends as well as my own daughter that are a bit into " this is what a good -------, [Chrisitian, Buddhist, ect take your pick should look and act like}.  They think the outside form denotes what's happening inside, but what if there isnt anyone home in there? And its just individual kama playing its self out? :lol:
  When my daughter gets a bit fascist with her diet and spirituallity, I like to remind her of the Zen butcher who became enlightened.  Zen is full of characters like this.
  Ajhans Chah's teacher was a real cranky prick on the outside, but an enlightened master all the same, who led many of his deciples to enlightenment.

I think what motivated my daughter and her family to turn vegan was a book called the Chinese solution, or something like that.  I havent read it yet but its on the list.  
  From an environmental perspective being a vegan makes good sense, less impact for sure on the planet.  But to do it proper you really have to study how to mix foods so your not making your self malnourished.  
  But from a spiritual perspective, I think there is a lot of ego involvement with practicing austerities, and as far as violating the first tenant of Buddhism, well the Buddha DID NOT lay down hard and fast rules, they are only guidelines to follow as closely as you can.  I was told this by my Ajhan who was a disciple of the Vernerable Ajhan Chah.  Spiritual egotism is a huge hindrance on the path.
 If not eating meat a bit, hinders your health or practice, then you spiritually are obligated to eat meat.  After all most Mahayana Buddhist take the vow to do everything in there power to help all sentient beings, you help them most when you are free from delusion, not just by following rules.    His Holiness the Dali Lama was told to eat meat by his doctors because he was not able to practice and function at a high level while a vegetarian.  Everything in balance, you are far better off from a spiritual level to help other humans than animals, because only in the human physical form can beings attain enlightenment, that doesn't mean to be cruel to animals.  But its probably best to have as little dependence on animals as you can, either for companionship or food.
  That brings up a whole new subject, pets.  Lord people and their dogs and cats, now thats hard on the environment, they both are carnivores and are responsible for the slaughter of thousands of animals to feed them, and yet everyone has one or the other, even vegan Buddhist  :lol:  :lol:

Hummm thats interesting LW, i guess in a strictly academic or religious interpretation of sentientcy.  It would be any being that is not aware of its true nature, from a Buddhist point of view anyway.  Its said that when the Buddha attained enlightenment he saw that all sentient beings were there already, i cant remember which sutra that was from.  But i guess it points to the fact that if we can peak under the veil of ignorance {delusion} everything is in the enlightenment. Soo I guess once the veil of ignorance is lifted our true nature shines forth.  Thats a bit long winded, but i think what i wanted to say would be  that your vegan friend labors under as much ignorance as us flesh eaters :wink:
  And do you ever wonder why they always make fake meat look and taste like the real thing?  One of my daughters is a vegan and she lives on fake hamburgers and wieners.  Seems very weird to me.   :roll:

Ya its easy to put to much credence in the goings on of " the world",  its all just us.  No outside,"world", be kind, be gentle, and our world will change.  And by the way, I think your a very positive person, and enjoy reading your posts.

The world will always be the world, the beings in it however change constantly,  so there is hope.  Hope for freedom, hope for peace, hope for love.

The seeds of tribulus terrestris are said to increase free testosteron and also i remember reading someplace that the seeds also contained the same alkaloid as sirian rue.  Has anyone ever used it as a aphrodasiac or for it harmin content?  Is it worth trying?

I know that body builders and athletes use it to increase free testosterone, and I believe it is a good source of harmalen.

Humm okay so I guess we can rule that one out.  I think that some species of Pediocactus and optunia fragilis live there but dont know if they contain alkaloids.   peace