Right from day one these two things have gone hand in hand for me and I know they do for many people. Music can transport you to realms un-imagined in the right frame of mind. One of my favorite trip guides is the old album by the good ole Grateful Dead, Axomoxoa. Each song takes you to a different head space, takes you to many levels and connects you to different energies. As a musical work it's fairly medium, but it is a shamanic tool par excelence.
Here are some questions I hope we can generate as much action as the "Twisted lyrics" thread did.
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
Well have fun guys and let the games begin!
Quote1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
Started out listening to Pink Floyd. Not my choice, someone with me knew it was my first time and insisted that I listen to "The Wall". At first, I enjoyed the novel and strange effects of my mind on the music, but as I began to more "actively" listen to the darkness that is The Wall, the music began started affecting my state of mind. I was fighting with feelings of sadness and self-loathing. When I began to catch fleeting glimpses of emaciated African children lurking in the shadows, waiting to pounce on because
I starved them, I thankfully sought a change of scenery outside of my dorm room. :shock:
(I really like Pink Floyd, but for the most part it still isn't in my short list for music to bring on a voyage--- the album "Meddle" being a very notable exception.)
Not much later that same night I ended up listening to some Van Morrison--- which leads me to:
Quote2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
I ended up peaking that night while lying on a friend's dorm-room bed, listening to "Whenever God Shines His Light". Definitely not Van Morrison's finest song, but that moment is enshrined in my memory of as one of the most (and I use the term in the religious sense) "ectsatic" in my life. It may sound overwrought, but it was a moment that seemed a perfect nexus of music and spirituality, and I was lucky enough to be there.
That experience didn't make that song one of my favorite songs, and while I enjoy his work, I don't listen to all that much Van Morrison today. But that moment made me realize the power of music and the power of the molecule to affect each other to affect me in a very profound way.
Quote3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
The Greatful Dead in general, and "Terrapin Station" specifically. I had been listening to a little bit of the Dead since high school, and while I liked it, I didn't understand why the people I knew who were into them were waaaaaaaay into them. I had heard Terrapin Station multiple times before, usually in social situations, but had never really "listened" to it until I went with a group of friends on vacation at the beach. That week we spent a-- erm--- "colorful" day on a deserted beach, and the only music was a boombox and couple of Dead CDs, one of which was Terrapin Station.
While my friends splashed about in the surf, I instead sat in my beach chair and dove into the Terrapin Station suite and finally realized the epic beauty and skill that was the Dead. Later, going back to re-listen (or, really, listen for the first time) to albums I had heard before, such as Workingman's Dead and Anthem of the Sun, was almost like hearing a whole new band. It sounds really lame, I know, but that's what it was like.
I'm with JRL--- The Grateful Dead is still some of the most reliable entheogenic journey music, especially while coming up.
Quote4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
It's definitely opened up my tastes and steered me towards new music. I probably would never gotten into electronic music otherwise, as I used to dismiss it all as annoying, mindless, talentless "thumpa-thumpa-thumpa" techno. It turned out I was quite wrong. :D I've found that some of the most powerfully psychedelic music (in and of itself, sans molecule) is electronica (Boards of Canada, for example, comes to mind, as does Shpongle) Now, it often annoys me to hear people dismiss electronica the way I used to without having heard what's really there. :wink:
Quote5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
I'm not much of a musician, but psychedelic experiences make me want to create music. I play at making music, electronic or otherwise, but not usually while I'm altered. My skills are low enough sober. :)
X, thanks for jumping in. I hope this thread takes off, I am starved for discourse. My answers are forthcoming
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
grateful dead...and my acid guru jamming guitar...and i dont know what else...simpsons and xfiles on tv...and the movie 'bliss'...heh...
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
phish...beatles...pink floyd...shpongle...jayhawks...wilco...grateful dead...boards of canada...
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
most music...a different way of listening...not a got vs not-got...just different...
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
dunno...funny question...
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
my music is writing, that's my angle on it...i learned how after a year of trying...it's a challenge but jumping on the multi-dimension flow and sliding a pen along paper...it works well sometimes...especially with music on walkman going...to bands like those mentioned above...
eh...
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
Don't remember. My first experiences were on the whole not a lot of fun but not bad, nothing spiritual. My favorite music to listen to tripping is Joe Ely's first two albums. Excellent production, excellent band, the fiddle and accordion and steel guitar tweaked my acid-soaked nerve endings sending frissons of jagged razor-sharp icelike currents to my brain
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
No.
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
Yes, very definitely. "Indian War Whoop" by the Holy Modal Rounders. Excellent when listened to tripping. They were the inventors of "acid-folk"
Have never listened to the greatful dead while tripping... Was never into them... I did go see them with a friend who liked them alot... I bought acid from everyone I could... spent about $100 buying acid from nine people. I took it all. It was all bogus. I listened to the greatful dead extremely drunk.
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
Don't think it has...
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
I'm not too good of a musician. Drugs makes my playing worse. DXM increases my appreciation of music but makes my fingers clumsy. I play only by sight reading. The best I have done at this, however, is when I played piano under the influence of the combination of dxm and 2ct-7.
-bp 8)
ouh fun fun..questions!!
lets see...
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
i cant recall if we played any music on my first trip. first trip was acid, we were with a group of freinds, for whom it was also first trip. i remember loving the carpet and playing in the sink, being fascinated by water. by the end of the night, as we were coming "down", in the morning, we watched an episode of Pee Wee Herman and the Fun House. i had never seen the show yet..sure was a trip :D
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
not for me. as a kid i was always very much into music, even before psychedelics. i simply loved it, got high on Beethoven and thought it was really cool.
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
nopes. then again, in my early psychedelic days, i was still doing my punker thing. the punk music being a bit "simplistic" as far as chords go, perhaps there was really nothing to cement.
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
it really hasent for me. as said, i just love music. to me with or without psychedelics its always a magical experience.
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
i dont play music, but have always been around musicians and music lovers. my music is visual arts moslty. when i work on computer, i love electronica music, it fits well with the machine, and i dont like hearing words that much when i do comp work.
when i write, i also do not want words in my music usually.
when i paint, i like various styles..but always, when doing work, music is a big part of picking the mood i want to create for specific works.
fun questions JRL :D its great to hear people's experiences..
wwweeezzzzzz!!!!
1> Hmmm Honestly cant remember, although I do remember some of the experience and it may have been non musical!
2>The Doors
3> I would say Sphongles 'tales of the inexpressible' ---that is awesome to hear whilst tripping, truley a neo shamanic catalyst of epic proportions!! Had me in foetal position for hours!
4>I've found that psychedelics brings out a totally different dimension in music, i hear and feel every note in a much more involved manner.
5>I'm a fair weather guitarist, well i tinkle occasionally. I love to play whilst im tripping, on my own. I really start to feel the Love for it, and just let myself go with whatever im playing. I definatly feel the notes come to me more readily !! I am more creative.
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
My first trip was on LSD, and i went to a rave with Kluster and Grapes of Wrath playing. It was intence. I went home before it all ended, and listened to the entire Shpongle - Are You Shpongled? while lying in my bed seeing and feeling it all by myself... amazing stuff.
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
I dont think so. Alot of pieces sort of have, Miles Davis - Bitches Brew, Dub trees - Nature never did betray that heart that loved her, Mantaray - Numinous Island, Grateful Dead - Dicks Picks 4 and lots more in all those genres blew my mind every time.
I have tried listening to something like Dead Kennedys and Britney Spears, that didnt do anything to me. Britney Spears and that type of pop felt empty cold and plastic, Dead Kennedys I more like when im drunk :D
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
I have, as most people in here, always appreciated music alot, and felt it deep everytime, Grateful Deads - Ripple gave me goosebumps before i started tripping, and it still does (to take an example)... brrrr... But as Bushpig says. When on a psychedelic, one experiences a whole new dimension of music, it is inexpressible, the way it is experienced sometimes on a good trip.
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
I think it might have increased it some. The music i loved so deeply before, i love even more after having had a good trip with the music playing. And i think i hear more refined details and feels the mood better now. But that might also just be me getting older.
And i do select music with more soundimages now than usually, i rarely listen to 3 chord punk, or stuff like that anymore... it gets trivial and boring, and it doesnt do anything to me anymore.
