Spirit Plants - Discussion of sacred plants and other entheogens

I've been grappling with this one as of late.

An acquaintance was having a discussion with my wife about dietary practices and how it relates to spirituality. He claimed that only a practicing vegan could make the claim of having real compassion toward other life forms. He claimed that any person NOT a vegan or consumer of only raw organic produce (Like him) was a "speciesist." (Never heard that word before.)

Anyway, part of his argument was the first tenant of Buddhism of never killing another another sentient being.      

However, I consider plant life to also be sentient. So, under my roof, anyone who places value of one sentient being over another sentient being is a "speciesist.

Life consumes life any way you cut it, imo,

lw

it's all energy in vibration.
plants have auras - alive, alive oh

what is a sentient being?
what's okay to eat?
moderation in everything. Not pigging out, overconsuming - but rather with awareness of taking life to give life -(growing a carrot and consciously picking it to eat sounds similar to raising a winged creature or four legged being and taking its life to feed hungry humans)

But choice of diet has to be personal, taking all factors into account: personal lifestyle, protein needs, plus the essential nutrients required to live a healthy life for as long as possible.

Do any of you take food supplements?

Awareness of self, perhaps?

But I don't know if that answers the question so much as it begs the next question.  What counts as being aware of one's self?

My personal philosophy is a bit different.  I am convinced that everyone should, at least once in their life, raise some animal from infancy to slaughtering weight.  Slaughter it.  Butcher it.  Cook it.  And eat it.

It can be a chicken, if you like, or if you're up for the challenge something large like a pig or a cow.  

I truly believe that only at that point, where you've cared for the needs and well being of what is ultimately your food, can you truly appreciate that life ends on your dinner plate.  It doesn't matter if you eat pork, beef, chicken, or carrots.  When you eat, something else died to make it possible.  If you eat nothing but alfalfa sprouts, they still die.  The difference is that the life of one single cow provides many meals, where as one meal of sprouts requires the ending of many lives.

Right on, Glider.

The only problem I have with raising animals for food is that I quickly bond with most any life form to which I tend. (Plant or animal.)

Hunting wild game is another story. I'm more comfortable with that role. And yet, there is still a connection I feel with my prey....

I once spotted a couple of rooster pheasants in a grove I had permission to hunt. I shot one of the birds the first day, but the other eluded me. As a matter of fact, that bird managed to outsmart me on a few occasions, (once emerging from a hiding spot at the base of a tree on the edge of the grove walking a few paces and flying off as I unloaded my gun yards away.) This bird was able to outflank me in that grove on a few occasions, only flying when he was safely out of range. In the end, I would have regretted shooting that bird, but it never happened, as I never had the opportunity......

lw

Hummm thats interesting LW, i guess in a strictly academic or religious interpretation of sentientcy.  It would be any being that is not aware of its true nature, from a Buddhist point of view anyway.  Its said that when the Buddha attained enlightenment he saw that all sentient beings were there already, i cant remember which sutra that was from.  But i guess it points to the fact that if we can peak under the veil of ignorance {delusion} everything is in the enlightenment. Soo I guess once the veil of ignorance is lifted our true nature shines forth.  Thats a bit long winded, but i think what i wanted to say would be  that your vegan friend labors under as much ignorance as us flesh eaters :wink:
  And do you ever wonder why they always make fake meat look and taste like the real thing?  One of my daughters is a vegan and she lives on fake hamburgers and wieners.  Seems very weird to me.   :roll:

I started reading The Omnivore's Dilemma awhile ago but never finished it. Michael Polan goes on and on about corn. There is only so much reading about corn a man can take. However the next book he wrote in the series, In Defense of Food is quite good, I'm actively reading it and do plan on finishing this one. It breaches these same questions. The answers found in these books are his and his alone. Only when we have our own answers will we be complete.

