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Nah stonehenge, I'm not saying that.  Although, I am not one who values rules or guidelines much, I was just arguing that time-outs are in fact punishments.

So yeah, this post isn't anything to do with the issue of fiend being banned anymore.
I just have to respond to a few things.

"A time-out in my family is not a punishment and it's not meant to hurt. It is used simply to teach what is acceptable behavior and what is not."

The reason a time-out teaches one what is acceptable behavior or not is because it's a punishment.
(edit: this made me curious so I did some googling of child time-out's.  It almost always is referred to as a punishment.  Sometimes just as disciplinary action.  There are cases where a time-out can allow a child to calm down or something, but if you are using it to teach what is appropriate behavior, it only makes sense that it is viewed as a punishment to the child.  They do something inappropriate, they get time-out.  They don't want to do the inappropriate behavior agan because they don't want time-out again.)

As far as your ego's being hurt or not, our egos play a large role in our actions and how we view things(obviously), when a person like fiend ignores any input you have its going to hurt your ego, that's my opinion.  (That of course is directed to people who fiend acctualy did this to)

Yes I am reading the thread, I am just not only replying to stuff you've said kemp but everyones posts.  What I have learned from running channels is that bans are totally unnecessary.  In almost every case(not all) the real reason is to get back at the person, people get their feelings hurt/pissed off(if you really want to differentiate the two JRL, I don't) and want them punished.
Yeah, I've lost members in my channels because I refused to ban someone who was pissing people off, because someone can't stand simply ignoring someone, they want them punished.  Half the time they say the same stuff, it's for the sake of the channel, it's a totally unemotional decision, whatever.  Personally I'd rather lose members who say stuff like, "it's them or me"  How childish.

There is nothing wrong with an OP having people on ignore, what horrible thing is going to happen, you are going to miss them breaking the rules and not know to ban them?  How tragic that would be.  As far as the confusion caused by people being on ignore, it can be clarified with a few words, but really it's fairly obvious when theres an ignoree in a conversation.

I agree with your last post JRL, I'm not defending fiend nor saying he simply is pointing out where people are wrong.  I'm just saying that removing him isn't necessary.
Yeah everything you said about fiend is correct, he doesn't respect other peoples knowledge and that hurts their ego's.  

And kemp, when I was put on time-out as a kid, it definitely hurt my feelings.  Punishments are suppose to hurt.

(Edit: Okay I've read through the thread a couple more times to try to understand your guy's views about it better.  I get it, you want a chat room where everyone is friends and everyone is friendly. You'd rather remove someone than have to ignore them.  If it's the decision of everyone in the channel to deal with people in that way than that's obviously how it should be dealt with.  It's just not how I would deal with it, I don't get pissed off so easily and am willing to accept someones personality no matter what they do.  I find huge faults in myself and every single person I have ever met and can sincerely say that fiends faults are no worse than anyone else's, just a bit more apparent.
Psychadelics often help people learn to see this and help people learn to not get pissed off by someone like fiend, but to accept how he is.  You don't even need to put him on ignore, just learn to not be so affected by what he says.  I think that ability will prove useful in many areas of life, I know it has helped me a lot.   But again, it's your guy's community and you all seem to agree with one another so feel free to ban annoyances without further complaint from me.)

sorry i deleted a few of my posts, my thoughts were a bit cluttered.
I wasn't referring to any bans you made in the past, more what you've said in the forum.  and yes forcing someone to leave a channel can hurt them if they didn't want to leave, nothing confusing about that.  I also see no reason why ignore is an unacceptable means of dealing with an annoyance on IRC if there are people who don't want him gone, again I'm not referring to past bans but the idea put forward to remove him long-term.  
Anyways, I still believe what i said previously to be true, people just tend to hide the underlying reasons behind their actions.

Just to clarify what I meant:
Despite the fact that you can ignore someone and no longer see what they type, people tend to refuse to do this and are only satisfied when the person is removed.  They will make many excuses, such as they don't want the person bothering other members and such.  But the fact remains that if you aren't satisfied with not seeing what the person types, you've turned it into a personal issue and are looking for more than just cessation of whatever is happening, you want to hurt them specifically because of it.  I could see how when people like JRL say that either fiend leaves or they do, you can honestly say you want him gone for the sake of the channel, but JRL could just learn the ignore command too opposed to being stubborn and only being satisfied with hurting fiend by having him removed.

I think it's fairly obvious you've taken something he has said way too personally.  I think trying to get someone to admit they are wrong, even if done repetitively is a really small offense.  And no spiritplants isn't the only place that rarely bans people, I've ran channels or had higher access in channels where it was exactly the same.  It's called respecting someones freedom to express their own opinions.  If the entire channel didn't want someone there, than there is no point to them being there and it'd make sense to remove them.  But that isn't the case here.  I have had problems with fiend in the past and I really dislike his attitude and egotistical tendecies.  He can be very obnoxious and will not back down. But I still don't think he has done anything to warrant being removed.  If it's dissing someones ignorant use of a drug, disagreeing fervently with someones opinion or just going a bit overboard trying to get someone to admit they are wrong, the fact remains the thing getting hurt here is a few peoples ego's. Seriously, if a few people want him to be able to stay and a few people don't, why can't the people who don't like what he has to say just ignore him?  The only reason I can see is you and others want revenge for what he's said that offended you and are using the guise of protecting the channel or whatever to get rid of him.

I think if someone has such a problem with fiend that they won't rejoin the channel because of that, they are the ones with a problem.  Ignore commands work really well as someone else mentioned.

I think the main thing fiend is offensive to is certain peoples ego's.  I could see using temporary bans maybe but I doubt he is going to return if he is banned too many times anyways.  Really I don't see what he could possibly say that would be so offensive to you guys, yeah, he doesn't have any problem with arguing his opinions strongly, he may say something like, taking a specific drug is stupid.  It's not something that should really piss you off.