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
I am unfortunately not a musician, but i did try out playing guitar, bass and violin for a period of time, would have loved being able to do that while tripping :)
I would like to add, that the appreciation of certain type of music etc. might come hand in hand with the appreciation and deep (mystical) insights i have sometimes had on trips. Which has opened up availability to appreciate many facets of the process and experiment of life, that i might not have had without psychedelics. I dont trip that often anymore. Right now, life is a trip, and the music is still playing... And i do love it :D
Great thread: Thanx fer 'da memories JRL... First time I experienced misic whilst triping...Live concert Quicksilver Messenger service. The energy was just such a sonic marvel... Used to play while affected... Sometimes it seemed to add a good dimension to the sound.. At other times, it seemed to decrease my precision and affect the subtlelty of nuance and interplay between other band members and myself... Uriah Heaps Demons and Wizards album had always seemed sort of mediocre to me until I munched 10 hits of some good windowpane..."Me and the magic man, kinda feelin fine".... Led Zeps' first album had always struck me as deeply bluesy, but with a sense of timing and expression that seemed to obviously be aimed at those 'unwashed psychedelisized masses'...If anyone still has the album, give a listen to Blues Magoos Psychedelic Lollipop...Seemed like a rather mundane work until 'under the influence'........... senorsal
My turn:
1) My first musical psychedelic experience was with two joints of "good" weed and Light My Fire which was quite new at the time. It was maybe the third tme I had smoked and I had never been close to this stoned before. Ray Manzaraks organ solo and even more important, the GROOVE the band was playing flat out put me into a trance.
During my first acid trip, the music that that I listened to in a dark closet on headphones was "Their Satanic Majestys Request" by the Rolling
Stones and Little Games by the Page-Beck version of the Yardbirds.
2. I think the tune that got me the most that night was "Glimpses", that bit of Beckian arabian weirdness on the Yardbirds record.
3. "What's Become of the Baby" on Aoxomoxoa by the GD
4. Tripping has shown me how to get below the surface of music, to feel the humans that create it. It's hard to lie to someone on acid and that's also true musically. Anything insincere, contrived or crassly commercial doesn't stand up under Hoffman's microscope.
Tripping has shown me the power that music has to effect our minds.
5. At this time I probably don't need to say that I have played under the influence of a variety of substances ranging from smart drugs to not so smart drugs to down right stupid drugs. I have found that if I know the music to be played well or if it a wide open free form situation psychedelics can be great to play on. I have been known to take the stage under the influence. Best to wait till after the peak, but in a good frame of mind and with a modicum of intact ego in can be amazing. The times I have been with a whole band of people tripping have been magic.
Guy's I am hoping this will prompt some discussion. One thing I have learned is that many psychedelic therapists use various music as there main tool.
are there psydelic therapists left? I thought they got put out off business as LSD and MDMA was made illegal... must be underground... but I have heard of ayahuasca therapists doing business... if i had the money I'd go to
one :wink: don't think insurance will cover it... lol
bp
There is still a network. People like the Shulgins keep it alive. and of course there are the amatures.......
Also an Ibogaine clinic in Holland runs ads in the local arts paper here.
there's an ibogaine clinic in th carribeans run by top US ibogaine researcher Dr. Debra Marsh of the University of FL. Makes ya wish you're an addict... hell, I'd qualify :wink: I remember reading on there site if you got no money or insurance give them a call... but would they pay transportation? doubt it... I'll give 'em a call after I get off of probation... unless i can score some ibogaine or seeds... think I once had seeds... one sprouted... don't remember what happened to it (too many plants)... always been wanting to try ibogaine for like 20 years...
byron
Anyone care to elaborate, I was hoping for some spirited discussion, I want this thread to at least as many views as the Black Metal Picture thread.
This may be seen as off topic, or only quasi-related; but I was wondering how many peeps have had what they consider a bonafide out of body experience brought on by music??? Back in 'da day, it was fairly common for me to experience such a thing while playing live... I mean, it was intense peeps!! There the band would be, locked into some fine groove and then 'it' would happen to me...I'd get the whole ball of wax.. A glance at the lead player from over my high-hats would show me a stranger instead of my buddy Jim.. Everyone in the band would be unrecognizable as who they were, and instead, would appear as some sort of archetypical figure.. Now , I'm tellin ya boys-n-girls, this would occur while not on any drugs or booze either!! There were times when the room would seem to change into a timeless place, having no beginning or end... There I'd be, sitting on the set, half wondering if I was really at a gig, or if I was in some hospital overdosing and merely imagining I was at a jam session... Hell, there were times when it became so intense, that I just more or less assumed and acceppted that I had died, and was off in the "otherworld" doing what I can only describe as jamming the celestial boogie with all the players from time immemmorial... Yeah well, guess senor better stop expounding or some may consider him "odd" :wink: --- Would dearly like to hear if other have had similar things occur......
I have had many such experiences, that's what I am goin' for. Playing music is an act of spiritual intention for the guys I love to play with and we talk about that stuff alot. Playing music is psychedelic in the purest meaning and it can take you to amazing realms. Jack Casady said something like: It's not the music we play, it's the realms we visit.
One experience stands out in my mind, and the minds of the other guys and people that were there. Foruneatly this was a night that was recorded, kinda low tek but decent.
I was playing with Jimmy Pailer and the Bad Boys, the original classic line up of me, Jimmy, and Drumbo. This was a telepathic trio and at the time (4 years ago maybe) we were all living out on the edge. We were doing our usual 20 minute version of VooDoo Chile and during the freak out section Jimmy turned way up and was just getting this amazing feedback. He grabbed his Strat by the whammy bar and was just waving it around, I turned away for a second and I felt like someone kicked me, I kinda went out for a second and came back and we were still playing. After the set Jimmy said "did you feel that, on Voodoo Chile when I was yankin the bar I left my body and blanked out for a second". I said "dude I was out there with ya!" Everyone who was there or has heard the disc says it was one of the best out of 1000 times me and Jimmy have played that song together. And even though the band has evolved a lot since then with a new drummer, a great second guitar player and singer and just a lot more skill, that cut still stands up, still sounds as good as the version we will play this week.
" Playing music is an act of spiritual intention" Damnit JRL that's a really great, great line.... Glad to hear that there are indeed others that have experienced such things.... It's truly a gift from the galaxies eh?? On a side note, I have always related to that lyric line on Procol Harum's Whiter Shade of Pale, where he goes "the room was hummin' harder, as the ceiling flew away".... I always figured that was a reference to the band having experienced some sonically produced OBE's........senorsal
yeah man there are a lot of people that have had that. I found though that a lot of the powerful musical shamans I have known focus more on the music and let the magic take care of itself.
Great line from a great song and a great band. I have experienced that space too. Man, night of playing almost always maked me feel reborn, if I feel bad after a show something is dreadfully wrong. I rarely trip on the "success" of the gig, it's all about if the sweet muse gave us that big wet kiss.
Oh yeah Senor. wanted to say that spiritual intent is the most important quality. It's about how committed you are AT THE MOMENT. Playing great music is a difficult real time challenge and it requires everyones full attention. And so many things work against you. It takes self mastery to put away all the issues and distractions of the day and BE THERE. And just like in meditation or on acid those issues will keep demanding attention till you release em.
Friend of mine says "hitting the band stand is like going to war" and the qualities you want in a bandmember are the same as you would want on the frontline. It gets that serious.
Quoteit's all about if the sweet muse gave us that big wet kiss.
that's the wet i dig
going to a concert wearing a towel
Yep, I can relate to the 'frontline' qualities needed in 'da sonic warrior' I remember a time when I kept walking past this new employee at the job. He always seemed to be playing air guitar.. One day, I ask him "hey man, you play for real?" He did. We got to talking gigs.. I asked him to offer a set list for our hypothetical first live gig... He was amazed that I suggested we play The Who's 'I Can See For Miles', as our intro piece.... He asked me why we should do something so 'cooked up, so bombastic as our initial offering to the crowd...... I replied "hell man, ask no mercy take no prisoners" "If we can't nail that tune, and suck the crowd into the scene, then we got no business on the stage there anyway" senorsal
Good opener. Takes a pro to jump in at that high an energy level.
Playing great music takes the kind of focus and hyperawarness that you would have if you were facing unknow danger. You got to be THERE!
