http://gawker.com/5506871/the-illustrat ... dictionary (http://gawker.com/5506871/the-illustrated-tea-party-dictionary)
This is pretty funny stuff. Enjoy! :twisted:
I wouldn't mind tea bagging a few of those people
I am not on board with this at all. Since when did you seekers become so....partisan? Aren't we all Americans? Most, and I am saying 99%, of the Tea Party participants are just John and Jane Doe from flyover country, and yet those of you who perceive yourself as fighting for social justice are stereotyping them as racist ignorant rednecks. If you guys think this is so funny, and are really OK with this, then I am really sad for you.
Do you really trust the government to do anything in your best interest, Obama or not? Just you wait and see, this 'dream' will turn into a nightmare.
LOL I'm all for a viable third party candidate, diss. These guys are radical republicans, for the most part, spouting false claims with no focus other than a hatred of Obama. Where were these guys when BushCo was driving our economy into the ground? Oh, I forgot... He's white......
What has the gubmit done for me? I like the roads and other infrastructure paid for by my tax dollars. I believe in paying our fair share of taxes.
The tea baggers are morons sponsored by faux news.
ps: YOu made a political statement just by posting your views in this thread. It just happens to be different from the OP.
lw
I forgot to add: Fuck Bush, and fuck Obama too.
Well, diss.....
I'm guessing most tea baggers disagree with your stance on "fuck bush."
And I'm willing to venture that most tea baggers are happy to pay taxes for military expenditures, as well.
Imo, the tea baggers are a product of the right wing republican establishment in conjunction with faux news. I think they are a joke.
I'll take Obama over the head tea bagger any day. (Palin?)
lw
I'm with lw on this one. The baggers are almost funny(if they weren't so well armed). It's gonna get bloody just wait.
When we bitch about the regime it was treason, when they do it's patriotism. Tax "revolt" has ruined California, it is pretty much a failed nation now, thanks to Prop 13 back in the day that capped property tax.
And I know they cherry picked for the pictures, but the level of discourse is still way down the IQ scale. I know too many of these people personally, scares the fuck out me.
"the level of discourse is still way down the IQ scale."
Typical of the average American these days. There is a reason that these folks are called 'The silent majority', and when they wake up, that is generally an indicator that things are going off track in a very bad way. When you harass cattle, sometimes they stampede.
I never thought I would see the day when most of the people that I know here (at SPF) are siding with the administration. Some of you guys are spouting the Democrat party line word-for-word. It is really creeping me out.
Quote from: "dissident""the level of discourse is still way down the IQ scale."
Typical of the average American these days. There is a reason that these folks are called 'The silent majority', and when they wake up, that is generally an indicator that things are going off track in a very bad way. When you harass cattle, sometimes they stampede.
I never thought I would see the day when most of the people that I know here (at SPF) are siding with the administration. Some of you guys are spouting the Democrat party line word-for-word. It is really creeping me out.
Irie Dissident,
I'm with you.
Not sure if or when these guy's will take the blinkers off???
Respect
Z
"What has the gubmit done for me? I like the roads and other infrastructure paid for by my tax dollars. I believe in paying our fair share of taxes. "
I personally do not enjoy paying damn near half my income in aggregate taxes to: be led around by the nose by the Fed as they use highway funds as a tool to coerce the individual states in various ways. I do not think it is appropriate for an ambulance service to charge 500$ for a simple ride to the hospital. Do not get me started on the police and the money they make from asset forfeiture. Yet you are just fine with paying your fair share? C'mon LW, you are a real smart cookie, I bet you can come up with dozens more examples of ripoff bullshit perpetrated by 'the gubmit' (what the fuck does 'gubmit' mean anyway?)
-----------------------------------
"When we bitch about the regime it was treason, when they do it's patriotism. Tax "revolt" has ruined California, it is pretty much a failed nation now, thanks to Prop 13 back in the day that capped property tax. "
So, JRL, simply capping property taxes totally crippled California's economy? Wow, what a fragile state that place must be. It is almost Darwinian. (Or maybe there is an 800lb gorilla that shall remain nameless...)
------------------------------------
"I'm with lw on this one. The baggers are almost funny(if they weren't so well armed). It's gonna get bloody just wait"
Yeah it sure is. Revolution. I hope you are not going to side with the government, as I will not be on their side, for damn sure. If the situation was different, this administration would not help you, I fear. Even this healthcare thing will turn sour, mark my words.
Diss, yes capping property taxes has really done a lot to wreck this once great state. Not just my opinion for sure .And now the infrastructure has so deteriorated that we will never catch up. It used to be almost free to go to state colleges here and the UC cost like a few hundred a year. Now it keeps getting raised every year, rivals private colleges.
The Jarvis Gann initiative was mostly about rich old people not wanting to educate a new generation. Or not wanting to pay even a small share. And it really did sow the seeds of the current crisis. This deal really hits home at my house, my wife has lost 3 days of work a month. a 17% pay cut, but she is expected to do even more work than she did before. So whose taxes are increased?
It doesn't seem fair for families like mine to take the brunt of this spiraling downturn. And to people that slag civil servants? Next time you need police, or fire help, retirement counseling(my wife works for CalPers, the state retirement system) help for mentally ill homeless people(Reagan was responsible for turning out thousands of mentally ill people on to the streets of California) call a tea bagger, because all the people who can help are furloughed and trying to figure out how not to lose their homes.
So what has happened in my hometown is that the state pay cuts make it impossibly for us to recover. Can't tell you how many students I have lost cause of the cuts here in this state capitol. Another thing is that the levees that keep this town from turning into post Katrina Nawlins are on the verge of failing. Sacramento is second on the national list of flood endangered cities.
Interesting, JRL.
