Spirit Plants - Discussion of sacred plants and other entheogens

i have a friend with serious backpain, and was wondering if kratom or something similar would be good to help it.

can anyone suggest anything?

-j.

Yes, i have a friend who used Kratom for back pain regularly and got relief from it but i think its a good idea to see someone for a diagnosis since back pain can be caused by many different things, some of which are serious.

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Kratom at the right dosage would definately releive pain, probably just as effectively as pods. Pods are illegal (sorry to disagree with you there, byroon, but all parts of the plant are technically illegal except the seeds), whereas kratom is not... yet. :(

I don't see it staying legal for long, though. You'd know why if you have tried it.

Nod, nod... puke! Hmm, remind you of anything already illegal?

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Here is a list of Schedule II drugs I copied from erowid. Please note that the opium poppy is specificly mentioned.

 

Quote1-Phenylcyclohexylamine
7460
N
Precusor of PCP

1-Piperidinocyclohexanecarbonitrile
8603
N
PCC, precusor of PCP

Alfentanil
9737
 
Alfenta

Alphaprodine
9010
 
Nisentil

Amobarbital
2125
N
Amytal, Tuinal

Amphetamine
1100
N
Dexedrine, Biphetamine

Anileridine
9020
 
Leritine

Benzoylecgonine
9180
 
Cocaine metabolite

Bezitramide
9800
 
Burgodin

Carfentanil
9743
 
Wildnil

Coca Leaves
9040
 
 

Cocaine
9041
 
Methyl benzoylecgonine, Crack

Codeine
9050
 
Morphine methyl ester, methyl morphine

Dextropropoxyphene, bulk (non-dosage forms)
9273
 
Propoxyphene

Dihydrocodeine
9120
 
Didrate, Parzone

Diphenoxylate
9170
 
 

Diprenorphine
9058
 
M50-50

Ecgonine
9180
 
Cocaine precursor, in Coca leaves

Ethylmorphine
9190
 
Dionin

Etorphine HCl
9059
 
M 99

Fentanyl
9801
 
Innovar, Sublimaze, Duragesic

Glutethimide
2550
N
Doriden, Dorimide

Hydrocodone
9193
 
dihydrocodeinone

Hydromorphone
9150
 
Dilaudid, dihydromorphinone

Isomethadone
9226
 
Isoamidone

Levo-alphacetylmethadol
9648
 
LAAM, long acting methadone, levomethadyl acetate

Levomethorphan
9210
 
 

Levorphanol
9220
 
Levo-Dromoran

Meperidine
9230
 
Demerol, Mepergan, pethidine

Meperidine intermediate-A
9232
 
Meperidine precursor

Meperidine intermediate-B
9233
 
Meperidine precursor

Meperidine intermediate-C
9234
 
Meperidine precursor

Metazocine
9240
 
 

Methadone
9250
 
Dolophine, Methadose, Amidone

Methadone intermediate
9254
 
Methadone precursor

Methamphetamine
1105
N
Desoxyn, D-desoxyephedrine, ICE, Crank, Speed

Methylphenidate
1724
N
Ritalin

Metopon
9260
 
 

Moramide-intermediate
9802
 
 

Morphine
9300
 
MS Contin, Roxanol, Duramorph, RMS, MSIR

Nabilone
7379
N
Cesamet

Opium extracts
9610
 
 

Opium fluid extract
9620
 
 

Opium poppy
9650
 
Papaver somniferum

Opium tincture
9630
 
Laudanum

Opium, granulated
9640
 
Granulated opium

Opium, powdered
9639
 
Powdered Opium

Opium, raw
9600
 
Raw opium, gum opium

Oxycodone
9143
 
OxyContin, Percocet, Tylox, Roxicodone, Roxicet,

Oxymorphone
9652
 
Numorphan

Pentobarbital
2270
N
Nembutal

Phenazocine
9715
 
Narphen, Prinadol

Phencyclidine
7471
N
PCP, Sernylan

Phenmetrazine
1631
N
Preludin

Phenylacetone
8501
N
P2P, phenyl-2-propanone, benzyl methyl ketone

Piminodine
9730
 
 