See also://http://www.spiritplants.yage.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=409
i've been following this thread waiting for a good moment to jump in...my relation to music is superficially different from JRL's, as i write, i don't play guitar...but over time i've come to see that jacking into the stream matters not how, by guitar, pen, paintbrust, carnality, communion, deep body movement, tripping...the stream is there and one even as the paths to it are numerous...
i had an experience the other night worth telling...i was with KD at my favorite punk dive coffeehouse in seattle, up in the mezzanine, hidden from street view but with lots of windows to see the city, space needle, highway lights, and so on...the day had been a long journey, seeing a movie, some parks, some walking grooving around, best kind you can have with a lover or buddy...so we settled in, KD had some books and magazines so she was in her own space, open to mine but not needing my input awhile...she knows when my notebooks open up and walkman goes on that i am not very aware in a mundane sense of what's around me...heh...anyway, i put on wilco's double-album 'being there,' one of my very favorite records, i call it trippy alt.country or something like that...and i wrote my way through it...not about it, and not exactly inspired by it, at least literally, but i jumped on its path to the stream and went along...part of what i wrote was this love poem for KD:
******
Maul
Fingers vibrate toward dusking night,
eyes less glaring, melodies cherry up again,
the long scar of years gentles to a pocked scroll,
my beloved turns to me in the crimson air
between us, hand to my face, heart to my yearn,
moon to my inner tide, roots to my day's new high.
******
JRL talks of the focus and concentration in music making...i don't know where my words come from when they are the best i have...i did not invent language yet it is within me, yet it does not feel completely within me...i have always felt like my conscious writing activity was the conduit between infinity within and infinity without...like a dance between the two and i just write down what i perceive of it...i wanted to be a musician years ago, and a painter too, and write, but i figured i didn't have time nor discipline to do all three best i could...so i decided i'd make my words speak, sing, and color/shape...i'd write like my pen is pen/guitar/paintbrush...blow it up with visual fireworks and out with cascades of noisy and quiet notes...when it works, it works inexplicably...
by way of furthe example, and to encourage others to join in JRL's great thread here, i offer some of my work from last night...KD has class on tuesday nights and i spend those hours waiting her by writing at a local mcdonald's...the food is eh, but i dig the free refill soda, being a soda junkie like some are into coffee...so i sat there doing my thing, on my walkman was album after album by Creedence Clearwater Revival, a favorite band to write to, and at the end as i was leaving i saw an older man by himself eating a cup of ice cream...his spoon was shaking, he was palsied i think...and i noticed his shiny brown shoes...the image moved me...the shaking spoon, the sweet dessert, the rich brown shoes...that's where this poem starts...how it gets to where it goes, i cannot say (thanks for this thread, JRL, i hope it goes on and on):
******
World
Hand's shaking spoon raises the sweet,
his brown shoes gleam, his memories
warm with a secret day's kiss, the oils
smooth along her crevasses, flesh turns
to dust & feeds the world anew, spirit
pocks & breaks it a little more, whatever
god does creation's work smoothly between them.
******
Brother Ray, thanks for the inflight refueling. I, as you, made a concious decision to focus on one mode of creation. Figure if it goes deep enough it will include everything.
Had a friend ask me yesterday if I had ever been brought to tears by a piece of music... Jeez, I was incredulous, flabbergasted!!! Now , mind you, this guy has an above average intellect, at that.. I was amazed... My answer came instantly.. I nodded affirmatively and smirked.. "hell yes; I've damn sure been deeply, deeply affected, cried like an awe filled child and been held within the bosom of the eternal moment; I've been moved so that I have literally altered my life course on numerous occasions, due to an insight gained whilst being 'part' of the music".... I concluded my little rambling with a story... "hey bud, ya remember the song Lucky Man by Emerson Lake & Palmer? He nodded.. "Well, one night I was lying on the carpet, deeply into the song. All of the sudden, several of my friends began asking me if I was allright... "Sure", I replied "why do you ask" The group all pointed out I had tears coursing down my face (I was unaware )... I turned to them and smiled... Hey guys, I said.... I was "There" when the bullet found him!!!!.... Yep, music, sweet music, can indeed put one into the "eternal now", the jump into the navel/nirvana moment!!!!............... Put another dime in tha juke box baby 8) ------------- senorsal
i'll give you another twist...this morning i had to go to an orientation toward my new job and, afterward, found myself with some free time, and a record store nearby...i mean RECORDS as in used AND NEW vinyl LPs...good golly dang...i was holding new LPs by Wilco, Arcade Fire, Low, Bright Eyes...it made me crazy with happiness because back east in storage i have like 1000 LPs and a big stereo system awaiting me at 90 bucks a month...and now i know i can get new ones again...tears, senor, because while i have 60 gigs of MP3 albums on my mac, it aint Vinyl LPs...so even the physical container of music can move a soul to tears...
crazy, eh? 8)
A good question for me would be: "Have you been moved to tears by a piece of music today?"
Today, my answer would be "Yes!" Riding home after two glorious days in San Francisco, spent at the Fillmore seeing the great Toots Hibbard, hanging out in the Haight, looking for parrots on Telegraph Hill, riding to the top of Coit Tower ect. and reading from Phil Lesh's great book, we put on American Beauty.............
Spending 2 days at the Fillmore, and hanging 'round the Haight...... 8) --- Sounds like JR could always land a job as a tour director for the psychedelized :D ---------- Hey Cen, I know well how you treasure vinyl.. I have a friend that has such a large collection of vinyl, that he once had a rock radio DJ come over (prior to c.d. times) and inspect his cache.... The DJ nodded his head slowly and grinned. He told us that his radio station didn't have such a library......... senorsal---------- BTW: John Prine has a new album out if'n anybody cares.........
What I miss about vinyl the most is the 12x12 cover. Some great art showed up on those. ASnd how many joints did you roll on your Anthem of the SDun or Sgt. Pepper cover.
Liner notes, too. For a guy like me, often what I care most about are the "studio" musicians that played behind the artists. With the personel buried inside, what to do?
Psychedelic Tour guide? I could do that as long as we could break for refreshments on the Panhandle. "Gather 'round ladies and gentlemen, plenty of Kool Aid for all"
Come on dear friends, don't let this thread die!!
Yeah, the cover: senor had a 'dedicated' rolling cover. It was by the drummer Sandy Nelson, entitled 'House Party'.... I fully Grok the listings of all contributors to the music.... Many times, I would find myself bringing home an album that I had never heard of, based strictly on the fact that the sidemen/session guys were ones that I held in high regard... Kool Aid, Did I hear someone say Kool Aid??? senor is so parched these days :wink: ------------- So: Who thinks Dave Frazettas' album cover art set the standards to be judged by??-------------- senorsal
What are some of the ones he did? Maybe we need a cover art thread?
Psychedelics and music enjoy a symbiotic relationship, imo. Music stirs us emotionally and psychedelics amplify the experience. I feel the two in conjunction may actually facilitate personal growth of an exponential nature when compared to the effects of either, or.
I do believe psychedelics and music have a place in serious studies of human psychology, not only from a historic prospective but also with modern applications/implications.
Thanks for starting this thread jrl-bro. I'm now going to put a pipe and payday to grinding a little more grist for this here thread-mill.
lw
Before I head out.....
I remember my first psychedelic experience with music. It was in the dentists chair when I was about 10. Sitting in the waiting room and listening to my scaredy-cat little sister actually laughing in the dentists chair was the first indication that something was different about that dentist trip. When my turn came, the doc's assistant strapped the mask on me from behind and Dr Boeve began to work on my teeth. The family is christian reform and his choice of music for the stereo was old-school classical hymms to which he hummed along.
All I can say is that shite was way deep to a little kid on his first trip.
lw
....The second happened during a practice for ninth grade choir performance. The director had us on the risers in the aud. I was standing in the back row and flat out fainted from having my knees locked or something. I fell forward and the choir director had me mates pass me down to the front where I revived on the floor while the choir continued to sing the Gloira Patri. hehe That one was tre strange, too.
lw
We would just pore over the album art, perhaps due to our "condition", memorizing every little nuance, name, date....picture...anything.....being a Zappa person back then, there was always something interesting to contemplate :roll: :roll: :roll:
The first time I think I was quite young. Four of five years old. My older brother and his band often practiced at my house. I remember a hippy girl kind of scolding me, telling me sugar cubes are for adults only. Listening from the hallway. A few times they would let me play drums. Flashes to some bigger concert. It was too much for a little kid to understand at the time, but later it was like, hey this is where I was.
Thanks LW for your esteemed contribution, you too, TSTT,
A few years back we had this hamfisted crappy dentist who made up for his lack of skill by drugging you beyond oblivion.
