i was wondering what amounts of caapi and psychotria viridis some of you would recommend for a moderate trip? By moderate i mean what you might get at a Santo Daime ceremony,or some such ceremony, in ONE drink, to begin your evening. I'm asking in particular about caapi and psychotria, not the other plants.
From what i've gathered on the net so far, it sounds like 40g caapi and 15g psychotria would be right.. any reactions to that??
RD
Dosages vary totally as the potency of biological material varies considerably. 15g Chacruna seems way to little even for strong chacruna. 50-100g Chacruna seems more about right and as for caapi, again it depends but I'd go for 50g-100g dependant on strength.
Booosh
Yes, there are so many variables--from your body to your plants--it's impossible to speak with precision. However:
QuoteBy moderate i mean what you might get at a Santo Daime ceremony,or some such ceremony, in ONE drink, to begin your evening. I'm asking in particular about caapi and psychotria, not the other plants.... From what i've gathered on the net so far, it sounds like 40g caapi and 15g psychotria would be right.. any reactions to that??
Analysis of the tea used by the UdV shows a serving to usually contain about 25 mg of DMT (this is a little on the light side; ayahuasca used in mestizo ceremonies in Peru can often have up to 75 mg of DMT per serving).
Phytochemical analysis conducted by Callaway on psychotria shows an average concentration of 7.5mg / per gram, but this can vary widely (standard deviation of 5 mg/gram).
The only problem with these numbers is that they seem inconsistent with experience. If one assumes that one has extractions which are 50% efficient, that would suggest that seven grams of psychotria per serving would yield an average, mild serving. But in general people find anything under 10 grams of psychotria to be hit and miss, and many people go as high as 25-50 grams per serving. One could assume that the psychotria on the market tends to be pretty weak, as compared to the material that Callway used for his analysis (and keep in mind that he
did find some leaf that had no detectable DMT content).
And people's bodies vary widely too. I know people who refuse to use more than, say 15 grams of chaliponga. But I can barely feel anything under 25 grams (this isn't macho ingestion syndrome, it's just differences in metabolism).
I make it a point not to recommend doses, but given what you're trying to do, 15 grams of psychotria (assuming it's good) wouldn't be out of line. However, that's a pretty small quantity, so you'll want to consider making sure the caapi dose is sufficiently strong (which most people find at about 50 grams, but again, I need at least 75 for a good cup of tea).
And I wouldn't expect much strength from such a tea. Keep in mind in the Santo Daime they tend to drink all night long, so taking three or more servings over the coarse of a work wouldn't be uncommon.
One other thing to keep in mind: the Santo Daime don't drink ayahuasca, they drink Daime. Same plants, but a slightly different alchemy.
I agree with Amom on this...
15g of my Hawaiian homegrown Psychotria is enuff to see the light, for a sensitive, contemplative sort of person. But I advise 20g, even for quality.
Since I had my gall bladder out a couple years, the brew comes on faster and more reliably, assuming none is now getting stuck in the clogged bladder.
I have participated in a three-day Daime feitio, (Prem Baba hinario, not SD church) and yes it is a sacred space of brewing a sacrament to introduce a divine being. We drink, sing and pray while cleaning, pounding and brewing. We have excellent quality plants here in Puna now. We have brewing masters. The Daime is strong. And yes, we drink 3-4 cups in a work session, lasting 6+ hours. The third is killer, but the first is lively too.
One cup will have me in elf, alien and clown space. :blaugh:
RD, if I drank the equivalent of 3 cups of Daime in one go to start an evening, I would expect to spend a considerable time (at least 2 hours) motionless.
For a one cup drink like you want, I would rec 50g vine. I find pranayam really helps the cup come on fast and strong, coursing thru the pineal, followed by some tranquil contemplation. Then go have fun :smoke:3
Quote from: "dendro"I have participated in a three-day Daime feitio, (Prem Baba hinario, not SD church) and yes it is a sacred space of brewing a sacrament to introduce a divine being.
In a traditional SD church, they probably serve the strongest Daime during the feitio. Is it the same way at your church?
Our Prem Baba group is quite new here in Hawaii, and I don't know anything about his ceremonies etc. in Brazil or elsewhere. I've only been to one feitio.
I just drink whatever they hand me. But during feitio, if Daime was offered and I had reasons not to drink that cup, I didn't, and it was cool with the leaders. (like, if I was exhausted physically from pounding, and more would have rendered me unable to pound or do other work, or if I had to drive home soon).
But at feitio, Daime is dispensed freely at various times, in a not so structured way as it is in ceremony. More by the spirit as it moves the leader.
It's hard for me to judge, cuz I''m pretty sensitive to Daime. And the effects are both cumulative during the day, and involved with devotion, and thus not so "dose-dependent". Plus, as a yogi I tend not to notice "effects" so much, as I seek the divine consciousness, and when I am absorbed, I care less for effects, except as they reveal the presence.
But Daime is perhaps the best entheogen I know for pranayama, as the vine provides that "relaxation" that enhances the pranayam to distill into absorbed tranquility. For a kriya yogi, pranayama is the key that opens high states, more so than the dose amount.
As an example, one day, before starting vine cleaning, I drank one full glass. Listening to music mantras while working, I got so high I couldn't keep working, and had to close eyes and relax. Soon I was breathless, balanced and in peace. I find this state to be one of grace, and an end in itself. But as I had a job to do, I opened eyes and continued working, tho remaining in the breathless state for another twenty or thirty minutes until interrupted by helping another worker. During this time I had no "visuals" (other than an acute awareness of detail), but I did have "visions". I saw one set of closed eyes and peaceful smile on each stick of vine I cleaned, very clear and steady. CEV's were dramatic, but I needed to keep working. I heard astral laughter, saw joyful, peaceful spirits, and felt humor everywhere, and then the odd brief "vision" would reveal things unexpected and strange, but in the flow of normal "reality perception".
So I'm not sure how I would measure the "strength" of that cup. Mother gives what she gives.
I have found Prem Baba's brews to be divinely efficacious, but the new Daime we have made recently is also. It has all seemed equally strong to me, whether in feitio or ceremony.