I also work for "da man," teaching english to immigrants. Many of my colleagues have lost their jobs. The rest of us just found out we will not be teaching this summer due to educational budget cuts. However, I just learned that I may be the only one who has managed to procure a funding source to teach this summer. (With no help from my boss.) I do my job well and the folks running the library see that on a daily basis. They don't want to lose me and I really appreciate their efforts and the fact that they have recognized the value of the service I'm providing and the manner its administered.
Anyway, the other teachers have classes of 12 hours each for five days. Due to library cuts where my class is held, we lost our Friday class when the library decided to close that day to alleviate the budget problem. However, I really need that extra 2-1/2 hours per week to get the job done properly, imo. The answer is that I now take no break during our classes. The students can get up if they need to, but the class as a whole, pushes on. It really wears me out to be "on" for 2-1/2 hours straight, but I see no alternative if I want to do justice to the material and meet the needs of the students. So who pays? I do. Why? Because I care and want to leave this place a little better than I found it.
lw
Off the subject here, but what really pisses me off is:
"we will not be teaching this summer due to educational budget cuts."
But I am sure that our elected officials will not have any of their salaries cut, and will not give up any of their perks and benefits.
Sad state of affairs if they lose a guy like you that actually cares about his job. TJ is like that too, but in 18 months she pulls the plug and will retire into being a full time artist.
I should mention that Jarvis Gann capped property taxes at an early 70s level, back when this state waas knee deep in a flow of money.
Summer time has come and gone my oh my.
From my friend the genius songwriter Dave Lippman
Mom and Dad bought and sold four family homes
Raised four boys and then one day
Daddy went back to school
To become a doctor
of philosophy
I think I might follow in my father's footsteps
Except I forgot to have those kids
and homes
and jobs
I had a job once, but I had to let them go
I had to downsize my expectations
What do you expect from a downhill nation?
Maybe I'm not supposed to notice, my job just took a plane
Maybe I'm not supposed to know this economy may not
be comin back this way again
But just like Pittsburgh lost its steel
And Detroit lost it to better wheels
I'm up here, workin on Hamburger Hill
Don't you know I tried, don't you know they lied
Don't you ever wonder why it sometimes seems
All your childhood dreams
Get ground up in the round up of the evening news
Here I am again, down at the welfare
Here I am again, searchin for relief
Here I am again, lookin for my health care
Is this a great country or where's the beef?
I would've bought American, if I could've bought at all
But as falls General Motors, so the country falls
And now I see it falls on you and me
Guess I'll go plant zucchini
That's the only green I'm gonna see
Well I don't know, but I've been told
The streets of the future are lined with information
Every time the program changes, the system crashes down on me
I'd like to reprogram that goddamn corporation
Cause I'm up here workin on Hamburger Hill
Don't you know I tried...
Bottom's fallin out of the middle class
Unemployed wanta kick some ass
Whenever the economy fails
They build a dozen new jails
I'm in the jailhouse now
These days I guess you build your own cell
Then you throw away your own key
They say we gotta learn computers
I wonder will that help stop the looters
Who stole the American Dream
Maybe I'm not supposed to notice...
Don't you know I tried...
He wrote this in the early 90s, pretty prophetic don't you think?
Obama's health care victory:
'written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it, passed by a congress that hasn't read it but exempts themselves from it, to be signed by a president who also hasn't read it and who smokes, with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes, to be overseen by a surgeon general who is obese, and financed by a country that's broke.' (author unknown)
truer words I have not heard in a long while.
Medicare for all or medicare for none..
lw
To: Doctors.
It's our way, or the highway.
From: The Federal Government.
QuoteTo: Doctors.
It's our way, or the highway.
From: The Federal Government.
Irie,
So when did getting western medical aide become an unalienable god given right?
I say if I don't want your meds, cos they're poison, and you tell me I have too....Where's the freedom of choice?
God created the plants around us to nourish and heal us.
God did not however create the Big Pharma and try shove it down our throats.
It's going to end up with medicare for none in the end anyway. Cos It's a Scam!
Respect
Z
Well now, Zaka not sure what your point is now, but as a person whose family members are alive only because
of the most advanced allopathy I guess my view is different than yours. Tell me what you will do for say acute heart failure or mesothelioma?? Shouldn't the treatment of choice be available for these people?
Is there an herb for paranoia?
Irie,
Yeah it's all about choice & the freedom to use what works for you.
I'm not saying that western meds has no value....
But sticking $9,000 pa fine on folks who don't want to have medicare is a real issue.
No one is saying that if you want to use phamas gear...rather than farmers gear...that you should be fined for it!
The best herb for you would have been MJ....but the Govt, at the behest of Phama, has screwed that up, so now instead of doing it's job, your now looking over your shoulder! Try some Mulungu tea....always chills me out. (JRL drop me a PM & I'll send you some.)
Respect
Z
Quote from: "Zaka"God created the plants around us to nourish and heal us.
God did not however create the Big Pharma and try shove it down our throats.
I though God created everything.
Quotebut the Govt, at the behest of Phama, has screwed that up
I thought the government outlawed MJ well before "big pharma" even existed.
Tell the truth: I bet you're argued, with just as much emphasis and conviction, that MJ was screwed up by "big Paper" before, haven't you?
LOL I just read the part where diss calls the tea baggers the "silent majority." We live in "fly over country" and trust me, the tea baggers are getting plenty of press but none of the people I associate with have bought into this crap that faux news created. Around these parts, its the right wing radicals who support the tea baggers and corporate media giving them air time. Where were these guys when Bush was running the country into the ground?
Btw, diss: Do you really believe that supporting ANY political political movement is non-partisan? Wake up or dream on, haters.
lw
After studying the tea baggers a bit, it looks to me like the one, unifying idea most people in the movement could rally around would be fiscal conservatism. It also appears most would be content nominating Ronny Raygun as their poster boy. However, that brand of conservatism just doesn't fly with me.