I think what motivated my daughter and her family to turn vegan was a book called the Chinese solution, or something like that.  I havent read it yet but its on the list.  
  From an environmental perspective being a vegan makes good sense, less impact for sure on the planet.  But to do it proper you really have to study how to mix foods so your not making your self malnourished.  
  But from a spiritual perspective, I think there is a lot of ego involvement with practicing austerities, and as far as violating the first tenant of Buddhism, well the Buddha DID NOT lay down hard and fast rules, they are only guidelines to follow as closely as you can.  I was told this by my Ajhan who was a disciple of the Vernerable Ajhan Chah.  Spiritual egotism is a huge hindrance on the path.
 If not eating meat a bit, hinders your health or practice, then you spiritually are obligated to eat meat.  After all most Mahayana Buddhist take the vow to do everything in there power to help all sentient beings, you help them most when you are free from delusion, not just by following rules.    His Holiness the Dali Lama was told to eat meat by his doctors because he was not able to practice and function at a high level while a vegetarian.  Everything in balance, you are far better off from a spiritual level to help other humans than animals, because only in the human physical form can beings attain enlightenment, that doesn't mean to be cruel to animals.  But its probably best to have as little dependence on animals as you can, either for companionship or food.
  That brings up a whole new subject, pets.  Lord people and their dogs and cats, now thats hard on the environment, they both are carnivores and are responsible for the slaughter of thousands of animals to feed them, and yet everyone has one or the other, even vegan Buddhist  :lol:  :lol:

amrad: Thanks. What you say makes perfect sense to me.

"Practicing austerities," as you put it, has been a central tenant or at least a measuring stick by which many judge religious progress of their own as well as others. And this is where our ego really hinders our spiritual development, imo. Or to put it another way, this is where our egos may benefit from "special attention" to get past the personal fixation inherent in the human condition.  :cool2

lw

yep, like drug therapy :e_biggrin:
 I have friends as well as my own daughter that are a bit into " this is what a good -------, [Chrisitian, Buddhist, ect take your pick should look and act like}.  They think the outside form denotes what's happening inside, but what if there isnt anyone home in there? And its just individual kama playing its self out? :lol:
  When my daughter gets a bit fascist with her diet and spirituallity, I like to remind her of the Zen butcher who became enlightened.  Zen is full of characters like this.
  Ajhans Chah's teacher was a real cranky prick on the outside, but an enlightened master all the same, who led many of his deciples to enlightenment.

Drug therapy is what I was getting at. But there is more to it than the drug, imo.

These lyrics from "Desolation Row," by Bob Dylan are the best way I can describe it....

They're spoonfeeding Casanova
To get him to feel more assured
Then they'll kill him with self-confidence
After poisoning him with words

lw

ya Bob sure has a way with words.
  Entheogens can for sure open the mind, but then what?  We need a high culture to fall back on, and I think this is what you are alluding to no?
  I always find it so ironical that most people that reject organized religion, search for years and only are happy when they have replaced that feeling of support with another organized something.
  Its like installing a new version of windows.

Q: What do you do if you think your computer becomes infected with a virus?
A: Buy a Mac.

Seen on the read board at my work!

Resume topic!
Whats wrong with organization? Do you think organized drug use will be bad? Do you call a session of group ayahuasca use unorganized or is it just religion? Than again in SA ayahuasca use is religious as are parts of the USA. Or did you mean mainstream religion?

Naw, I'm alluding to the need of a teacher or interaction with a group of people familiar with the machinations of the ego in conjunction with drug therapy.

Btw, what did the zen butcher do the day after receiving enlightenment?

lw

chopped wood, carried water, ate a lot of hamburger : :)

:e_biggrin:  lol  :lol:

lw

I've been reading the scientific literature on Integrated Information Theory as of late, and I think people are actually starting to get a grip on what it means to be conscious. The theory is a little complicated to understand unless you have a pretty good background in mathematics and information theory, but at it's base (at least my interpretation of the base), it answers the question of "what is conscious" simply with "everything, but it's a matter of degree."

Thanks, amom. That makes sense to me.

lw

Anyone else ever wonder if there might be sentient life that would need a microscope to study our universe?

lw

seems possible to me, there is more out there that we don't know than what we do know.