He had 2 assistants, one knew I loved the nitrous and was real stingy and the other knew I loved nitrous and let it rip. I don't remember music other than the heavenly choir, but I do remember looking at the prints he had on the ceiling, and thinking "Boy that Norman Rockwell is profound"
If I'm correct, then Dave Frazzetta did his first album art for the band Dust... He did alot of the big busted babe on a horse/ buffed nordic warrior type of stuff... Some have pointed to work he did on Molly Hatchett albums, although senor never wanted to listen to Molly Hatchett... Speaking of reminiscence of early 'altered states', senor fell out of a two story window when he was 4-5 and had to go get his broken arm set... I can still vividly recall my mom, a doctor, and the nurse all struggling to hold me down on the table, as I had a mask placed over my mouth and they gave me the stuff (ether I think..) I can recall staring up at the filtered white light and feeling I was going to suffocate.. Then, I started hearing the "Wah, Wahs", and saw these concentric rings coming down from above and dissolving all around me. Never liked 'huffing' much, ever since that day :wink: -- senorsal
sounds like your garden variety huff. One of my first heavy experiences was from huffing "Pertussin" some shit that was sold to Mom's to spray in the room of their sick kids. Had a medicinal smell. I used to go all the way out on it. Prolly did in a bunch of brain cells.
I went to many concerts as a kid before ever smoking da kine. In fact I didn't start smoking until just before graduating from high school. In college, I tried mushrooms a few times before ever really having a bone fide psychedelic experience with music. That all changed with my first dead show, complete with an introduction to the visine bottle. I would have to call that night a turning point in my life. I walked in with no expectations and floated out pleasantly flabbergasted. All I knew was that the music had touched me with intensity i'd never imagined possible to experience. The entire show was punctuated with dramatic musical ups and downs and the heads themselves were freaky enough to blow my mind. Unfortunately, a fellow named paul who was touring by rainbow bus had stepped out into traffic a day or so earlier and the family's collective consciousness was grieving due ot his death. The band dedicated He's Gone to the kid in the second set and the emotions generated by the song, amplified by the sacraments and then returned to the band through the collective consciousness was one of the heaviest moments of my relatively short life up to that point.
I'm still convinced that I left my body that evening and floated above the event with the collective consciousness of the family at large. To be honest, all I really remember is summersaulting back down into my body toward the end of the set and feeling like I'd just awoke from a dream-filled sleep with details just beyond me grasp........
lw
Well said Brother Willow. Thats exactly the kind of stuff I was hoping for with this thread and In The Groove for that matter. Plenty of places to talk about bands, music jokes, gear, ect. Lets talk about what music is, does and means.
I just got done with just an amazing night of playing. After a year and a half of wednesday's at Da Torch, we are just really gelling. It's becoming a 4 way musical conversation, and it's liable to go anywhere. We play so hard for 3 SETS that I am just drained by the end of the night.
Playing like that is a lot like tripping even if your not. You gotta go through some struggle at first and get things lined up. Pretty soon you are ramping up and start to feel the power. You become totally committed, reaching way down in side and bringing up every kind of emotion.
Then you settle down a bit and just play for the sheer joy of creating, so tuned in that magic happens.
When it's all over, you feel drained, but reborn, and at peace. You know you went through something real and hopefully you learned a bit.
Garcia called it an act of love, let it be that!
jrl: I'm glad to hear you are getting/giving so much during your gigs at the torch. I really want to hear you guys. One of these daze, eh?
.............After my first dead show I experienced a psychedelic honeymoon of sorts that lasted for about four years. During that time, I became comfortable navigating the headspace of dead related shows while under the influence Bear's finest sacrament. The music, crowd and sacrament fit sooo nicely......
However, in 1988 I had my first close-up and personal encounter with the Spirit at a dead show in laguna seca ca and my psychedelic world was seriously rocked. And it wasn't until that point that I really knew what terror could feel like while magnifyed by a powerful sacrament and music. My focus became making it out of a show alive without shitting my pants in the process. Tours became exercises in russian rullette for me. Most shows were pleasant enough after that, but there was always the exception to keep me on me toes.
What has changed in the intervening years has been my perspective. I now find the current carefree shows resembling those first of my first years to be a tad boring. And I welcome those rare visits by the Spirit, even if shitting my pants is always in the back of me numb skull.
But one thing is for sure.... Musical events remain the single event I reserve for the ingestion of the holy sacrament. (Where permitted by law, of course.)
lw
Thanks, man, The next night I had a night just as good playing with my favorite jam band, Mind X(formerly Mind Expansion). The music is a combination of bluegrass/world/jazz/funk/techno/Dead with lots of jamming. Kevin Burton( he used to play with Frankie Beverly and Maze) on the Casio keyboards was the featured soloist. Kinda like Bernie Worrell. Lot of funk/church/jazz chops.
We also got a great percussionist/didg player, a fantastic guitar player, and Sean Barfly, band leader, on acoustic guitar, various mandolins and violin. Plus bass and drums.
Twas a ripping good time.
The astral weather at Dead shows is always intense. last time I saw them (with no dose) my third eye opened right up. The first set I could see the crowd feeding them energy. It looked lke they were standeing in the surf, waves lapping at their feet.
Second set we moved up to the seats(Cal Expo) in back and I watched the amphitheater fill up with spirit like a bowl of milk.
I've caught a few shows at cal expo. Powerful little place.
Inviting the Spirit
To me, shutting off enternal dialogue is one of the first steps in the full-blown musical/psychedelic experience. Connecting with the music on an emotional level, or first, maybe cultivating a sensitivity for the emotional aspect of a given performance piece is necessary, imo. The simple act of letting go isn't always as easy as it sounds. My pre-show ritual will usually include the induction of a light trance state hours before the event. Fasting and/or drumming may facilitate the transition. While my preparation varies little from show to show, I would estimate that an intense psychedelic experience occurs about 25-30% of dead related events attended. (this has been a fairly consistant average for the last couple of decades) Interestingly, many say I appear to be sleeping while absorbing these most intense psychedelic lessons .
lw
It's the same on my side of the stage. You have to get to the place where nothing exists but you and the music. Goes to show you it is all part of the same thing Player-listener, yin yang.
I tell my students that the mental state they need to be in when laying is the same as when they are tottaly absorbed in a favorite piece of music.
And on a good night I feel the Groove shimmering from the crowd. Thats when the magic begins.
quote jrl: I tell my students that the mental state they need to be in when laying is the same as when they are tottaly absorbed in a favorite piece of music.
I didn't realize you were giving sex therapy classes now, bro. hehe
One aspect I find important is the willingness/ability to relinquish control of the experience. And this runs contrary to much of what I read concerning the intentions of many who venture into the psychedelic state. Human epectations and desires matter little in the land of the Dead, imo. After all, what sort of a student assumes to know a curriculum better than the teacher?
lw
I do what I can. Actually sometimes I do more psychotherpy than I am confortable with. I do a lot of mentoring and coaching, like a sensei. We work on the specific things that keep the music from flowing, and I often present it as a matter of spiritual development. My teacher said "as you refine your music, you are really refining your self.
Relinquishing control. True dat. On stage it means playing with what is happening, not what could or you think should happen.It means trusting your bandmates. It means not being attached.
LW we been riding this groove, don't stop now
quote jrl: My teacher said "as you refine your music, you are really refining your self.
I have also come to that realization. And that's how entheogenig experiences under the influence of music came to play such an important roll in my life. (Playing and listening.)
lw
And as far as teachers go.......
This is where it gets a little tricky on my end. I believe I have a teacher. I just don't know who he/she is. (I'm not making this up. I think of it as the person behind the scene.) The lessons are conducted in the psychedelic state at shows. Communication is non-verbal. And I no more believe that I'm in control of the "lesson," than Jerry believed he was in control of making the music during those transcendental moments for which the dead were known to capture for hours at a time.
lw
"We met the enemy and he is us"
Pogo
We've talked of this before. Could it be the group mind talking to you? 10,000 heads are better than one.
I never really experienced it like that, but I don't have the experience that you do of seeing many shows dosed. I have studied their music my life and sometimes the vibe of the event comes pouring out the speakers.
I used to think that they put a lot of thought into the wizardrey and magic, but looking at it after all these years it really looks to me that they were musicians more than anything. They wanted to make art and to connect with their audience. Playing music is communication and communion, and it happens at a non verbal level. We call it soul to soul. And you are right, when it's happening it comes through you, and you aren't controling it, but not without your active participation and great effort to articulate your parts. it's a paradox for sure.
That last paragraph pretty much sums up what I've been trying to communicate, bro. (There are a few quotes from Jerry I'll post in this thread later that I just came across again the other day.)
I really don't believe internal dialogue is the source of the lessons. We humans appear to be too rooted in our comfort zones to produce this type of intense self-guided experience, for lack of a better term.
The most logical (hehe) answers for me would include three scenarios. Either there is a powerful person behind the scenes, or the 10,000 heads high at once actually birth a cohesive over consciousness or the Spirit is responsible. But the personal lessons ain't coming from me, even if they do end up in me head. hehe
lw
"Wade in the water you never get wet if you keep on doing that rag"
"Look out kid it's something you did, god knows when but your doin it again"
Spiritual comments from my gurus.