Any average Joe off the street who actually believes that trickle down economics championed by Reagan is good for the country doesn't know much about economic theory, imo. The damage created by the implementation of Reagan's trickle down (voodo) economics is being felt today. Yearning for the good old days of Ronny Raygun is like longing for another pistol shot to the guts.
As a registered independent voter with strong libertarian leanings, I long for the day when conservatism truly means getting the gubmit out of our lives and pocketbooks as much as possible. However, the right wing conservative movement today is all about funding the war on drugs, increasing funding for the industrial/military machine, gutting social programs and ignoring infra-structural needs while allowing corporate entities to siphon off huge quantities of our net worth through trickle down economic practices.
And this is why I don't support the tea baggers. Where where they (you?) when BushCo was running this country into the ground? Their (your? )anger is misplaced. Change for the sake of change? Not when "conservatism" is practiced as I've detailed above.
lw
Irie,
Wasn't Bush president in 2007???
//http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKZmIzEMUN8
//http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=pBR32X8vUy8&feature=related
//http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=c0h69EazA0M&feature=related
//http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=juTE_W9-ZKI&feature=related
Gary Null sums it up well
//http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-gary-null-show-wnye/2010/4/8/the-gary-null-show-040710.html
Respect
Z
'Btw, diss: Do you really believe that supporting ANY political political movement is non-partisan? Wake up or dream on, haters.'
I was not a part of the Tea Party, and am not now a part.... nor did I lend them one iota of support. I am simply pointing out that some of you folks here are acting an awful lot like 'Obama-bots' in denigrating them. Just to throw a bone to you leftists, here, knock yourself out:
http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/ (http://www.crashtheteaparty.org/)
(In spite of what some of you watched on MSNBC, this Tea Party stuff IS the silent majority, in spite of the efforts of various right wingers, RINO's, and FOX news to coopt and control it. It is not too difficult to lead the average American by the nose.)
Ever get the feeling that the Powers That Be have us right where they want us: fighting each other, as usual.
I think I explained pretty well above why I don't support this particular group of right wing nut bags. And I've yet to see you type one iota of information concerning the reasons why I shouldn't consider them wackos. The one thing you have made clear is that you consider the tea party movement a silent majority. I think that is a bunch of bullshit. I'm still not sure why you are shilling for these guys.
Polls in CA show politicians supporting health care reform that are currently up for reelection have on average 17% leads on their "conservative" opponents. Btw, tea bagger supporters are believed to amount to 17% of voters polled. Not exactly a groundswell anywhere but faux news.
lw
Not a silent majority but a loud minority.
lw, I hope you are right about CA. The repug candidates don't think so. They're spending literally millions to paint the other a "liberal" Obama follower.
Oh yeah, you all are right. I am sorry. If CA polls that way, the rest of the US falls right into lockstep. My mistake. I also thought that the silent majority consisted of the conservative, but not necessarily politically active, common, average people of the US. I must be wrong about that, too.
LW I could care less who you think is a wacko. Conservatives are greedy, repressive pricks, and liberals are elitists and communists. All wackos as far as I am concerned. Just because I hate to see old friends here at SPF fall under the 'us vs them' spell, does not make me a 'Tea partier' or a 'hater'. I would be just as concerned if you guys were all gung ho about the tea parties.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_ ... ty_militia (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100412/ap_on_re_us/us_tea_party_militia)
quote from the linked article....
OKLAHOMA CITY – Frustrated by recent political setbacks, tea party leaders and some conservative members of the Oklahoma Legislature say they would like to create a new volunteer militia to help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty......
.....Tea party leader J.W. Berry of the Tulsa-based OKforTea began soliciting interest in a state militia through his newsletter under the subject "Buy more guns, more bullets."
"It's not a far-right crazy plan or anything like that," Berry said. "This would be done with the full cooperation of the state Legislature."
That is a good thing. The Fed needs to be put in its place, which is far, far in the background.
I'm actually pretty board by politics, so I don't get into too many political discussions (it seems the news media--both alternative and mainstream--has sold the agenda that the only thing important in life is politics, and I think it is wise to reject that agenda).
But:
Quote from: "JRL"Well now, Zaka not sure what your point is now, but as a person whose family members are alive only because of the most advanced allopathy I guess my view is different than yours. Tell me what you will do for say acute heart failure or mesothelioma?? Shouldn't the treatment of choice be available for these people?
I think this point out the fundamental issue and complexity with health care as it is practiced in the US and other modern societies.
That health care has become unsustainable expensive is impossible to deny, regardless of whether ones wants sweeping reform or the
status quo. And people from both sides try to argue why there perspective is better for getting those costs to sustainable levels. Everyone in the political spectrum has their own pet theories about what is driving these costs, about who is to blame.
But everyone, as far as I can tell, is ignoring the big, pink elephant that is standing in the middle of the room, and the elephant is this: the cost of health care is inextricably tied to our cultural attitudes about death.
I've often pondered what I would do if I were diagnosed by something, like cancer, that could be very expensive to treat. I have health insurance (and pretty good health insurance), so if I, say, racked up $1.5 million in health care expenses, I could still undergo the treatment.
But would it be ethical for me to do so, even though I could? That $1.5 million could provide basic health care to a small town for a year. Is my single life worth more than the general well-being of an entire town?
We fear death, and we will go through anything to try to beat it back, even for a brief period of time.
I once got into an argument/discussion with a physician at a diner party, and I made some pretty bold assertions, the main one being that we had long ago reached the point of diminishing return in modern medicine. That we have some fabulous procedures that can really help people with horrible conditions is beyond argument--it can make great differences in individual lives--but when we're speaking about public spending, we're speaking about the public, and what are they--in total--getting from it? Her position was that people were increasingly healthy and living longer, and my point was that most of the gains we had gotten from modern medicine happened a long time ago.
Afterwards I felt kind of guilty, so I spent an evening doing research to make sure that my assertions (which felt true to me), weren't totally off-base ;)
And I was right. I looked at mortality data (average life expectancy) and health-care spending, and we have
so hit a point of diminishing returns.
