For those scientifically interested: There is a new extraction report over at DMT World ---- entitled DMT the Easy Way.... report states that smokable DMT is attainable that is white/transluscent , of high purity, and yields are excellent ... "course senor would never condone such practises where proscrbed by law... 'Tis merely an interesting read 8) -------- senorsal
I heard dmt world was down but now is back up.
I assume you mean marsofold's tek, a rework of vovin.
Had just read Vovins' tek a day or two before it seemed to dissappear of the face of the earth... Might be a rewrite, but seems to me that there was no mention of vinegar in Vovin.... Next time I have some money (and in a locale where permissable) I intend to pursue this one... Somehow, the tek seems more concise and easy than I remember Vovin being......... senorsal
Looking at the tech, it seems pretty sound from a chemical persepctive.
OK thanks senor, I will read the tek more carefully, thanks.
Distilled vinegar has been reported in a number of places as a safe and very effective acid for the mhrb extraction (anywhere from 1/3 diluted to full strength), though there are cautions that this extracts the spice in an acetate form that will get a little screwed up if defatting is done. Seems like some folks report getting away without any defatting when using these dried RBs though.
May the spice be with you.
Can I assume that the same tek for MHRB could be used for say, Desmanthus illinoensis, since both use root bark?
That aside, how chemically sound are the teks?
And how benign would the other chemicals contained in Desmanthus illinoensis be considered:
Substantial amounts of N,N-DMT, MMT, ( J. Ott, 1993). Also contains a diglucoside of kaempferol, rutin, myricitrin, quercitrin and two gallic esters myricitrin. (K. Kindscher, 1992) One of the esters has been shown to have significant insecticidal value
seems like we need ole winder to ring in here and spaek of thing chemical eh??? The one thing I liked about the tek is it eliminated alot of the crap one has to do with defatting.... I have no knowledge concerning Bundleflower (would sure be interested to know) , but am I not correct that Desmanthus has a much lower concentration of reputed elf materiale :wink: -senorsal
At Edot I raised my doubts about the table salt + vinegar tek, but was assured by Nate there that this tek is effective. The doubt I had was based on the thought that someone might think that table salt + vinegar would form HCl to form an HCl salt with an alkaloid. This to me seem preposterous. Nate explained that rather the table salt and vinegar work a selective solubilization. That may be more believable than generation of HCl. However, I haven't tried it and I am still unconvinced of all of this.
HCl is easy enough to get. Why not try it?
...... just remembering the good ole days when one could get mescaline from sawdust. :shock:
Bzzzzzzt!
Haven't read anything about vinegar and salt, although vinegar is listed as an alternative in QT's tek. What do you all make of this particular tek?
No way in hell vinegar and salt will form hcl. That would imply that vinegar is a stronger acid than hydrochloric. However, if the tec works, even if the chemical reasoning behind it is incorrect, it would be a good thing to use since both those substances are easy to get. Has anyone tried the vinegar and salt thing? I'm sure it would work on d illinoiensis or similar dmt containing plants if it works on mhrb.
yeah the vinegar salt thing works. The any-acid and salt thing works as long as the salt your using is more soluable than the substance you want
you acidify to form a soluable salt....then basify to form an insoluable freebase..but its not entire insoluable so some is bound up in solution. That solution can only hold so much, so you add something that solublizes easily (like NaCl) to help force the freebase out of solution.
thats all it is
is"DMT the Easy Way" the exact title of the DMT world post...
or is the one at the top entitled something more or less close close to "DMT the Easy Way" what we're talking about?
could some one post a write up of the easy dmt extraction tek?
i've been studying vovin's, but if there is some kind of improvement on it, i'd love to see it.
-j.
Yaeh well, not to be dismissive, but if you've studied Vovin, then one would assume you have noted that the "easy tek is, in fact quite similar, but has omitted some of the steps Vovin used as far as his contention that oily product would happen if'n
one did not follow his base/wash parameters.........
d'oh
-j.
Quote from: "winder"At Edot I raised my doubts about the table salt + vinegar tek, but was assured by Nate there that this tek is effective. The doubt I had was based on the thought that someone might think that table salt + vinegar would form HCl to form an HCl salt with an alkaloid. This to me seem preposterous. Nate explained that rather the table salt and vinegar work a selective solubilization. That may be more believable than generation of HCl. However, I haven't tried it and I am still unconvinced of all of this.
HCl is easy enough to get. Why not try it?
vinegar & salt it for extracting harmine/harmaline from syrian rue seeds yes/no?
(hasenfratz quoted in manske)
I had indeed confused things, yes.
ooops.
The vinegar + salt tek is indeed for syrian rue.
I have only ever tried to grow mine, not extract my rue seeds.
Apparently the harmala alkaloids are insoluble as the hydrochloride salts (weird) but such is not the case with DMT. My apologies for failing to check beforehand and mucking up this thread.