I think the higher you fly the deeper you go(from another guru) and go deep enough we are all one.
Phil says that in the early days they got information from the group mind, but in later years all he got was energy.
All the esoteric traditions say that the first step is getting to internal dialouge to shut the fuck up.
quote jrl: Phil says that in the early days they got information from the group mind, but in later years all he got was energy.
In the early daze, I mostly recieved energy. It took many years to subjugate me darkest fears to the point of being able to let go sufficiently to consciously enter that deep space with any regularity.
I have a tough time imagining how one would maintain the "information reception state" while playing a musical instrument.
A dead show is a giant, psychic battery, imo, complete with polar opposite charges.
lw
I figure a little clarification might be in order....
When I talk about an "information" exchange, it doesn't necessarily mean that the lessons gleaned can be transcribed. Rather, the information would usually be of a nature that would evoke an emotion, with "fear" being a favored hot button.
Which leads to another point you mentioned early in the thread... That of changing perceptions of songs based on listening experience. There have been a number of dead songs that have rubbed me the wrong way the first few times I heard them but ended up being favorites. There have also been a few favs that have ended up scaring the hell out of me dtr. These moments usually seem to occur during full-blown psychedelic experiences and the "information" whispered in my ear during the songs in question seemed to tip the scales in one direction or the other.
The Spirit is a trickster, imo.
lw
"I think the higher you fly the deeper you go(from another guru) and go deep enough we are all one."
That reminds me of something regarding quieting One's internal dialogue. I find I can tell how well I'm doing by how much the people around me are talking. Rather than quieting "myself" I focus on shutting "them" up. When the Chatty Kathys stop talking, things get interesting.
LOL Amen, ttst.
But you be talking advanced techniques now. hehe Teks I never had to learn until fairly recently, as chatting Kathys seem to be multiplying exponentially. Especially with the popularity of the cell phone. I can't count the times in the last few years that I've been forced to listen to cell phone conversations during crispy musical passages as a concert goer gave blow by blow details to a friend on the phone. Listening to two dumb fooks blathering on about how stoopid it is to pay good money for a concert and then to lay down and fall asleep, (talking about me) had to be a humerous low-light of me psychedelic adventures.
lw
The bottom line of the lessons imparted deal with personal growth, imo. Just like you mentioned above, jrl, concerning the other side of the musical coin. Personal growth. Point of view. Perspective.
In my experience, a lesson imparted at one show is presented in the future in order to see how well the initial insight has been integrated. This can lead to some interesting situations for a person as obstinate as me. Learning to supress thoughts and emotions when hooked up to the group mind is more difficult than getting connected, imo. But I spent a fair amount of time at shows doing just that. In the late 80's, many of the hottest shows I caught almost scared the living shite out of me. hehe
I may be going to hell in a buckett,
but at least I'm enjoying the ride........... - Weir/Barlow? -
lw
The group mind field at a Dead show is sometimes so thick you could cut it with a knife. To me though, the lesson is that those dimensions and forces are always right there. I mean a huge gathering is gonna manifest powerful energies, but it can be done with much smaller groups, if everyone can tune in that fine.
"Let it be known there is a fountain, that was not made by the hands of man"
LW: as far as playing music in those spaces, I think it might be a matter of just how much time you spend playing. A pathalogical muso like Garcia musics like most folks eat and breath. I mean if you do it 60 hours a week your body remembers if the ego don't.
I was once playing this Casino gig( believe it or else) in this little bumfuck Nevada town, and the sheriff's daughter(!!) took me out to get me high on the break. Joint tasted funny and she had this weird grin. Walking back in the world began to wowwowowowoowwww, and I realized it was PCP! Oh Shit!! Dosed with one of the few drugs I wasn't quite fond of.
My main fear was falling off the little semi circle lounge bandstand that seemed about 30 feet tall. But I clung to conciousness and made it through the set of Earth,Wind amd Fire, Pablo Cruz and disco tunes we were doing. After six months of playing these sets 6 nights a week they were part of my nervous system.
quote jrl: The group mind field at a Dead show is sometimes so thick you could cut it with a knife. To me though, the lesson is that those dimensions and forces are always right there. I mean a huge gathering is gonna manifest powerful energies, but it can be done with much smaller groups, if everyone can tune in that fine.
I'd have to take your word for the above statement. (But I don't really believe it.) It may work on many levels, but not the one I'm really interested in, imo.
lw
Back in the day we used to do it with 10 people sitting around a table. Obviously it wasn't high energy like a Dead show, but you could feel the Spirit unmistakably, beaming down like sunshine before a tornado.
i saw the band mercury rev in seattle recently...in a dirty little club called the showbox, gets good bands, but what a dump really, the band played like it was deep in the woods or on a stage shining with gold...couple hundred folks, few dancing but me and KD, they were just standing around with their drinks and tobacco, the band played like it was a tribal affair a thousand thousand years old...it ws...projecting behind them phrases of wisdom, challenge, koan...they rocked high and deep, whatever was going on included words, as in lyrics, and music instruments, the presence of many bodies, the physical environment, and the presences and forces that seem always around...were they teaching? i'd call it more witnessing, testifying...was there a dialogue? what else is there, though that word bothers me, inelegant...was there group mind? i don't know...i dont like much eastern thought at times, life is suffering etc...language is not an affliction or a virus, though many believe so...deny the body at the risk of all else...music sacred? music *is* like trees and love...this show still resonates with me...it reminds me of my phish tour days...a time of faith in shaking the night for its every last rhythmic, melodic jewel...some nights i'm still there...
'What appears as your shadow is formless as a mist
You keep telling your friends you know it exists
One becomes two then before you becomes three
Words climb your tongue like a ladder to speak
Drifting as you go but you row till it seems
All is one, All is mind, all is lost and you find, all is dream'
mercury rev, hercules, 2001
Well put, Ray. I don't think language is a virus, but sometimes all it can be is a finger pointing at what is beyond language.
I am so grateful for this thread, a lot of the experiences that these thoughts are based on have been memories largely kept to myself. Nice to compare notes with other explorers, we do this enough we get maps. I think these things are hard to talk about, I often find myself groping for words. So when I say "group mind" I am just saying that what I have perceived seems to look and behave in a way that you could imagine a group mind doing.
"It's like trying to tell a stranger about rock and roll"
I know the vibe you felt at that show. Monkeys on a rock, humans gather to celebrate life and its spirit. Seems to come from beyond, beyond religion, beyond history. I have felt it at a Dead show, felt it to the reggae felt it playing in a bar to 100 people, felt it in a drum circle in the shadow of the California capitol the day Mr. Garcia died.
Often when in the middle of it I think "why can't it always be like this, this is man's natural state, we were born for the ecstacy of soul commnunion?"
Fuck if I know the answer.
jrl: Today has been one of spiritual musings and pondering for me. Housework can be like that if'n you approach it right. I tried to tell weirdo that years ago, but I don't think he bought into it.
Anyway, of course one can feel the Spirit during a drum circle. But we're talking apples and oranges, imo. For that matter, we could deconstruct this thread to the bare elements needed to reach a desired state and settle for one guy clanking on a pot with a spoon while a kid sneaks his first cigarette hidden in the garden beneath an open window...... When a person is tuned into that state, it can be tough to tune it out, even without an active sacrament in the system.
Up until quite recently, I'm guessing the vast majority of the meetings of the minds including music and entheogens took place in a small group setting without the aid of electricity. ANd I believe the psychedelic tradition into which we have tapped has a tracable linage prolly, back to the root of a specific branch of teachings. I believe that.
Elecrticity has changed a few things. And there is nothing like the feeling of 10,000 people getting tangled up in spirit at the same time. Although I realize it ain't for everyone, including the faint of heart and those without access to dependz undergarmentz
They say my great grandpa was fond of taking the horse and wagon into town for supplies. I wonder what he would think about this atomic freight train? hehe
lw
I too ponderd today as well, driving between gigs can be that, also. And I will say you're right, there is nothing like 10,000 charged energy fields. But that doesn't change the fact that whenever I strap it on I am trying to do very much the same thing,and to the best of my ability take everyone in earshot along with me. Maybe its not an atomic cannon but you would be surprised where our sail boat takes us.
When you come to my show I hope you consider it a sacramental occasion, becaue I will.
Jeez, I love this thread!! I have had maybe 15 hrs of sleep in the last 4 days and been working my lil tail off, so understand that I am in no shape to add any coherent substance to this magnificent outpouring... Know that this thread shines with what SP is all about... Will post when I get a decent sleep ... Thankx guys.......... great great stufff---------- senorsal...... :) :) :) :D :D :D
yeah Senor, this is what I hoped the Groove would be all along. Please add your voice to the counterpoint.