LOL I wonder how far up the "Sentient Scale" we humans really rank?

lw

I appreciate what some here have said about the responsibility of the connection with what is being eaten.  In his Endgame books Derrick Jensen speaks of the ethic of just such responsibility of a being to its landbase.  eat a nut, plant a nut.  the issue of sentience seems to me loaded with an anthrocentric progress narrative in which food items that more closely resemble humans (anything with a face, can it feel hurt) is privileged over other foods.  in this formulation carnivore animals just don't know better.  the puma is ethically inferior to the guanaco, and is the guanaco therefore inferior to the grass?  and what of plants that actively adapt ways to take more food (sun) and space from other plants?  Ants scurry at a threat, cottonwoods issue an annual puff parade of seeds:  i want to live!

It is well known as well that the production of plants for human consumption isn't necessarily pretty: corn, wheat, rice, cassava, all gave their human consumers a larger population, ostensibly a weapon against other human cultures, including the pursuant demonizing of the Other's ways.  Vast areas of the "uncivilized" Amazon are being cleared for beef, corn ethanol, and soybeans,  the latter destined for distant palates nurtured on an ignorance of ethical superiority.  the reality is that they are actually eating the peoples of the Amazon to death.

Right on, gwal. You give much to chew on, so to speak.

Welcome to spr, btw.

lw

I vividly remember one of my first experiences with shrooms back in the early 80's. We went for a walk in the evening as the sacrament was coming on and for the first time in my life I was able to observe the conscious waves of energy emanating from the plant life around me. That experience really reinforced the bond I had always felt with the natural world. The cedar trees which watched over our childhood became friends of mine that I's sit with on visits home. For me, all things green became an integral part of this interconnected web of life we call home.

So, amrad brought up the notion of a "high culture" earlier in the thread and that has led me to do some wondering of my own....

Is an evolution of consciousness possible? (Or maybe an evolution of our perception of consciousness?) History has many examples of individuals reaching enlightenment, but what about groups of people?

lw

I had the same experience with the same sacrament, watching, communing with the plants until sunrise.

Quote from: "laughingwillow"Is an evolution of consciousness possible? (Or maybe an evolution of our perception of consciousness?) History has many examples of individuals reaching enlightenment, but what about groups of people?

I have mixed feelings about that. On one hand you have the data (presented by the likes of Wilber) that seems to suggest that large-scale structures in consciousness are subject to the same evolutionary pressures that other things are. And you have all the "claims" made by the many spiritual traditions.

On the other hand, all to often such thought seems to lead to large-scale abnegation of personal responsibility when it comes to one's own consciousness. No where it this more apparent than in the whole 2012 thing, where some people have substituted a calendar date for a Messiah and just expect consciousness to "evolve" through external forces unrelated to themselves. Seems really silly to me.

My guess is that there are cultural and societal evolutions taking place, but it's way to early to know if those evolutions would every reach to cover something like "enlightenment."

Well, the last posts bring me to the idea of "levels" of consciousness.

The human perception of color might be a good place to start. Its my understanding that until fairly recent times, colors weren't generally given names for various shades recognized today.  What changed?

Did the human eye rapidly evolve? I highly doubt it.

Did our perception evolve? Sounds more likely to me.

Hank Harris covers this idea in depth in his first book written about his experiences with the grateful dead. It is his claim that folks in the dead scene interact on a few distinctive levels not usually encountered in typical human group settings. (Undoubtedly fueled by active active sacrament.)

Considering all the possible levels of consciousness, it looks like there are mysteries that can be unlocked by the individual through practices including but not limited to ingestion of an active sacrament. Anyway, if an individual is allowed (induced?) to examine his/her own consciousness while under the influence of an active sacrament in a group setting, isn't it possible that the collective community could also undergo further transformation while facilitating individual growth in a psychedelic state?

The dead scene reminds me of a alembic used by an alchemist to turn lead into gold. But in this case, the alchemist allows ordinary individuals to enter the alembic and gives them the opportunity to (and facilitates the process of) converting base human drives and emotions further in the direction of "we" as opposed to "me." A heart of gold derived from lead, if you will.