There were reasonable returns (in terms of life expectancy) from the civil war until the turn of the 20th century, and there were substantial gains in the first 50 years of the 20th century. But then we hit a brick wall.
We continue to increase the average life expectancy by small amounts, but the cost of doing so it rising exponentially. Whereas in the first half of the 20th century we could get a few years for a small incremental increase in cost (say, 10 or 20%), by the beginning of the 21st century the same kind of increase (when it was possible at all) came with 500-900% increases in health care spending. And it has even gotten worse in the first years of the 21st century.
As long as we keep trying to beat back death in all situations, going to more extreme measures, health care costs will continue to rise. And no pet theory or agenda, on the right or left, has even begun to address that. And it's complicated, because it's not some group or industry who is at fault. You can't point a finger at insurance companies or doctors or lawyers and say "it's their fault!" Because this increase comes from the wide cultural attitudes towards life and death. It comes from
us.
But no political group will (or even can) address this, so it's really not worth entering the discussion at all.
Now, I have small children, so in reality I would probably spend that 1.5 million dollars. But at least, hopefully, I would feel a little conflicted about it. To an extent I imagine I would feel guilty about it, feeling that I didn't act in the greatest good.
Like I said, this shit is complicated, and you wont find that subtlety and nuance in any political discussion...
Good points, amom. Everyone wants to go to heaven but nobody wants to die. - Peter Tosh? -
diss: I believe in a small federal government as well. I just don't see the current situation to warrant citizen revolt.
I want a smaller military and less involvement in foreign affairs.
And I'd like everyone to have access to physicians, not just the wealthy, employed and senior citizens.
lw
Quote from: "laughingwillow"I want a smaller military and less involvement in foreign affairs.
There are some things that I'm surprised that the "right" and the "left" don't agree on.
I can see there being disagreement on just what the role of government is, and things like the military and foreign aid (as well as health care) are expensive. I can understand disagreement on what a moral society should do. Is health care a right or a privilege? Should the government become involved in foreign military or humanitarian aid?
I expect these disagreements. But I'm surprised that neither the right nor the left, having decided what
they think is right, spend much time making sure that their priorities are paid for. All anyone seems to do is yell that if everyone
else's priorities were cut then there would be enough money to go around, but that's a pretty hollow argument, and it never happens. The ultimate effect is that what both the "right" and "left" agree on is that the government should spend a whole lot of money and not commit to making sure that it has the money to spend.
Bread and circuses on both sides, it's just the food and entertainment are a bit different...
Sorry if I sound like a bit of a fanatic, but it seems to me that if we committed to actually having the money to pay for the things the government wanted to spend on, then we would be forced to actually enter into intelligent discussion as to just what our priorities should
be. Instead our entire system of government is like our financial system: a big Ponzi scheme.
Want something today? Issue bonds and let the next generation worry about it. And they'll do the same. And so on and so forth, until everything collapses.
Want something else that conflicts with what you just bought? No problem! More bonds! After all, it's the other side that is wrong!
Edit: to elaborate a bit....
A popular program (it's good and liberal, but it was really championed by Bush) is the aid we give Africa to combat AIDs (and Zaka, please don't rail on about how AIDs was created as a purposeful biological warfare agent--it is not germane to the conversation at hand). But what if we had to discuss:
"OK. We have this pile of 30 billion dollars. Should we give it to Africa for humanitarian reasons, or Medicare for the US poor?"
A really, really hard discussion, one which we'll never enter into because we
don't have to.
lw I think everybody wants to go quote was most likely originally penned by the inventor of rock and roll, Mr Willie Dixon. The reggae guys wanted to play American R and B like everyone in the world. Just check out Toot's doin Dreams to Remember.
I found the results of this poll to be interesting.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/15 ... orge-bush/ (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/15/poll-reveals-all-you-need-to-know-about-tea-baggers-57-still-support-george-bush/)
Poll Reveals All You Need to Know about Tea Baggers: 57% Still Support George Bush – And, Yes, Their Rage Is Fueled by Racism, Fox News
Jon Ponder | April 15, 2010
For pundits and pols who have been casting about trying to get a fix on the true nature of tea baggers, a new poll finally offers definitive insight. According to the new CBS/New York Times poll of self-described tea-party supporters, 57 percent have a favorable opinion of George W. Bush.
Furthermore, 63 percent say they restrict their their news consumption to right-wing propaganda from Fox News. This may explain why they are outraged over the Obama administration's efforts to pull the nation back from the brink of economic collapse while apparently having no clue that the person most responsible for the Bush Recession is their own Dear Leader George W. Bush.
It is a tribute to Fox News' mastery at obfuscating reality with disinformation that these Bush fans are seemingly unaware that the U.S. economy crashed and the Bush Recession began in September 2008, when, indisputably, George Bush was president. Having only been exposed to propaganda from Fox and hatemonger radio and bloggers, tea baggers have no way of knowing that the malfeasant anti-regulatory policies of the Bush administration and the GOP-controlled Congress, combined with Republicans' now-famous incompetence at governing, were directly responsible for the economic crisis.
The history of the Bush regime is being rewritten faster on Fox and in the right-wing media than anyone can keep up with, but let's also recall that George Bush left office with 21 percent approval after being well below 50 percent for years. (About 20 percent of Americans also supported Richard Nixon when he resigned in disgrace.) Bush, Cheney et al lied about the pretexts for invading Iraq, which means that the blood of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi families was wasted needlessly, along with billions upon billions of taxpayer dollars that were flushed away at the very moment that the economic collapse was looming. (Let's also not forget that, under Bush, the United States paid for universal health care for 30 million or so Iraqis while 45 million Americans had none.) But it was Bush's ineptitude — and baldfaced lying about it — in addressing the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that finally forced normal Americans to recognize George W. Bush for what he was: Worst. President. Ever. His approval ratings never recovered after that debacle.