No doubt, Joe. It will definitely be a sacramental occasion (or two) when we finally make that gathering happen, bro.
I guess my main complaint about dosing at bar shows is the wide discrepancy of audience expectations. Getting hassled by an uncomprehending drunk puritan or two can make concentration difficult at best. Not saying it can't happen at a dead related show, but at least most of the folks there respect the drill even if they don't understand thge deal.
But we'll be there brother. In all of Our electric glory.
sal: Kind of tough to burn the candle at both ends now that you're a working class stiff, eh? hehe
lw
After considerting my offer to post something of content; I figure Ah, what the hell.. I maen we that have in fact felt the mind meld of roup mind know full well that it does in fact exist... ... What more can be said 'cept stive to make it an everday occurrence eh?? ---------- Far as the workin stiff deal goes, well I work tommorrow and then the job is finished... (did not get that pipe laying job after all and have been picking up a bit of side work.... Actually, I'm ready to hit some concerts and soak up the vibe for awhile.... Gotta be more productive than workin fer a livin right :D 8) ------------------- senorsal
Hippy Festival - Seahag
I wanna play at a hippy festival
Hippy Boys and Hippy Girls dancin' to my music
Gettin down trippin on lsd
Sittin' round the campfire sippin on mushroom tea
You can trip hard and dance to a band that rocks
You can have a sticker and sign our mailing list
You can check our website if your puter still exists
I wanna play heavy hard and lovingly
I wanna play while you all run wild and free
You can trip hard and dance to a band that rocks
Thanks guys, this just keeps getting better.
LW, I got the same problem sometimes, cause dosed or not after a proper set my chakras are wide open. Wish there were more non-bar gigs around.
At Da Torch, we got a small backstage area but I am often chased out by the ciggarette smokers. We got no smoking in clubs, but that doesn't include behind the scenes areas, and apparently about 80% of the musicians I know are nicotine freaks.
Hopefuly when you come you can catch a Mind X show(I am supposed to be getting more of them this summer cvause the first call bassie is going on tour with Melvin Seals and the "Jerry Garcia Band" as well as a Jimmy Pailer and the Bad Boys show. Get the full gamut.
Reading back a bit I reread your line about one guy banging on a pot. It IS all relative. I remember my first psychedelic playing experience. Just me and my brother and some cheap weed in this little studio apartment he had. I remember thinking, I can see our minds, and they are meshing like gears. Wow, is this what telepathy is?
LW: "Up until quite recently, I'm guessing the vast majority of the meetings of the minds including music and entheogens took place in a small group setting without the aid of electricity. ANd I believe the psychedelic tradition into which we have tapped has a tracable linage... "
I think it was Phil Lesh himself who mentioned Ute and other Indians would gather at Red Rocks Amphitheater. They would gather there mainly because the natural acoustics allowed a larger audience to hear the drums. I've thought of the similarities today, and the natural progression electricity has made. Allowing such musical gatherings to occur anywhere you can get a generator. It seems like a very tracable linage.
http://redrocksonline.com/01_redrockspa ... story.html (http://redrocksonline.com/01_redrockspark/01_2_history.html)
http://www.coloradohistory.org/programs ... s_redr.htm (http://www.coloradohistory.org/programs/current_tours/tours_redr.htm)
Damn-- Don't start to apply any of those ideas if'n 'ya get into Tesla any: He demonstrated that there was a conduit that existsted in the cosmos, that would provide all that has been related to and more... IMHO Edison & such were lame compared to ole Nick------- senorsal
Could you imagine if we had Telsa around today? We could dose him up and put him to work on the new "Surround Wall of Sound." Probably cause earthquakes though. Maybe this thread should be locked for our own safety?
LOL For our safety?
No one here gets out alive, fellas........ (I forget who said that. HST, maybe?)
lw
I think Hank Williams said it first: "No matter how I struggle and strive, I'll never get out of this world alive"
"..and when the day had ended, with rainbow colors blended, his mind remained unbended
he had to die, you know he had to die...."
LOL I'm here to tell you the boys scared the be-jesus out of me on at least one occasion with a Cryptical/the Other one. But that never dampened me spirits toward the song. I just doubled down on the dependz.
lw
....Toostoned's joke about locking this thread comes way too close to the truth for comfort, imo. Personal growth through the ritual use of an active sacrament is illegal in these united states. And as spiritual growth has its roots in personal development, that makes my religion illegal.
Hab ay neigh dae. - the girls @ mickey dee's local drive up window -
lw
I was only half joking.
"Our generation is the first ever to have made the search for self-awareness a crime, if it is done with the use of plants or chemical compounds as the means of opening the psychic doors."
The Illegal Search for Self Awareness (//http://deoxy.org/shulgin.htm) - Shulgin
I am with you LW, we are sffering from religous discrimination and it is not getting any better.
"I think the time is right for violent revolution" Mick Jagger
I am not sure, but who knows.
"Keep on coming don't you stand and wait with the sun so dark and the hour so late" Now I do know that this is true. Gettin' darker everyday.
That's why we can't be apologists for acid and weed any longer, if you get my drift. Lot of people in the med marijuana communittee do that. Time for heads to stand up and be counted. And to prosilitize, maybe we should go door to door like mormons with paisley ties. Tell em I'll try your religion if you try mine.
check this out://http://www.spiritplants.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=548
Yeah, jrl, but I'm not sure I understand the apologist reference above. (unless it deals with those who back med mj but not the right to feed the head?)
But I do know its easier to fight a war from the sidelines. Then again, I'm all for getting the puff-puff-passers off of their dead asses and into the street.
lw
Exactly that: "This is medicine, we don't enjoy this"
Anyone remember this old tune:
"Smoking marijuana is more fun than drinking beer
They captured a friend of ours and gave him 30 years
Maybe we should make some noise and ask somebody why
But demonstrations are a drag, besides we're much too high"
Phil Ochs ( I think)
I keep remembering that Nixon ended the war in Vietnam as soon as he realized it would cost him the election.
"Who needs bullets when you got the ballot"
George Clinton
As far as proselytizing goes, I do my fair share.
There ain't much shame to my game, as those who have met me would prolly attest. hehe
lw
Susie read that and is attesting. hahahha
---------------
Too bad these definitions aren't in broader use.
Pharmacratic Inquisition (//http://deoxy.org/define/pharmacratic+inquisition)
nov. verb.- The Christian [tstt comment: Not just limited to Christian] persecution of archaic religions based on sacramental ingestion of entheogenic plants and the consequent personal access to ecstatic states; whose first great victory was the destruction of the Eleusinian Mysteries at the end of the fourth century; which then reached a gruesome climax in the persecution of witches in the Middle Ages; and which continues in today's Pharmacratic State in the guise of a public health "War on Drugs."
--------------
You say you want a Entheogenic Reformation (//http://deoxy.org/define/Entheogenic+Reformation)
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well, I know
--------------
I swear, I'm just one puff away from lighting me up another one.
This thread has veered off topic a bit but it is still hitting home, so let it be.
As far as the thread veering; I dunno... I mean===Psychedelics/music.. What a broad web we weave eh??? I have felt since nearly my first coupla 'experiences', that Psychs/music.spiritual awakenings/etc, were somehow entertwined.... As far as "waitin' till 'da revolution comes" Well, I have been one of tha peeps that could never let well enough alone / never just cruise and keep things under wraps... I have had literally countless conversations through the years with peeps concerning entheogens/counterculture/legalism/suppression/yadda yadda.... What I found myself prosetylizing most vehemently was my unshakeable belief that self exploration via entheos is not only historically natural, but that it is the "inalienable birthright of all us cognizent lil creatures... Can't say how many times I have defended the use of hallucinogenics and psychedelics.... The straight ones would always moan about ladies bein mugged by junkies/crack babies costing the health care system etc... It was always funny when I would steer the conversation toward "trip" drugs, and point out that they are invariably non addicting/cheap/damn near self regulating as far as dosage concerns etc.... The straights would stammer around mumblimg.. Eventually, they would utter something inane such as "but our guvmit says they are illegal"-----------!!! I say let 'da freak flag fly -n- crank up 'dem jams :D ------------------ senorsal
Not to change the subject or anything, but I just remembered a quote out of one of Mickey's drumming books that seems to pertain. I forget the old guy's name, but he basically said that there is a technical way of listening to music that needed to be discarded when exploring the spiritual side of the groove. To me, the best example would be a trip to the phil zone web site's show review forum. I never knew there were so many people who attended dead related shows in the capacity of "critic" rather than participant. I feel a total disconnect with those folks, to be honest. Imo, if a person has enough mental faculties to worry about song selection, botched lyrics and technical glitches, they just plain messed up on dose management. hehe
It just goes to show that different peeps go to the mental circus for various reasons and the freaky-deaky is strictly for the meekie like me.
lw
I just came up with a prime example of the above post...