I imagine some of the aya traditions in the Amazon to be similar.

lw

I think you mean Hank Harrison. I was pretty underwhelmed at his views of the scene, though the acetate that came with his first book of Neal Cassady at the Straight Theater changed my life. "Don't let the cyclops steal the unicorn brew"  "The son of man is ascending the podium. I know I should have worn more paisley. I just got 30 years on ya" (to the hecklers).

Hank, Phil's old friend, fell out with the Dead family, something to do with letting someone else take a fall for him if I remember right.

Yeah, Hank Harrison......

I know he wasn't well liked in the dead scene. And I know the one person I met who had dealings with him didn't like him either.

I also believe that its possible for communities partaking of an active sacrament together and on a regular basis to discover/develop/ novel means of communication within the group.

lw

I agree totally. I really never had a group like that since I first started trippin (67-69) but even then it was hard to find people in the same place as you,

In the 60s, a larger crossection where taking acid different people had way different trips. Lot of the heads at my school were just bad kids, would have been delinquents anyway. AS was a trip to fun house and an area for ego domination games. Lots of mind fuck pranks, guys fleeing the bad conditions in the Haight would hang out in our scenes, and prey on our trusting minds, our refrigerators, our stash and our girls.

I was having way different trips than these people, reading Zen, the Beats, Watts, Leary, Ginsburg, Gaskin, Hindu scriptures, science fiction just had me primed for some heavy duty experiences. I ended up tripping a lone a lot, listening to music and reading stuff like Paul Reps Zen Flesh Zen Bones. Obscure hindu tomes on 100 ways to meditate, Leary's tripping handbooks, and was having powerful spiritual experiences hiding in my bedroom.

Occasionaly tripping with my tight group of mostly musician friends we would experience frank telepathy and group mind spaces. I remember clear as a bell telepathy with my friend several rooms away. When we would take acid and play it was all amplfied, music is a psychedelic in it's true meaning, and we were trying to tune into each other and had some amazing things happen.

These experiences and ones I've had at Dead shows keeps reminding that the spiritual part of this life is always there, sometimes we can see it others not. And I know and know of so many people that have the same experince I know it was not just my hallucination.

Bless Albert Hoffman- his compound shaped me so much!

Quote from: "laughingwillow"The human perception of color might be a good place to start. Its my understanding that until fairly recent times, colors weren't generally given names for various shades recognized today. What changed?

Did the human eye rapidly evolve? I highly doubt it.

Did our perception evolve? Sounds more likely to me.

Many languages don't make a distinction between blue and green; they are seen as different shades of the same color, as opposed to distinct colors.

Our categories shape our perceptions, and our perceptions shape our categories. And these things do change over time.

QuoteConsidering all the possible levels of consciousness, it looks like there are mysteries that can be unlocked by the individual through practices including but not limited to ingestion of an active sacrament. Anyway, if an individual is allowed (induced?) to examine his/her own consciousness while under the influence of an active sacrament in a group setting, isn't it possible that the collective community could also undergo further transformation while facilitating individual growth in a psychedelic state?

I don't know. It seems pretty clear that there are different stages of cultural development, and these stages tend to be ordered in time in fairly consistent ways. But I don't really know enough about psychology and metaphysics to have an opinion on the possibility of group-change. But it seems to me that the truth -- whatever it may be -- lies in the middle of the extremes. Aficionados of psychedelics seem to overstate their utility, whereas the opponents dismiss any value at all along these lines.

amom: Thanks for turning me on to Wilber. I've found some interesting views, including the states of pathology highlighted below. This seems to fit in with my theory that the average human could very well use a bit of assistance while spiritually unfolding due to the nature of all things ego related.  