Poppy Straw
9650
 
Opium poppy capsules, poppy heads

Poppy Straw Concentrate
9670
 
Concentrate of Poppy Straw, CPS

Racemethorphan
9732
 
 

Racemorphan
9733
 
Dromoran

Remifentanil
9739
 
Ultiva

Secobarbital
2315
N
Seconal, Tuinal

Sufentanil
9740
 
Sufenta

Thebaine
9333
 
Precursor of many narcotics

The law is not as ambigious to me as is it's enforcement. This leads to confusion. They can be grown in most parts of the states without notice. I think that the point of criminal intent becomes obvious with the lancing of the pod. If leo walks up and sees what he beleives to be an opium poppy growing unlanced he may assume it is grown for ornamental purposes, and therefore he is not interested in enforcing the law on an unsuspecting gardener. If the pod is lanced a visit to the pokey maight be in order. They'd rather ruin what they assume to be a druggies day than that of a florist or average gardener.

I guess it depends on what you're definition of "legal" is, but the plant is scheduled, as far as I understand.

If it doesn't stop flower gardeners from growing and even selling them (in the case of ebay pod sales a major supplier was busted a year or two ago for selling unlanced dried pods to people, perhaps now retailers are using a different marketing strategy. BTW up until a few months ago you could buy peyote on ebay too :)) I don't see how it will stop anyone else.

My nephew is about to be realased from prison after doing 5 months for selling poppie pods on E-Bay. When he gets off of house arrest ask him how legal they are.

I stopped growing holding or using them.

The best thing for back pain relief is the right exercise. It won't do much in the short run but in the long run it's about the only thing that works. Concentrating on short term solutions which are nothing but paliatives is what gets us into trouble. I would suggest a yoga class and stay with it.

The poppy laws amount to unenforced statutes. Simply growing with no evidence of intent to misuse is no longer enforced. I'd stick my neck out and say you are safe on that one. I feel sure a good lawyer would get you off if they tried to bust you just for growing them. Sorry to hear about your nephew, JRL. I don't know about the particulars of that case but since they don't go after all sellers, there must have been some other factor. Perhaps an email in which a potential customer indicated he wanted to do an extact and got some advice? I don't know but they are still selling pods all over. Selling seems like a grey area but growing is safe, IMHO.

QuoteThe poppy laws amount to unenforced statutes. Simply growing with no evidence of intent to misuse is no longer enforced. I'd stick my neck out and say you are safe on that one. I feel sure a good lawyer would get you off if they tried to bust you just for growing them. Sorry to hear about your nephew, JRL. I don't know about the particulars of that case but since they don't go after all sellers, there must have been some other factor. Perhaps an email in which a potential customer indicated he wanted to do an extact and got some advice? I don't know but they are still selling pods all over. Selling seems like a grey area but growing is safe, IMHO.

Sorry to hijack this thread further, but to anyone interested, there's an excellent article by Jim Hogshire entitled "Poppycock: Truth and Lies about Poppies, Opium, and Painkilling Drugs" found in the great book You Are Being Lied To: The Disinformation Guide to Media Distortion, Historical Whitewashes and Cultural Myths.  Really explicitly lays out the confusion, ignorance, and just plain stupidity (on the part of the DEA) surrounding the issue.

Basically, despite the fact that they are openly sold by legitimate businesses (i.e. arts & crafts stores), all poppy parts except seeds are illegal.  It's relatively rare anyone is actively prosecuted for possession or sale, but that's only at the "discretion" of law enforcement.  

Back to back pain:  Similar to what Stoney suggested, taking up tai chi can do wonders for a bad back.  The Wu Style of tai chi, with its relatively "close" forms, is said to be the best for those with physical pain.