A couple of years back, toostoned, the wife and I caught a dead show in Wisconsin. Those in the know were not expecting much, apparently, due to the fact that Phil was minus a coveted piece of equipment. R Hunter opened the show and reportedly left the venue before the dead came on due to low moral and expectations. (A storm in Illinois had roughed the scene up pretty badly the previous show.) And the venue was a pit, imo.
Anyway, we were stoked to catch a show, knowing nothing of the precieved problems. And it ended up being prolly one of the more memorable times of me dead life. A second set circus joint probably had something to do with that fact. It was and remains a highlight.
lw
Isn't there a TS Elliot line about "gossip of Michaelangelo"? Those with ears hear. Those without bitch about Phils bass tone.
Having said that, I must confess, that due to 40 years of honing my musical critical facility, which is essential to my functioning as an artist and a proffesional, dose management sometimes is crucial.
Q What did the Deadhead say when he couldn't score a dose?
A. This band sucks
LOL.....
Btw, I've been listening to the 10-9-89 Warlocks show that knocked me out of the batters box way back when. its been a few years since I've listened all of the way through. Anyway, it has been interesting to listen back to a night that was pure hell on my psyche. It was prolly ae low-light for me, but the band was hot as hell, pulling out more than a few dusty must-sees, like darkstar, attics, jack-a-row, death don't have no mercy. I remember fighting through the first set while the sacrament came on, as I dosed a little late for my taste. Anyway, the second set gave way to a psychedelic, Playing in the Band and the spirit tried top get me to sit down, but I refused. An earth momma beckoned from the floor with outstretched hand, but I declined to join her on the floor. Then a couple of tour rats made their way in front of me and started to try and pull me down with their thoughts and actions, imo. But I saw it as a psychic attack and not a suggestion so I fought some more. And I made it all the way through the song without planting myself. Then the boys broke into an uplifting uncle John's band and the heavy spell should have vanished, but I'd fought tooth and nail to maintain and I never managed to purge the psychic debris as proscribed by the ritual. Looks like I fought some metaphysical law and the law won. That night.
I relay this all in hindsight, of course. But through a lense of experience gleaned since joining this community.
Funny how a small change in perception can lead to big change in attitude, eh? - the book of laughingwillow -
lw
q: How maNy deadheads does it take to roll a joint?
a: Just one, if someone else deals with the stems and seeds first.
So I'm back to viewing a dead show as a psychic cleaning apparatus of cosmic proportions....
Ever hear of the cleaning wrase? Its a little saltwater fish that sets up cleaning stations for other species of fish. A customer pulls up and the wrase removes parasites from the body and even inside the mouth/gills. Large predators are some of the best customers, apparently never acting on reflex and devouring the little helper.
A dead show is much the same, imo. The Spirit chips away at pychic/emotional debris and devours this discarded energy as payment. Or something like that.
lw
Gaskin said that back in the day he would scoure for bad vibes and shoot em up towards the stage so the Dead could scrub em.
I always saw them as that, energy tranformers. But I think thats what WE are, if we are anything. It just gets manifest and magnified by mangnatudes by the sacramental substances and sacrametal crowds.
Truer words were never spoken, LW. Incriments of attitude x cosmic distances will lead to different universes. And knowing that, you can conciously make small changes in atittude, decide to shape up, don't take much to get the ball rolling. That's why affirmations before take off work, even if you just go through the motions. Just a little reminder, like the parrots in Huxley's Island.
Oh yeah LW:
I have had an interest rekindled in later day Dead shows, like 89-95. I got the So Many Roads for xmas a few years back but mostly listend to the first 2 discs, cause you know my love of 66-68 and the second quintet era, (100 year Hall ect.)
I think I got turned off later stuff by the crappy shows I heard from the 80's, but some of the stuff in this box is great. The trippy parts are more amazing than ever, and they were still writing good songs. Maybe you can turn me onto a couple goodies from that time.
I love getting the shows through the Willow filter, hasn't let me down yet. (by the way, thanks for the Phil with Willie Nelson. I would love to be a fly on the wall when those two grizzled veterans hang out. Any recordings of Willie and Garcia around?
1) What did you listen to during your first psychedelic experience?
Daft Punk's "Homewerk". It was pretty cool until a song that had two vocal tracks (same words) pitched way up and way down. It kinda freaked me out until I turned it off.
2) Is there a particular piece that cemented the link of music and psychedelics for you?
Well, assuming you can lump different psychedelics into one category, I would have to say that once I got a good handle on the psychedelic experience, I realized that I had had a psychedelic view of music all along.
3) Is there a piece of music you never "got" until you heard it tripping?
Not really, but my Mecca of music to listen to whilst tripping (L.S.G's "Into Deep") took on a whole new aspect when I first heard it tripping. It transformed from a cool album into an absolutely divine body of sound. I do not exaggerate.
4) How has tripping influenced your appreciation and selection of music?
I think I notice really subtle things more, and songs can take on a different groove or a different feel when I switch my listening mode to a psychedelic-like one.
5) I know a large portion of you are musicians. How has tripping effected your playing? Do you play high? Do you play out high?
Well I definitely attempt to put a psychedelic feel into some of my music, not psychedelic in the normal musical sense (weird sounds and effects and what not), but incorporate some of my personal experiences into the feel.
As for playing while tripping, I have not. I haven't tripped in a long time, and not many times in all. I think if I tried to even just jam while tripping on my current setup, I would find it entirely to complicated to get stuff turned on and find a sound to jam on (synthesizers). I tried to play guitar once on mushrooms that were just over threshold, but my fingers didn't respond very well, so I put it down.
Let me add a few more things.
When I referred to 'psychedelics' in the above post, I meant mushrooms and salvia. Those are the only psychedelics I have experienced, and salvia only once (that worked). And I'm not very experienced with mushrooms, so I have to admit that my psychedelic experience is pretty limited.
I'd also like to add that I don't really think of cannabis as a psychedelic. It has approached a psychedelic feel at certain times for me, but for the most part it's always just been a stupefying fun thing for me. But on the other hand, cannabis did have a very powerful effect on the way I listen to music. It helped me recognize what I know consider to be the 'higher' spiritual aspect of music.
In lieu of my limited psychedelic experience (except for significant cannabis experience), perhaps I should relate my view of music, and the place of music in my life, because it may fit into this discussion.
I wasn't always as completely into music as I am now. I guess I really started getting into music in my early teenage years, when my older brother started branching out his musical tastes. Before that, I really just listened to the stuff my mom listened to, like Bruce Springsteen, Hewey Lewis and the News. My dad is probably the least interested in music of anyone I've ever known.
In the years since my introduction to music, I have changed a lot. Most importantly for this discussion, I have developed a spiritual outlook on life. And over the past few years, I have developed the idea that music is the closest thing to the language of god that humans can make. Discussions on the nature of god need not apply. To me, nothing is as capable of expressing the infinitude of reality as music. In fact, since the fallout of my experiment with religion (paganism), my spiritual side has diminished, but I think music is the strongest reason why that spiritual side hasn't completely evaporated.
Another thing I don't really consider to be psychedelic, but some might, is MDMA. I don't recall ever getting anything spiritual out of it, but one thing it did do for me was show me the ecstasy (no pun intended :wink: ) possible in music. Sort of a continuation of the spiritual education that cannabis gave me involving music. And I don't think that would have happened had I not taken MDMA at raves (only once or twice did I NOT take it at raves.) The wonderful thing about being on MDMA at a rave for me is that I filter out everything except the group mind of those who are in ecstasy with the music, and luckily that connection with the divinity of music has persisted in the sober realm. I'm done with MDMA now, have been for a few years, but I definitely got some good out of it.
Yeah, jrl-mon. I've been waiting for the right time to spring a few crispy late year shows on you. The drums/space of the 84-90 era never ceases to amaze me. Jerry plays a mean midi piccalo in that warlocks gig mentioned above.
lw
1985 is probably my favorite Brent year. I'm listening to 6/25/85 (Blossom) right now. A recording of the Pittsburgh show the same year had a lot to do with me seeing my first show in 1986.