quote from the link below: STATES OF PATHOLOGY
........................ Stage five people are breaking out of stuckness by jumping off the cliff edge of stage five into the bottomless abyss of Buddhist meditative states. But the problem with this is that you cannot be stageless. These people are just carrying the fifth stage with them into Buddhist meditation.............. Applying this to our cliff jumpers we see that one of the ordinary inner states for their fifth stage is a feeling of not-belonging. This means, for example, we may not belong with either democrats or republicans because both are right and both are wrong. Or we may not belong with either theists or atheists because both are right and both are wrong.................  One such explanation is French existentialism which tells us we are "alienated." Another such explanation is, of course, the theories of Fowler who tells us its hard to truly belong to one thing when we believe the truth of its opposite. When fifth stage people "jump off the cliff" and start practicing Buddhist meditation they may suddenly find themselves experiencing a state of "oneness with everything" and yet they continue to carry the (LL) baggage of the fifth stage. If that baggage happens to be dominated by feelings of alienation in a particular individual, then that becomes the interpretive paradigm for the experience of oneness. "Wow, in meditation I feel oneness with all as opposed to my usual oneness with nothing in the mundane world!" The success of the meditation thus has the effect of reinforcing the mistakes of the underlying paradigm, resulting in a vicious circle of non-growth. Wilber sees this condition as another form of spiritual pathology.

We can perhaps better illustrate this spiritual pathology with some clearer examples. Let's modulate back a couple of stages and revisit our Catholic contemplative prayer retreat. Among the attendees, there will inevitably be one member of the hosting parish who signs up for the weekend retreat fully expecting to experience a personal visitation from the Virgin Mary. We'll say this person is a middle aged female who is obviously still straddling the second and third stages of faith even at her mature age. Predictably, midway through the second session she enters a deep state of bliss which she interprets as the immediate presence of the Blessed Virgin who has come personally to inspire and bless her (it's all about me). The power of this experience now has the effect of reinforcing the lowest of the two stages she straddles (stage two: Mythic/Literal). Thus by practicing this Catholic form of meditation she locks herself into a vicious circle of paradigm reinforcement which obstructs her spiritual growth. Spiritually, she would have been better off drinking with her friends that weekend than praying!

Wilber often talks about a very common form of this meditative pathology that he calls "boomeritis." This particular pathology occurs when a person is in Wilber's "green" stage cognitively speaking, but has moral and emotional baggage left over from an earlier narcissistic stage. So let's use for an example a 45 year old divorced man. For a while he attended the Methodist Church because of his wife, but dropped out after the divorce. Personally, he strongly believes in global pluralism, hires ethnic minorities in his business, recycles trash to help save the planet, and believes that no religion is an exclusive path to salvation. He has lost the social stability of marriage and feels spiritually empty after trying to meet women in bars. So he joins a Buddhist meditation group for two different sets of reasons that are linked to his two (split) stages of consciousness. First of all, his pluralism directs him to a religion that emphasizes universal consciousness. Secondly, he chooses Buddhism specifically because TV shows make it look sexy (self-mastery plus martial arts equals superhero). Thirdly, a meditation group will be a great place to pick up women without looking like a lecherous bar-hopper. It is pure narcissism behind these last two motives for meditation. So let's say our friend attends the group regularly, experiences some bliss, and meets a new trophy girlfriend. Obviously, the meditation serves to powerfully reinforce the lower narcissistic stage. "I am a cool hero of self-mastery and a babe magnet." In Wilber's view, this is the ultimate in meditation-based spiritual pathology.

Conclusion
If we could distill this whole discussion into a single principle it would be: The value of states increases in direct proportion to advancement through the stages. A lot of American Buddhism has the cart before the horse—it is seeking the instant gratification of states instead of the long-term investment of stages. It has often consisted of little more than the idea that meditation leads to mystical experiences that will result in "enlightenment." But mystical states can be just another yuppie achievement in this context. Transpersonal states of mind are to be thought of as neither an achievement nor an attainment. They are a tool that, when combined with right thinking, will help us dump achievement, dump attainment, and dump ego. The idea that "meditation causes enlightenment" is a classic example of prerational magical thinking. While Wilber promotes Buddhism, seemingly because of its advantage of having a more straightforward spiritual language than other religious options, he also clearly argues that the mystical states of mind often popularly associated with Buddhism have little value unless they occur in an advanced stage of faith and that is something that can occur within (or without) any religion. His message to us is simple: "Grow up!" meaning grow though the stages of faith. That's where our spirituality should be focused—right thinking; right interpretation; right paradigm. If "enlightenment" itself has any meaning, then we saw it in the seventh stage: the right paradigm combined with the right [sustainable] state of mind.

http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php ... erspective (http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ken_Wilber_on_Spiritual_Growth:_A_Christian_Perspective)

Quote from: "laughingwillow""I am a cool hero of self-mastery and a babe magnet."

