Spirit Plants - Discussion of sacred plants and other entheogens

Plant Matters => The Desert => Topic started by: Jupe on September 16, 2005, 12:07:57 AM

Title: Cactus ID Help
Post by: Jupe on September 16, 2005, 12:07:57 AM
these are from our new decorative garden..any ideas? (//http://static.flickr.com/24/43687151_a40576785d_b.jpg)
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 16, 2005, 03:25:28 AM
You have a winner!  Nice San Pedro Jupe! :D

Peace.
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 16, 2005, 10:54:33 AM
thanx Pharmer....I  have read and read all the literature describing the ID process, but until you have one  in front of you, its just words.  In my neighborhood here, there a quite a few old estates, with old clumps of cactii  needed "rescue".  
   Is that fat profile cross-section the best ID feature, or should I start to learn the needle structure and placement?  (especially for other more exotic  varieties?  thanx for your Help!!!  :D  :D
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on September 16, 2005, 11:49:55 AM
The v notch placement on tricos (above the spines, as shown in the photo) are similar on all variations.

lw
Title:
Post by: JRL on September 16, 2005, 12:47:59 PM
A side picture would help too. Might be pachanoi might be scopulicolus(sp?)
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 16, 2005, 02:33:52 PM
It doesn't look like a Echinopsis Scopulicola to me.  

http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/ ... icola.html (http://www.desert-tropicals.com/Plants/Cactaceae/Echinopsis_scopulicola.html)

I am certain what you have there is Trichocereus Pachanoi.  It has a slightly unusual look about it probably due to the conditions in which it was grown.

Peace.
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 16, 2005, 11:28:34 PM
(//http://static.flickr.com/30/43687149_666d688486_b.jpg)

here's another shot...LW what are "V" notches?  thanx everybody for this help.
Title:
Post by: CJ on September 16, 2005, 11:58:56 PM
Wow..look at that streak like mottling on the tallest coloumn...that is sure purty. Another might  object to the obvious growth sections, but to me it gives unique charactor to the whole appearance of the coloumns. Way more than the ole everyday Pachanoi,tho` there is always other surprises and exeptions to the norm ,no matter what.Always poss. a hybrid say w/juul`s,tips showing some good width.

     Interesting!! That Asking for a side view was definetly worth it....
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 17, 2005, 12:04:24 AM
The V notches are just above the areole.  The point of the V is at the top of the areole.  These notches are helpful in determining direction when planting midsection cuttings vertically (so as not to plant upside down).

You can see the V in this pic above the areole.  If you look at the areoles on the side you can see one side of the V notches there.  These are more noticable on some Pedros than others.  It varies quite a bit.  Some times they aren't very noticable.
(//http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b119/pharmer1/DSCF0389.jpg)

Peace.
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 17, 2005, 12:28:40 AM
Thanx for Help.....so the V notches are the very slight indentations immediatly above the spines?

I have also read about the "dominant" spine in a cluster pointing downwards.  Is this a wives tale or good ID feature?

I will be putting this info to the test tomorrow, as my friend has a pickup truck full of euphorbias and "tall" (he says) cactii that need  homes.  I'll say yes to everything anyway, but it will be fun to see whats what....  thanx again folks Jupe
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 17, 2005, 12:42:30 AM
Yes, the V notches are the slight indentations above the areoles.  The dominant spine thing is more applicable to Peruvianus and Bridgesii.  It doesn't really work that way with Pachanoi.  Notice in the pic I posted that the dominant spine is pointing up on all of the areoles.

Good luck with the cacti hunting.  It sounds promising.  Tall columnar cacti can't be too bad.  

Peace.
Title:
Post by: visionarybear on September 19, 2005, 11:09:49 PM
personally, the top pics look more like Juul's giant to me, the triangulation of the ribs seems scop but with the pachanoi-like growth tip i would think it looks like a juuls giant. but as previously mentioned, it could also be a hybrid of sorts. nice nice cacti tho
~vb
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 20, 2005, 12:13:40 AM
I suspect the appearance is largely a result of changes in the way the cactus was cared for.  Maybe in the last year or two it has received better care?  It really doesn't look like Scopulicola or Juuls Giant to me, but you guys do have me wondering a bit.  I still think it is Pachanoi.  Look at the portion toward the bottom of the plant where it is hourglass shaped, and pinches in repeatedly every three inches or so.  This cactus has had a hard life.  Luckily now I imagine it is getting better care as the tips are growing out nice and healthy.  I hope more Trichocereus growers will weigh in on this.  I am actually surprised more haven't voiced there opinion.

Peace.
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 20, 2005, 12:34:22 PM
haha heres a Salvia growers post instead....The Cactii are about 4 ft. tall, and I think the uneven care has resulted in the pinching.  They were potbound in a nursery.  I have to be careful not to baby them as I do all other plants at this estate.  We planted them high, (in the ground haha) and used a fair amount of lava, so I'm hoping drainage won't be an issue.
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on September 20, 2005, 12:40:56 PM
It just looks like they haven't been babied right now, is all. Some years get more water than others in the desert. It looks like they were babied for a bunch fo years and then neglected for three or so. I like the natural look.

lw
Title:
Post by: CJ on September 20, 2005, 10:16:08 PM
So do I!