It speaks volumes that it's this barely articulate, incurious aristocratic bully that tea baggers voted for — twice — and still support to this day.
Another prime example of the influence of Fox propaganda: A whopping 64 percent of tea baggers believe Pres. Obama has raised taxes on most Americans. As CBS noted in their coverage of this poll result: "[The] vast majority of Americans [95 percent] got a tax cut under the Obama administration."
One unsurprising result from the poll is that tea baggers love Fox News' most popular propagandists. They approve of Sarah Palin by 66 percent and Glenn Beck by 59 percent. This adoration of Beck, in particular, helps explain another aspect of the poll: Like Beck, tea baggers loathe the U.S. president:
Eighty-eight percent disapprove of President Obama's performance on the job, compared to 40 percent of Americans overall. While half of Americans approve of Mr. Obama's job performance, just seven percent of Tea Party supporters say he is doing a good job.
Asked to volunteer what they don't like about Mr. Obama, the top answer, offered by 19 percent of Tea Party supporters, was that they just don't like him. Eleven percent said he is turning the country more toward socialism, ten percent cited his health care reform efforts, and nine percent said he is dishonest.
Seventy-seven percent describe Mr. Obama as "very liberal," compared to 31 percent of Americans overall. Fifty-six percent say the president's policies favor the poor, compared to 27 percent of Americans overall.
The fact that 56 percent of tea baggers say Pres. Obama's policies favor the poor is telling. While only about 13 percent of Americans are black, a great many white people labor under the misperception that most poor people are black. More about tea baggers' views on race below.
Ninety-two percent of Tea Party supporters believe President Obama's policies are moving the country toward socialism. Fifty-two percent of Americans overall share that belief.
Asked what socialism means, roughly half of Tea Party supporters volunteered government ownership or control, far more than any other answer. Eleven percent cited taking away rights or limiting freedom, and eight percent said it means the redistribution of wealth.
Thirty percent of Tea Party supporters believe Mr. Obama was born in another country, despite ample evidence to the contrary. Another 29 percent say they don't know. Twenty percent of Americans overall, one in five, believe the president was not born in the United States.
Not surprisingly, the poll found that tea baggers deep-seated racist views:
Fifty-two percent believe too much has been made of the problems facing black people. Far fewer Americans overall — 28 percent — believe as much. Among non-Tea Party whites, the percentage who say too much attention has been paid to the problems of black people is 23 percent.
A majority of Tea Party suppers believe the Obama administration treats both blacks and whites the same way. But one in four believe the administration favors blacks over whites, an opinion shared by just 11 percent of Americans overall and seven percent of non-Tea Party whites.
As to demographics, no surprise here. The poll that most tea baggers are middle-aged, white and Southern:
Eighteen percent of Americans identify as Tea Party supporters. The vast majority of them — 89 percent — are white. Just one percent is black.
They tend to skew older: Three in four are 45 years old or older, including 29 percent who are 65 plus. They are also more likely to be men (59 percent) than women (41 percent).
More than one in three (36 percent) hails from the South, far more than any other region. Twenty-five percent come from the West, 22 percent from the Midwest, and 18 percent from the northeast.
A lot of headlines about this poll focus on the surprising result that self-identified tea baggers claim to be wealthier and more educated than would otherwise be expected from people who are so easily manipulated and duped into believing facts that are easily disproved.
There are no national figures better known for their difficult relationships with the truth than Bush, Palin and Beck, so one plausible explanation for this apparent outlier about tea baggers' income and education levels:
They lied.
Quote from: "dissident"LW I could care less who you think is a wacko.
What was that about Waco? Oh, never mind.
Most of the tea baggers around here didn't like Bush either.
As far as feeling the effects of Reagan fiscal policy, I can't image how anyone could be feeling anything older than Obama/Bush spending, with maybe a little of Clinton's bond sales to the Chinese still lingering.
And really, isn't that what the last two administrations are really doing? Expanding on the administration of the previous two? Who expanded on the work of the .... Honestly, I was surprised when I searched this board for the word republicrat, and nothing came up.
lw, I want to go to heaven! Just, er, not right now. Maybe I listen to too much country music these days. (Kenny Chesney)
Quote from: "Amomynous"We have this pile of 30 billion dollars.
Yes, Amom, I am taking your quote out of context. I agree with the theme of fiscal responsibility. I'd like to point out that there is yet another aspect to consider. It is far, far easier to spend money that you didn't earn, than it is to spend money that you did earn.
Credit cards carry such a risk in part because they represent money that hasn't been earned yet. And let's face it, a politician's greatest skill, perhaps their ONLY skill, is the ability to get re-elected. If they had the skill to make their own money, many of them wouldn't have landed in politics in the first place.
-G-
Statistics say most tea baggers are republican. I really doubt the majority opposed BushCo during his term.
No, I'm not a democrat.
lw
A tea bagger favorite in Florida just got trounced. Interestingly, he was running as a republican. As far as I can tell, all candidates favored by the tea baggers are republican. And I'm guessing the majority favor the trickle down economic policy championed by Reagan and continued by the republican administrations since.
Change? I'm all for a housecleaning of the U$ gubmit. But the tea baggers are a right wing joke, imo. And you are fooling yourself if you don't think the tea bag movement is a product of the far right.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/15 ... -election/ (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/15/fl-19-dem-trounces-tea-bagger-favorite-in-special-house-election/)
quote from article linked: Democrats are two for two in special elections to the House. After flipping New York 23 from Republican to Dem last November, they held Florida 19 in a special election on Tuesday, despite tea bagger predictions that the Republican they favored would win the race, thus "sending a shot across the bow" that voter antipathy to health-care reform was going to lead to upsets in House races this fall.