Yes, but deep down, isn't that really what we all want? I mean, who wouldn't trade "enlightenment" for that?  

:D

QuoteIt has often consisted of little more than the idea that meditation leads to mystical experiences that will result in "enlightenment." But mystical states can be just another yuppie achievement in this context.

Yea, that's actually something that I've had to really work with, too. In my own meditation practice I have a tendency to view the state/experience as the end goal, and that's really kind of wrong-headed. The situation is actually probably exacerbated by my, er, "familiarity" with entheogens. Let's face it: with the entheogens you kind of have a faucet with states on demand, so it's hard not to see things in those terms.

I've been an on-and-off meditator for years, but it wasn't until I took up a pretty formal, daily practice that I really had to start dealing with these issues.

But I'm also actually on a bit of an entheogen hiatus at this point. I figure I've had access to pretty exhaled/transpersonal states for quite a while now through them, but to what end? How has it improved my life, made me better? I can't really answer those questions -- either positively of negatively -- but it has made me want to step back a little, take stock in things.  

QuoteHis message to us is simple: "Grow up!" meaning grow though the stages of faith. That's where our spirituality should be focused—right thinking; right interpretation; right paradigm.

That's pretty much straight out of Buddhism: right view; right action; right effort (the three groups from the eightfold path).

In a weird bit of synchronisity(been tons of it lately) I just got a Facebook friends suggestion for Hank Harrison, and he lives here in Sacra.

Synchronisity is a highway sign on the path it always seems to me.......

LOL

yeah - i love when intersections let us know that the compass is still operating

Nice one Laughingwillow. Thanks for sharing it.

I have in my years had many talks with my philosophy teacher at uni about the use of psychedelics and religious experiences.
And to me it has always seemed clear, intellectually, that an experience of a religious nature, even though it happens on mushroom, must be drawn "down" and inspire everyday life. And everyday life must be used to heighten the awareness of the religious realms. But of course, this was, I later understood, easier said than done. And I now finally understand the warnings my philosophy professor gave me in using these. Not that they were bad, but I can have subtle ego attachments I do not realize that makes me cling to, or misinterpret, a lot of what the experience actually has to teach me. So in all my years of tripping and on and off meditating, I become more and more into everyday life as a meditation, and trying not to fool myself that I am close to "englightenment", but just a humorous man in a humorous situation called life. And thats still something. :D

Right on Satori.

Before enlightenment- chop wood and carry water
After enlightenment-- chop wood and carry water

"if you're really hip the passing years will show"


I think the proof is in the pudding, how do you live? How do you treat the people around you?

It's really hard for me to know what part psychedelics have had in shaping who I am, I didn't live that long without em, heavy 60s style trips every week when I was a young 15.....  
I suspect that they had a lot to do with it, for better and worse. I think we move slow on the path. Most of us had heavy trips that seemed to really change us in big way, but how soon we slip back into our old "game". I think repeated exposure with a sincere desire for growth can transform.

Quote from: "JRL"It's really hard for me to know what part psychedelics have had in shaping who I am, I didn't live that long without em, heavy 60s style trips every week when I was a young 15.....  
I suspect that they had a lot to do with it, for better and worse. I think we move slow on the path. Most of us had heavy trips that seemed to really change us in big way, but how soon we slip back into our old "game". I think repeated exposure with a sincere desire for growth can transform.

This is where discussing the RITUAL use of active sacraments becomes really interesting for me.....

On one level, I've come to view the active sacrament as a viewing glass with the power of magnification. The process of dosing at a show becomes an activity with the primary purpose of gaining personal insight. A test, if you will. It is my responsibility to take the insights gleaned in the psychedelic state and put them into practice in my daily life. Subsequent ritual encounters help gauge personal progress.

lw

Interesting that the tribal cultures that use active sacraments all have involved rituals involving their use.
I think my outcome would have been better if I had been operating in a ritual context, instead of random tripping whenever I could.
In time I developed my own rituals, like asking for guidance and wearing a certain shirt that had belonged to my father, and using the time between ingesting and tripping to clean up my environment(good symbolism I think).