For the record, the teks on DMTworld.org do work... Marsofold's tek works great. I find if you use vovin's tek, that it is best to do the first 2 defats with xylene, then one with naphtha or heptane... The polar wash on Vovins mentions using sodium carbonate in your wash water, but also an ammonia/distilled water 50/50 wash can be done, to remove hydroxides. Or this is taken from one tek at DMTWorld, that I recommend, if you decide to skip the polar wash, and it works just as well, without the risk of you ionizing your DMT in a water wash without accurate PH tester and such things... In other words skip the polar wash and evaporate naphtha or freeze seperate the dmt and get the crystals, then proceed here...
radio879 posted this:
Ok now is when I take all the pretty white/clear stuff, and filter any leftover NaOH off. I don't know who first mentioned this method but I find it works great. I take a funnel, put a coffee filter in it, and put all the DMT in there, and pour some 10% "janitorial strength" ammonia from ace hardware (10% ammonia 90% water, it should look clear and have nothing else) right on the DMT from the bottle (i'll of course have a jar or something under the funnel for the ammonia to go) in the filter, and it'll drain down through the funnel etc. The purpose of the ammonia is to keep the ph high (around 10 I think) so that you don't lose any DMT (or very very little) and the water dissolves that NaOH, leaving you just with DMT in the filter paper. I'll let this sit a little while so its all drained through, then take the filter paper out and find some way to set it somewhere, so the water/ammonia left on it can evaporate (usually i'll have that computer fan aimed at it). Sometimes during drying it i'll take a cut straw or something and poke at the DMT and move it around to make sure its all exposed to the air.
If you follow those two tips with vovins tek, instead just naphtha defats and instead of the polar wash, you should wind up with almost clear or white crystals... Qt's tek is outdated and suggests you make the acidic water ph of 2, which is too low. That low will make more gunk in your end product. PH 4-5 is best. Also it suggests maybe 11 for basifying which will make emulsions take forever to settle. Make the ph 13 or so, the shit will seperate quickly, if not a hot water bath can help... I would post a tek but it takes a long time to write all out, so just remember these tips with most of the basic DMT acid/base extraction teks.
If you want to make PH paper, it is easily made from red cabbage. Google it if you need to, or I'll post one when I return from my trip..
BTW, vinegar is fine to use for the acid, white vinegar. But for larger teks, it might be easier to buy a bottle of muriatic acid..
There are even easier ways of going about this. Recently dg420 posted a new tek that blows all of the others out of the water in terms of ease. Unfortunately all I have is his first release. I think I may remember the second one though.
QuoteSo this is exactly what I plan to do:
Grind 140g MHRB to fine powder.
Place in 1 gallon glass jar.
Add 1/2 gallon boiling distilled water.
Add 5 tablespoons muriatic acid (30% HCL).
Shake well.
Place in double boiler (crock pot?) outside.
Shake every 3 minutes for 1/2 hour.
Make basic solution:
5 tablespoons lye + 2.5 cups water
Add 3/4 cup base.
Add 4 cups hot naptha.
Shake.
Add another 3/4 cup base to make all MHRB black.
Shake.
Cool for one hour (or more) in cold water bath to separate polar & non-polar layers.
Siphon off naptha, place in glass bowl in hot water bath in front of fan.
Reduce volume by half, allow to cool.
Place in large (9" x 13") glass baking dish.
Cover dish, place in freezer 1/2 hour.
Remove from freezer, uncover, and place outside to fully evaporate for several hours (days?).
When fully dry, scrape up crystals/powder and prepare to meet elfin creatures.
The later changes I believe were:
1500g starting material
3 gallon vessel
grind material and fill vessel with enough hot water to cover material
mix 1.5 cups HCl to 3 cups of water and add to vessel
roll vessel and leave to sit for an hour
mix 1-2 cup of lye to 5 cups of water and add to vessel until everything turns black
take ice cold naptha and add to vessel, complete seperation should be complete within minutes. As soon as possible extract the naptha and repeat with ice cold naptha at least two more times. It was found that if the cold naptha is added while the vessel is still hot that emulsions are not much of an issue.
collect extracted naptha and slow dry for best crystal formations.
I really hope I can get another nooker to verify all this. The only thing I'm not certain of is his exact amounts of acid and base. However it was pointed out that these are quite variable. One with higher quality starting material will want to use more acid then one with lesser quality and when one adds base this is done until everything turns completely black.
Very easy and very effective.
dg420's second write up
Quotebe careful, gloves goggles no pilot lights and blahblahblah
1.5kg mhrb powder put into 2.5gal carboy.(hdpe water jugs, free with water)
add hot water to cover. not too hot, 180* or so.
add 1.5 cups 30%hcl to 3 cups water, add to carboy.
shake well and let sit(10-45min)(skipped the setting a few times with no problems)
add 1.5-2 cups lye to 4 cups water, add to carboy. mix turns black
add naptha to nearly fill the carboy.
shake and roll gently, usually settles %100 within minutes
siphon naptha(note; when this concentrated it comes out sorta yellowish)
add more cold naptha to the still hot mix at least twice more (be quick so its still hot!)
once the mix is cool you'll need to add hot naptha or it'll emulsify
evap slow, no fan for two-three days.
watch the crystals grow.
the largest solid single cluster was 5/8"x 3/8" and weighed .7g and was white with slight yellow tint
well there it is. cant be made simpler than that, i tried and its not possible.
the amounts of water and naptha are variable. so are the lye and acid depending on the potency of the starting material.
foafs was around 1.2- 1.5%
for weak bark the amount of acid and base could be lowered, but probably wont matter.
doesnt this seem like a lot lye to anyone else?
hmm