My first LSD trip, I listened to whatever was on the radio at the local private tennis/pool club, where my family had a membership. I remember sitting on the upper covered deck, and as the acid came on I started finding everyone very funny and I started laughing. My less-affected friend did a lot of sshh-ing and finally lead me out of the place to a more quite area in the surrounding woods.
-TM
Interesting setting, lol. Reminds me of the time when my friend Peter came to our Passover Seder trippin balls.
Veracohr: Isn't the divinity af music and an ecstatic group mind the essence of spirituality?
verachor: Da kine is a most-powerful entheogen, imo.
Why didn't you didn't TELL me this hella nutella was going to make me TRIp!! - semi-famous last words of mrs lw just as she realized something WAS shakin' on shakedown street. - hehe
lw
Eating seems to enhance the entheogenetic effects.
-----
Hella Nutella
-Spread Nutella on two chocholate gram crackers
-Sandwich generous amounts of kiff between crackers
-Bake 300 degrees f. for about 10-15 minutes
-Enjoy
-Sing "Well, well, well, you can never tell."
Is that anything like Utopian Bliss Balls?
Speaking of bliss.......
Even now that I've managed to change me prospective a bit and to go with the psychedelic flow at most shows, I still wouldn't call the experiences exactly blissful. hehe Intense, would prolly be a better adjective. Blissful upon safe return would be more like it.
What about paranoia? I've felt it buried in me guts on a few occasions. Mostly after shows where my emotions were invoked without proper release. Anymore, the spirit tell me to sit down and I be looking for the closest place to land.
lw
Quote from: "JRL"Veracohr: Isn't the divinity af music and an ecstatic group mind the essence of spirituality?
Well, it is for me! :D
verachor: I've had intense, psychedelic experiences while smoking cannabis. (where legal, of course)
I distinctly remember an incident in amsterdam involving purple haze and the ann franke (sp?) house....... The unexpected brutality of the exhibit combined with the psychoactive sativa put me down for the count in a puddle of tears. Luckily, there was a psychic purge that took place before all was said and done. I left that house of horrors a better person, imo. And I owe the life-changing jolt to da kine amplifying the unexpectedly emotional situation.
Btw,...... I been thinking over the matter mentioned earlier concerning the legalization of mj and the stance taken by those in the med-mj community...... If peeps want ot make a difference, they would go much further by simply planting their own garden in an effort to overgrow the country. Talk is cheap. Preaching to the choir counts for even less, imo.
lw
TJ and I used to go around with a coffee can full of seeds and would throw em' into city flower beds and along the river.
"Complicated Game" - XTC. Not fer tha lesser Virgil Ivan Grissoms. Bring crow bar for ensuing white knuckled-ride down tha rabid, rabbit hole.
"Bad trip..." is there any other kind?
Moneky feetz in tha shower, headz explodin' in ranbow colourz, tha starz fallin' on the hood of a car in the middle of tha woodz and goin' "Plop, plop...plop", the cloudz being sucked up in a whirpool and tha center on tha vortex that iz tha moon, red neon treez, fun with tha mirror, yer best mate instantly sproutin' debbil's horns - whilst beckonnin' ya to join him in walkin' thru a burned out church...catz & dogz livin' tagether - MASS HYSTERIA!
Anyway, that was the story I read about.
I am like Evel Knievel, "I don't need drugz - I'm high all tha time."
Yeah, Dachu wuz a sobberin' place. Two pairz of sockz and heavy bootz and me feet were numb. Prisionerz were forced to stand at attention for hours in that - with only wooden shoez. I can not fathom it. Lot after lot of "Grave of Thousands Unknown". Ice crystalz on tha barbed wire. Gas ovenz next to tha "Showerz".
"Arbeit Macht Frei."
Anyone else find it odd that Russia wishez to negotiate a Peace Treaty with Israel? Only seven more yearz to go!
Only those with Spiritplantzâ,,¢ tee-shirtz know fer sure.
Layterz,
Fin
Say what?
Yo, fin. I got that groovy tee mentioned above.
jrl: If'n you stop to ask fin a what/why type question you'll surely get left in the dust. So just hang on and be glad.
Btw, finny......... The wife and I watched a little independent flick last week called "The Station Agent." Anyway, the main character was a dwarf named finbar and somehow that has now became me wife's name of choice for a baby boy. Not that we're expecting, mind you. But the wife did have a dream concerning her birthing a baby boy the other day as well. If'n any what/why questions are going to be asked, I'd like to know just what you've done with me wife's good sense. I mean, she reads your emails, bro. hahaha
lw
Quote from: "JRL"Say what?
Hey JRL, that's a song - bump de bump de bum bum bump - Say What? Sum kinda Funk. I liked "War".
Iffin ya wantz a pacific answer - be more pacific in yo questioneae.
LW: Not sure I beez leavin' anyone in tha dust. More like a fog of utter confuzion...which iz whut I apparentlee typed.
Neber herd of "Station Agent". Don't give up the guud partz. Juss tha plot.
Thass jus whut tha world needz - more little Finz roamin' tha country sidez. I highly suggest eberyone stock up on tin foil hatz. And fire fighterz maskz. It'z a helluva thang raizin' a little Fin. Thay have strong urgez that must be turned from becoming porn starz. With any luck, thay only become adicted to stripperz.
That remindz me of a fishin' story. I once went fishin' with my two siameze twin cousinz. Or due thay count az one? Anywayz, wez out on tha lake and I axed me couzin, 'You freakz know how ta fish?'
Motherfuckerz neber sed a single word - just dove thay headz in tha water and started a splashin' and frothin' tha water around like a stripper in tha spin cycle.
Next thang I knowed, up popped thay headz, and both motherfuckerz had a fish in thay mouthz!
Thay spat tha fishez outta thay mouthz and Freak 1 looked at Freak 2 and said, "Gooney goo goo."
'Gooney goo goo?' Some kinda language that twinz teach each other. Likez Esperonto.
I proceeded to reach fer tha paddle and make me way to shore right quick likez. How tha hell did I know - maybee thay lookin' ta attackz ol' Fin next?
Wez has hadz lotz of freakz like that in our hamlet. Most iz clubbed like baby sealz at birff. Ya know, to give tha regu lar fishermenz a chance. That, and tha extre cost of baby picturez fer freakz. Sumthin' about thay havta use bigger sized paperz to get thay freak headz printed rite.
Well, these two were clubbed. H'it were a blessin' or a curse - dependin' iffin one beez a, "glassez half full er glassez half emptee" typa villager.
Yer wife iz apparentlee one on tha rare femalez of da speciez tha seez tha true Fin. Most juss, Muhammid I'm hard Bruce Lee himz heart out and chunkz h'it on tha ground and jumpz up and down on it like this....
Anybody gotz any guud Bigfeetz recipeez? Oh, iz h'it legal to shootz a Bigfeetz?
Fin
LOL I rest my case. The wife has been reading fin's emails for years. Now she see's a movie character with the same name and now our first born's identity is etched in stone. (There ain't no changing a woman's mind on a deal like this. She reads his emails for christ's sake! hehe
lw
Sounds like she's a keeper, bro'.
Lucky for me my village was a little kinder to us freaky ones, though the multiplicity of my heads was not so appeerent.
Just finished up listening to that show from Hampton in '89 billed as "Formerly The Warlocks."
Just listening to the second set unfold takes me right back to that intense time and space when I was unable to adjust me prospective from the ego driven individual into the collective.
What a closer.
Attics of My Life
In the attics of my life
Full of cloudy dreams unreal
Full of tastes no tongue can know
And lights no eye can see
When there was no ear to hear
You sang to me
I have spent my life
Seeking all that's still unsung
Bent my ear to hear the tune
And closed my eyes to see
When there were no strings to play
You played to me
In the book of love's own dreams
Where all the print is blood
Where all the pages are my days
And all my lights grow old
When I had no wings to fly
You flew to me
You flew to me
In the secret space of dreams
Where I dreaming lay amazed
When the secrets all are told
And the petals all unfold
When there was no dream of mine
You dreamed of me... - Hunter/Garcia -
lw
One my favorites, bro. Song was played at our wedding and will be played at my funeral.
One of my favorites, too, brawh......
lw
The secret space of dreams
where I dared not lay, amazed.
That secret space, with entrance
guarded by a solitary mirror.....
lw
But grateful are they
That get to rummage
In the attic from time to time
Attics' done been swept clean-insane
till only the secret space of dreams remain....
lw
You're still a Jung man, Baby
Way out of time
oh yeah, speaking of attics:
I got some primal furniture in mine that I kept tripping over when I was up there. I'd toss it out the window but next time it would be back like spyware written in the registry.
So what I did was paint it all dayglo paisley and learned to love it.