Ted Deutch handily beat his Republican opponent Ed Lynch, 62 percent to 35 percent, retaining the seat held by Democratic Rep. Robert Wexler, who retired to join a think tank.
The district is home to many seniors, and Lynch vigorously campaigned against health care reform law, hoping to make the election a referendum on it, which he claimed was unpopular in the district.
Quote from: "laughingwillow"But the tea baggers are a right wing joke, imo. And you are fooling yourself if you don't think the tea bag movement is a product of the far right.
I suppose it depends on how you define right and left. I'm working with the idea that right = conservative = Favoring "traditional views and values; tending to oppose change"
Now I suppose if you consider what has become common place in the last few decades to be "traditional", then you're a liberal if you want to change it.
But if you consider a literal interpretation of the US Constitution, the Magna Carta, etc to be traditional, then you're a conservative if you want to change it.
Since I subscribe to the latter, I would consider myself a conservative, and thus a member of the far right. I agree that the the who Tea Party movement is a product of the far right. I just don't see where it has anything to do with republicans, as the republican party seems a bit left of center.
Granted there are a lot of ex-republicans in the movement, largely disgusted with 8 years of Bush. Most of them that I know didn't vote for McCain, because seriously, why would a conservative vote for McCain?
Maybe things are different where you are.
-G-
I'm forced to make the distinction between what I call the "true" right, which is comprised of folks who just want the gubmit out of our lives, (These folks would be what I call libertarians and I respect that movement) and the current version of "far" right, comprised of folks wishing to legislate morality (religious right) as well as increase the size of gubmit through military spending.
I fail to see Bush as a libertarian, but the majority of tea baggers nationwide still profess support for BushCo policy. And I don't want any part of a movement built by Bush, nurtured by Palin and vetted by faux news.
Trust me, when a true libertarian movement comes along, I'll be the first to join in as a registered independent voter who considers myself fiscally conservative and socially compassionate.
lw
quote from the national tea baggers poll linked above: For pundits and pols who have been casting about trying to get a fix on the true nature of tea baggers, a new poll finally offers definitive insight. According to the new CBS/New York Times poll of self-described tea-party supporters, 57 percent have a favorable opinion of George W. Bush.
Where I come from, that is a majority.
BushCo's failed stint as president was a direct result of corporate deregulation and trickle down economics, first implemented by Reagan after elected in 1980. I find it interesting how republicans have the reputation for fiscal responsibility, yet Clinton, a democrat with reputation of being big spender balanced the budget and brought in a surplus.
As far as I can tell, the tea baggers are being led by those supporting failed Bush policy and I don't want any part of a movement with those folks in the majority, nationally.
Which begs the question of just how things could be so different where you live, Glider?
lw
I still don't see a lot of difference between republicans and democrats. Republicans want to drill for oil in national parks. Democrats opened up national parks to mining operations. Arlen Specter can't even remember which one he is anymore.
Are things really different here from there? I really haven't read the polls. I get the impression you don't associate with anyone in the tea party movement. Perhaps it is more a difference in perceptions?
And what is wrong with Palin anyway? Other than she stooped so low as to run with McCain?
;)
-G-
The article linked really sums up how I feel about the current "revolt.
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/ ... -u-s-gover (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/jeff-poor/2010/04/18/time-s-klein-beck-palin-potentially-committing-sedition-against-u-s-gover)
quote: "I did a little bit of research just before this show - it's on this little napkin here. I looked up the definition of sedition which is conduct or language inciting rebellion against the authority of the state. And a lot of these statements, especially the ones coming from people like Glenn Beck and to a certain extent Sarah Palin, rub right up close to being seditious."
As Klein pointed out, the legal definition of sedition is "a revolt or an incitement to revolt against established authority." And, sedition has been declared a felony in Supreme Court opinions, thus making Klein's national television accusation a fairly serious one, one of which New York magazine's John Heilemann agreed with. However, Heilemann added conservative talker Rush Limbaugh to that list.
"And Joe's right and I'll name another person, I'll name Rush Limbaugh who uses this phrase constantly and talks about the Obama administration as a regime," Heilemann said. "That phrase which has connotations of tyranny. And what's so interesting about it to me, to get to Norah's point - what is the focus, what is the cause of this? You think back to 1994, there was Ruby Ridge. There was Waco. There were triggering incidents. There's been nothing like that. The only thing that's changed in the last 15 months is the election of Barack Obama. And as far as I can see, in terms of the policies that Obama has implemented, there's nothing."
Heilemann also suggested that the alleged up tick in militia activity is a result of the Obama presidency. Klein said it was not only the Obama presidency, but that he was "African-American," and had "Hussein" as a middle name, along with the "scary" economic crisis.
"Two are two things going on here and one thing is certainly that," Klein said. "One thing is he is African-American, but that his name is Barack Hussein Obama. The other we've had a very scary economic crisis. And when people get scared, they get defensive and they get a little crazy."
There was an uptick in militia membership during Clinton's years as well. Might have as much to do with the second amendment mentioning the word milita and Clinton's / Obama's records on gun control as anything else.
When I was in high school, Sara was my favorite girl.
Sedition is indeed tied to the concept of over throw of a government.
Anarchy isn't exactly sedition, but an alternative form of government, much in the same fashion as atheism is an alternate form of religion.
Republic is a form of government where the public is actively involved (or intended to be actively involved) in the government.
America is a great nation, with or without problems.
-G-
Glider: None of my friends are in the tea baggers movement that I know of. Around these parts, the group is largely comprised of folks from the religious right. The same folks who wish to legislate morality.
quote glider: What's wrong with Palin, anyway?
quote lw: Are you really serious?
I wish to see morality neither legislated nor passed by the U$ Gubmit. Saraah Palin is too much about the bible and too little about intellectual abilities. Btw, your gal is a micromanaging quitter who prizes brawn over brains. I think she is a vindictive moron who wouldn't be part of this conversation if Mclame hadn't offered her the vp slot. Stupid move by a stoopid fellow, imo.
lw
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
No candidate is perfect. Palin isn't going to be able to get a state appointed church in place any more than Ron Paul is going to get the Federal Reserve dissolved. Mind you, I don't want a state appointed church, but I would mind trying life without a Federal Reserve.