Quote from: "JRL"Right on Satori.

Before enlightenment- chop wood and carry water
After enlightenment-- chop wood and carry water

While I agree with what you're saying, you have to be really careful with this, lest it be a justification for stagnation, or at least inaction.

Along these lines, Lama Surya Das, a western teacher of dzogchen, cautions his students about a misinterpretation of the dzogchen teaching that "we're already enlightened, and there is nothing to do." Yes, he says, that may be true, but you have to be careful not to say it too soon. It's premature for (almost all of) us to say that there is nothing to do. From this side of whatever-it-is, it's an excuse. From the other side it is a statement of fact.  

So yes, after "enlightenment" you still chop wood and carry water, but that doesn't mean the experience or the meaning is the same as it previous was.

Lots of good stuff here.

Speaking about the possible evolution of consciousness on a group level. I'd say it's got to be possible for a group if you consider it possible for an individual - after all, what more is a group than a bunch of individuals? (OK, that's a little like saying: what more is an ant nest than a bunch of ants? As in: qualities tend to emerge when we organise together that are beyond the individual and exist only at the level of the group... then again we're all part of at least one "group" whether we like it or not. Blabover&out.)

But yeah, speaking personally, I'd think of it less as an "evolution of consciousness" and more as an "increase in consciousness". It's a long and winding road but I do feel that I am slowly making progress bringing more consciousness into my life, shining light into those shady areas that previously affected my behaviour without my knowledge, slowly getting more of a grip on my 'reactivity' and whatnot, becoming more comfortable with accepting the existence of those parts of me that I don't particularly enjoy (which at least gives them less of a chance to mess with my melon man). I think of this as becoming more conscious, and that in turn driving a kind of evolution of my person towards someone who is more at peace with themselves and more loving towards others - but not in the way that I would've been in that first naive initial rush of love & reckless trust, a love that's truer than that, a love that has the potential to be "ruthless" for want of a better word... not something that's going to leave me open to getting messed with left right & centre in this crazy world.

So I'd say consciousness, and more and more consciousness/higher levels of it, could be what we're evolving towards. And I'd also say that in some mysteriously mystical but still kinda practical way consciousness is actually required for anything to exist, and so everything has some degree of it (like Amom summarised earlier). So nothing exists that is totally without some kinda sentience I reckon.

The things which tend to be best at forcing me to become more conscious in my personal life are actually the more difficult events: arguments with loved ones, deaths, dangerous or idiotic impulses being followed, embarrassments being suffered etc... Yet these are also things that could force me to retreat and become less conscious, it's only because I know that that's a dead end that I generally find the strength to take a good hard look at them/me.

So I actually agree to some degree with some of the newage thinking about these wars and natural and un-natural dissasters and things being opportunities for some kind of growth (I don't really know about things moving towards a climax in 2012, or that these things might be happening as part of some kind of design, but I do know they present us with an opportunity - this chimes with my own experience).

So I see that as a people we are continually being given opportunities to become more conscious by looking at the shit that happens (OK, so stuff like wars and radiation-poisoning are more 'controllable' than earthquakes and tsunamis, but we can learn from and make changes according to all these things)... and I'm tempted to agree that time feels a little short for us to grow up, and that the pressure on us to become more conscious is only getting greater, and if we can't do that we'll be dealt with by the same natural laws as all life is subject to (whatever they might be!-) ...

So yeah, I can see that eventually we are going to have to learn from our mistakes, and learn from those things we can do nothing about, and maybe start making more informed, more conscious, choices about how to live in this world.

I think things like the psychedelic movement, the environmental movement, the anti-war movement, feminism, etc... are all part of this general trend of the human race as a whole towards becoming more conscious... they might not be perfect things but they're all steps in the right direction.

Much love family,x