     It breaks up the uniformity,and instructs how the plant may survive/what kind of strategy,in the wild.
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 21, 2005, 10:53:02 AM
"I like the natural look."
Well I do too.  It's just in my opinion fat healthy robust growth is natural.  Check out these pics of these San Pedro in Peru (one of them is growing wild).

http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/sanpedro/San_Pedro.html (http://www.xs4all.nl/~knehnav/sanpedro/San_Pedro.html)

"Some years get more water than others in the desert."
These aren't really desert plants.  

Peace.
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on September 21, 2005, 11:03:21 AM
OK...Some years get more water than others no matter where the location.

Btw, the inner beauth of the plant interests me much more than its visible growth patterns. Physical beauty remainss over rated, imo.

lw
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on September 21, 2005, 11:05:48 AM
Pharmer: Have you never seen crusty, hacked up Pedros in the wild? I know they exist. Granted, they may not be as photogenic as the pagent winners and therefore get less press, but they are out there.

lw
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 21, 2005, 11:12:43 AM
Yes, the inner beauty is the most important.  I agree.  Yes, there are plants in the wild like the ones you speak of.  There are also many of these plants growing in deserts today which probably receive sparse watering some years.  I agree with all of these points.  

Peace.
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on September 21, 2005, 11:16:23 AM
And, yes, I agree that those photos you posted show some healthy and happy looking plants, bro. Look at that girth!  :)

lw
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 21, 2005, 11:27:04 AM
:D Yes, that is an impressive site all around.  Full of good information and pics.  I like the pics of the market in Peru and the San Pedro Monstrosus (on the page I posted the link to).  That is the most impressive looking monstrosus I have ever seen!  Look at the branches that look like a Lophocereus Schottii Monstrosus, and that crest.  I have never seen anything like it.    

Peace.
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 21, 2005, 12:44:15 PM
cool site!!!....thanx for link Lots of "fenceposts" stacked there in the market!!!!
....Picture of monstrosus had some lateral growths that reminded me to ask about this plant.  Many of the plants we bought came with no tags,  we just got  them just they looked so cool!!!  This plant has never had spines, so we have been assuming its a  succulent.  We are remodeling right now, so all my cactii books are boxed up . Any good online links you guys could posty?,  I hate being a pest :oops:  :oops:  ( I figure you guys like a challenge anyway)  thanx Jupe
(//http://static.flickr.com/30/45343497_3b1bc87a8d_o.jpg)
Title:
Post by: Pharmer on September 21, 2005, 12:49:08 PM
:D It's a Lophocereus Schottii Monstrosus.  That's what I spoke about in my post I thought the San Pedro Monstrosus looked like.  Cool cactus!!!  It can only be propagated from cuttings and never has areoles/spines.

Peace.
Title:
Post by: winder on September 21, 2005, 07:40:38 PM
And if you ever can tell that your Lophocereus Schottii monstrose is growing, please let me know.

Mine has been in permanent idle for months despite sun, warmth, and gentle watering.

Not rotting, not shriveling, but not growing.  WTF?
Title:
Post by: Jupe on September 22, 2005, 12:19:56 AM
Very interesting.  Is it an entheogen?  I have no intention of harvesting it, but my employers and I have been babying this for two or three years, its a favorite,  it came somewhat rootbound, but doubled in size over that time, you can almost see the growth stages. A snail ate a hole in it and I was almost docked for pay!!!  (almost serious here)
  Now its in the garden, don't know if it likes it there or not, everything here is tropical (haha my salvias like that), so I have to be careful not to over water these new plants.  

I will ask this question at the risk of appearing clueless.  I just looked at EA136's pictures in that new thread.   Many of those looked really familiar. (ie I see them everywhere it seems)
 How does  one establish pedigree,  for entheogenic species, without sampling and without a trustworthy seller?  Flower structure doesn't seem to be too helpful either.... Am I just being overwhelmed?
                                           :oops:  :oops:  :oops:

have to add this edit: just found the columnar cactus site....so I guess I have some more learning to do.
http://www.columnar-cacti.org/#index (http://www.columnar-cacti.org/#index)
Columnar Cacti
Title:
Post by: CJ on September 22, 2005, 10:30:56 PM
That is a unique lookin cacti,it`s appearance alone is enough...a good book for you is what i have read through now about four times(wake-up material in the morning before work).

     Thats Trouts Notes on San Pedro,Part B. Available from a cirtain 'Bouncing omniverous large mammal' self described vendor.
Title:
Post by: EA-1306 on September 23, 2005, 07:25:54 PM
One of the guys involved in the columnar cactus site also has another site he has been working on.  Bob Resslers other site: http://community.webshots.com/user/brcacti (http://community.webshots.com/user/brcacti)
It gets more pics from week to week, and I suspect it will get some nice Trichocereus photos sooner or later.