Regarding intellectual abilities, I'm thinking that anyone with more brains than desire for power simply never makes it into politics. We managed with three terms worth of Bushes (cowboy anyone?) and two terms of Clinton (Bubba much y'all?) so I'm sure we'd manage with a term or two of Palin as well.
How's that joke go? Three guys find a magic genie lamp. The genie grants them each a wish. The first wishes to be the smartest person in town. He soon finds himself running multiple business and cleaning up corruption in the local government. The second wishes to be the smartest person in the country, and the next thing you know he is touring the Ivy League schools with his lectures. The third wishes to be the smartest person in the world, and *poof* he's turned into a woman.
What was I saying? Yeah, I'm not saying Palin is a rocket science, but she's got enough to do the job.
-G-
I think Bush Jr showed us what happens when a politician has more connections than brains. I don't believe this job is for the intellectually challenged. A propensity to act on feelings and entrenched beliefs (maybe false) make it dangerous for a person not accustomed to intellectual pursuits to be president of the U$, imo. Sarah Palin required five changes of universities to finish her bachelor degree in journalism. And she was unable to finish out her term as governor as well.
Sarah was wrapping herself in the flag and "family values," while running for office. However, she also had a daughter with boyfriend sleeping over on a regular basis. (Regular enough that the kid in question insists Sarah knew of the sleeping arrangements.) So her daughter gets knocked up under Sarah's nose. NOT the family values I care to follow, nor the intellectual capacity to lead our great nation.
We can agree to disagree all you want. I'm comfortable in my opinion that Bush was leading us down the wrong path and he's an intellectual giant compared to Sarah P, imo. Frankly, I'm surprised to see you taking this stance. I'm now guessing your desire to carry weapons and zeal for that issue alone has colored your judgement on this topic.
Sarah Palin represents the religious right. The religious right wishes to legislate morality from DC. I do not wish to live in a country where church is mingled with state. (And I have a tough time believing you want that, either.) Sarah Palin's faith is too strong and her mind too weak for the job in question.
The day our great country turns to a theocracy is the day I consider taking up arms........
lw
Dudes, Sarah Palin is the anti christ. She will push the nuclear button and then wink, don't ya know.
All seriousness aside, I am totally amazed that people take her seriously in the slightest
The rightwingnuts talk about the evils of the "elite", but don't we want the best and brightest in power? I mean some of my right wing "friends" say about Plain "well she hunts and fishes" "she's a woman of the people".
If she steals the election like Shchrub did TWICE. then maybe I will join you at the gun store, cause then it would be time for violent revolution.
I wish we had a greater degree of separation between church and state in this country. Why Janet Reno felt she needed a definition of what a cult is has always been beyond me. John Ashcroft was not an improvement.
On the other hand, the office of U.S. Attorney General might well be an exercise in compromise designed to please no one.
I personally think Bush was brilliant. I think he came close to being as smart as Clinton. If you think otherwise you might just be assuming that he was looking out for someone other than Number One.
-G-
http://www.slate.com/id/2251669/pagenum/all/#p2 (http://www.slate.com/id/2251669/pagenum/all/#p2)
quote from linked article:.... Listen to Tea Partiers on cable news—or read the signs they hoist or their Internet comments—and you frequently encounter the flagrant abuse, the historically ignorant misuse, of words such as tyranny, communist, Marxist, fascist, and socialist.
You hear them say, for instance, that we live under "tyranny" because one side lost a health care vote in an elected legislative body. And that, in all seriousness, the president is a communist. For many Tea Party members, the word is not just a vile epithet; it's a realistic political description. Check out this clip in which Tea Party "celebrity" spokeswoman Victoria Jackson flatly tells a flummoxed Fox News host, "The president's a communist." When the host (the Fox host!) starts to object, she responds that Glenn Beck has taught her that progressive is a code word for communist. (Time to put that ugly hammer and sickle logo inside the "O" on your I-hate-Obama T.P. protest sign!)
Unless of course Obama is really a "fascist," as some T.P.ers have it, because he's a liberal, and liberals are fascists (as we all know from that magisterial work of history, Liberal Fascism by Jonah Goldberg). So instead of the hammer and sickle, draw a little Hitler mustache on Obama's face on your T.P. hate signs. Or better yet, parade around with a swastika! (The Tea Partiers seem to get a special kick out of this, for some reason.)
cont quote: ......... made me think further about "cult of personality" as a phrase in relation to the Tea Party. It occurred to me that their cult of personality is a kind of perverse cult of Obama. They've made a graven image of alien evil out of him. Obama: communist, Muslim, Kenyan, Manchurian candidate, fascist, socialist, capable of all varieties of political malevolence. A supervillain, with superpowers. Who requires super lies to combat.
It's time to take on these superliars and stop them from spreading their poisonous ignorance.
I found this article interesting....
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/21 ... -from-god/ (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/21/worshipped-by-tea-baggers-now-glenn-beck-says-hes-had-a-revelation-from-god/)
quote from the linked article:
Worshiped by Tea Baggers, Now Glenn Beck Says He's Had a Revelation from God
Jon Ponder | April 21, 2010
Last week, we found what we thought was a definitive poll result in the New York Times/CBS News survey of self-identified tea baggers. The fact that 57 percent of them still support George W. Bush speaks volumes.