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hey guys, sorry i just caught this thread now, been busy setting up my pc, pretty much back in buisiness now, so should be in daily at least

as the mod, i dont care wheaver the laws are stupid or what not, but if it has legal implications then please dont recommend the use to anyone else or tell of use, can we keep it clean please guys?

on the flip side, i would have to agree that my experiences with medical morphine and codeine has proven to be great pain relief, opiates arnt as evil as they make out but the law is the law...

ive found that doing daily back stretches can help ease a bit of tension, a massage never goes amiss either!

back pain is a real downer, but it would be greatly advised to try find the sourse of the pain. fixing symptoms only leads to more pain if there is a serious problem behinde it.

Another overlooked potential pain control technique is hypnosis.  I have yet to encounter an individual in significant pain who would allow me to attempt to control his/her pain using this method, but I am confident that it would work based upon experiments on my willing wife.  Hopefully I'll get to test out my skills on her father, who has some kind of degenerative disc disease.  If it works, I would seriously consider doing this professionally :)

IMO, you need to take care of the cause of the pain, not try to cover it up. The only thing that ever seems to help backs is the right kind of excercise. I suspect that most back surgery doesn't help but in a few cases it may be needed. Doctors love to operate because that's how they make money.

I agree with you MOK, in that the only back pain relief that seems to work well is correct exercise...  It surely helped me, and I was in active duty military at the time (wouldn't have thought they would have really attempted much assistance and label me a malingerer instead.  Too my amazement, they sent me to back therapy 2hrs away a couple days a week for a couple months, and I got much better!!)----  On a side note..  If you  get really good at hypnosis, how 'bout putting me under and giving me a post-hynotic suggestion that each time I smoke a cigarette, I'll experience a really nice MJ effect 8) !!!!  ---- :wink: -----  senorsal

It's funny you should mention that, I gave my wife a suggestion that whenever I said the word "sequoia" she would experience the sensation such as she would after smoking "a lot of cannabis".  She describes it as a similar sensation to smoking cannabis, minus some quantity of the "high" described as "grittiness", and that it was not as intense.  I observed that when I invoked that word she instantly lost her train of thought and began giggling.

She also mentions that it enhanced various *ahem* sensory stimulation.

I had long harbored this idea after experiencing a dream during 9th grade geography class that I was incredibly high, and this told me that the brain is capable of simulating such effects.

Yeah MOK, I can see it now.  There you are; doing the talk show circuit, Oprah, Montel etc..  You tell the crowd you are about to demonstrate to them the power within the human mind, to heal, to be free from constraint:::  A participant is selected from the audience.  They relate that they have suffered for years with severe health issues.  As they feebly totter toward you; you begin to put them under...  The crowd is rapt with concentration...  Ta Da! ! !  Mok has the person dancing onstage; doing the limbo rock, as the crowd is shown the power of the mind! ! !   ---  Franchises are offered- You do late night info-mercials, lavishly filmed in exotic locales; your ever present black Ferrari often seen parked strategically behind you ....   :lol: ---------   And then, it happens...  The Feds swoop in. :cry: ..  They accuse you of being a charlatan!  The Surgeon General testifies before a select committee, that he feels you are psychlogically damaging the masses...  The case has the nation polarized.. Is Mok a healer, or in league with 'da devil???   The 9th circuit  court issues a temporary restraining order.  Mok is banned from "exhibiting psychological influence"  --------- 8) ----------  (Supreme Court will decide issue at later date :wink: )--------------  senorsal

Senor, wouldn't you rather have him make you get a cigarette effect from MJ, as long as you could get the MJ effect too, of course.

More fun than Nicorette!!

JRL:  Now that's what I call a 'wonder buzz'!!  Cure my nicotine jones AND send me on a cannibinol carpet ride :) ----  Might just make my Dragibus addiction problem addressable :wink: --------  senorsal