But uber-pollster Nate Silver at FiveThirtyEight.com looked at the same poll and found a factor that is much more revelatory and potentially alarming:
[Tea-partiers] are disproportionately attached to, and perhaps influenced by, FOX News. And they are particularly enamored of Glenn Beck. Nationally, just 18 percent of people have a favorable opinion of Beck (the majority have no opinion whatsoever about him). But most tea-partiers do. Do the math, and you'll find that 59 percent of those who do think highly of Beck consider themselves a part of the tea-party. This is, in fact, the single biggest differentiator of any of the items that the NYT asked about: not ideology, not any particular political belief, but whom they watch on television.
What makes this prospectively troubling is that, on his radio show yesterday, Beck informed his followers that he's had a revelation from God:
BECK: God is giving a plan, I think, to me. That is not really a plan. The plan that he would have me articulate; I think to you, is get behind me. And I don't mean me. I mean him. Get behind me. Stand behind me.
Although his followers seem unaware of it, Beck is a Mormon — a fact that might come as an ugly surprise to the 39 percent of tea baggers who call themselves evangelicals, a group that considers the Mormon Church a satanic cult. Mormonism has been rife with prophets since its founding in early 19th century. In fact, unlike most Protestant sects, Mormonism was founded by a man who claimed to be a prophet. According to Mormon theology, Joseph Smith claimed to have been directed by the angel Moroni to a set of golden plates buried in a field in New York state. The plates — which no one other than Smith ever saw — were engraved with text that Smith would transcribe into what became the Book of Mormon, the third Testament in the Mormon Bible.
As a Mormon with hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of followers, it's feasible that Beck might elevate himself from Latter Day Saint to latter-day prophet as well. If Beck continues along this route, we may be looking at the first new cult movement of the 21st century.
A tea bagger told me that the Obama administration was full of marxists(and not Groucho marxists, like me)
I said I know real marxists and they hate Obama as much as the baggers do, and that Obama certainly wasn't a Marxist. He wanted to know all about them. What I didn't tell him was that they are some of the best people i know. The smartest, best informed and most committed to all humanity.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/23 ... recession/ (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/23/gallup-75-of-americans-correctly-blame-bush-for-bush-recession/)
Gallup: 75% of Americans Correctly Blame Bush for Bush Recession
Jon Ponder | April 23, 2010
According to a new poll from Gallup, three-quarters of Americans still remember that the financial meltdown happened on George W. Bush's watch.
However, just 19 months after the second greatest economic collapse of the past 100 years — and as a direct result of Republican efforts to rewrite the disastrous history of the Bush administration — a growing number of those surveyed said they are beginning to blame the Bush Recession on Pres. Obama. According to Gallup, in July 2009, only 32 percent — roughly the same number who self-identify as Republicans — blamed Pres. Obama. Now that number has risen to 50 percent. The jump in numbers was caused by the fact that 50 percent of independents and even 26 percent of Democrats now believe that Obama, who was a presidential candidate while serving in the Senate at the time of the meltdown, caused the recession.
On the other hand, Americans have not been completely swayed by conservatives' attempts to rewrite history. In the 2009 survey, 80 percent blamed Bush, compared with 75 percent today.
Quote from: "laughingwillow"Gallup: 75% of Americans Correctly Blame Bush for Bush Recession
Jon Ponder | April 23, 2010
Silliest thing I've read all week, and it serves as a reminder as to why partisanship and a quest for understanding tend to be mutually exclusive.
The recession was "caused" by systemic issues, and really has little to do with any president, past or sitting.
After further thought, I'd like to revise my position regarding Reno / Ashcroft.
While I was not a fan of Ashcroft, at least he didn't run around trying to burn out people he didn't like.
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/26 ... publicans/ (http://www.pensitoreview.com/2010/04/26/a-growing-consensus-tea-partiers-are-just-militant-sore-loser-republicans/)
from the linked article: At a speaking gig last week for the Manufacturers' Association of South Central Pennsylvania, Newt Gingrich predicted that the tea party movement would eventually morph into the "militant wing of the Republican Party," rather than spinning itself off into a third party.
A few tea party types have taken umbrage at Gingrich's use of the word "militant," but there has been scant complaint so far about his describing them as Republicans. This is potentially significant, because not so long ago tea partiers would have loudly denied they were aligned with the GOP or any party.
Gingrich's statement reflects a growing consensus that tea partiers' assertions of independence may no longer be true, if in fact they ever were. The consensus is based in part on a series of polls of self-described tea partiers — here, here, here and here — that has confirmed the obvious: Tea baggers are conservatives with strong Republican leanings, including an abiding adoration of George W. Bush.
Even without the polling, the protesters' bias has been clear from the start. During the Bush years, the folks who would become tea party protesters in the Obama era sat complacently by while the most inept and corrupt administration and Congress in modern history piled up abuse upon abuse and excess upon excess. It wasn't until about a month after Barack Obama was inaugurated that — after eight long years of Bush, Cheney and the rest — these same folks suddenly found they'd had enough and started hitting the streets with their poorly spelled, often racist hand-lettered signs.
Drill, baby, drill!!!!
Ya a lot of the Mormons do idolize Beck. It's questionable whether many of them would follow Beck if he contradicted their actual sitting prophet tho. There are such Mormons, but if pushed too hard by the church, traditionally such types have left the mainstream church to join with their fundamentalist brethren. There are already many thousands of Mormons who have left, because they see the SLC church as apostate.
The Mor(m)on survivalists, the militia types, agree with most of what Beck is saying. Actually, much of what he says is just recycled fundamentalist Mormonism with a timely spin.
It is conceivable that the SLC church leaders may actually counsel their members to disavow Beck, if he strays too far from their agenda. Right now, they are essentially in agreement, so he is left alone. Because he energizes their base, he is good. That could change.
This is a funny thread to me. Very partisan. :baffled: :beek: :bgrin:
Quote from: "dendro"This is a funny thread to me. Very partisan.
Really? I hadn't noticed. :e_biggrin:
eh heheh...
mebbe I'm reading too much into the implications. :smoke:3
I seem to be seeing things more in non-dual terms these days. :baby-taptap: :geek: