I recently found out I have some Native American in me.
I'd like to join the N.A.C.
How would I go about doing this?
What would be the best book to get? Is there a Native American Church Bible or Peyotism Bible? Or something of the sort?
Good luck.
First you have to find a tribe or road man to take you in. Any good road men in your area? I doubt it. Texas is prolly the closest they come to you, but who knows.
lw
The way I understand it, there are basically 2 branches of Native Am Churches that utilize certain entheos within their spiritual practices... One, (I believe the Native American Church has a written policy that only allows membership by those that can verify their lineage and are registered by the Feds a part or wholly Native American... The other, the Peyote Way Church, offers membership to all sincere folks, regardless of native bloodline.... Let me strive to ask you to study up on the RRFA: The Clinton bill that all the spiritual practioners have cited as legal justification to utilize entheogens within a spiritual context... It is a truly fascinating read and a key diagram to explain both your religious freedoms as well as the onus on the government in regards to limiting any given practice.... Pay close attention to the Case of Bronfman, who started and Ayahuasca branch of the UDV in Arizona... That case went before the Supreme court and the government basically got slammed. It will undoubtedly go down in the annals as a righteous blow for religious practitioners throughout AmeriKKKa, because in essence, the guv now has to PROVE that an entheo using group will cause damage to society or,,, the government must allow the 'church' their sacrament...........I wish you well, as you could concievably be headed down a quite rewarding path..........
I was told by Mr. "Flaming Eagle" Mooney that I was welcome to join his church (The N.A.C.)
I was also told by the "Peyote Way Church of God" that'd they'd be glad for me to join, I sent $60 to their church in AZ ($50 membership dues + $10 donation)
I encourage anybody who has an interest in psychoactive cacti, be it Lophophora or Trichocereus, or a person who wishs to grow and/or eat Peyote, to contact the above organizations, it not only protects you from law enforcement, but it also will probably give you a better unstanding of entheogens and a new perspective on spirituality.
I would like y'all to know that the point of me joining this church is NOT to ingest Peyote, I would indeed like to ingest Peyote one day, but that is not my intent in joining the churchs. My intent is to learn from the people who are closest to the cactus and the Great Spirit. I just wanted y'all to know that this is a serious spiritual path I have choosen to take and certainly NOT just an excuse to "trip out", I would like to see Peyote growing happily rather than in my stomach... my favorite qoute on the Peyoteway.org site is- "As long as Peyote is an endangered species, it is more blessed to grow the Holy Sacrament than to consume it." I just love that! and thats exactly how I feel about it, too!!!
QuoteYou ever research the huichol Indians of Mexico? Peyote plays a big part in their sspiritual/social/medical way of life. Anyway, they make a pilgrimage every year that I'm guessing would be right up your alley, if'n you were of mind for such an adventure on the wild side.
That sounds really interesting.
Do you think they'd let me go with them?
You would have to meet some folks in Mexico who would make that decision. Maybe develop a relationship first.
These days, the trip is made by vehicle, as too much land is fenced in. A person with a pickup truck or car would prolly be seen as beneficial to the group.
Puerto Vallerta is a good place to start. Many huicholes live north of there. Day trips are possible to Nayarit. Huichol shamen do make it into vallerta from time to time, visiting the shops that sell their art.
toostoned and I had talked about visiting the huicholes before his untimely demise. I know he'd gone up to a village in Nayarit at least once.
lw
I got a van so.... ?
What ever happened to toostoned, if you don't mind me asking?
Tao rest his soul.
I'm guessing you would prolly come in handy for the traveling huichols. That is, if you pass their sniff test.
Toostoned apparently died from huffing dust off.
lw
What's the test?
That's really sad about toostoned.
R.I.P. toostoned.
I said "their" test not mine. I'm guessing it comes down to how they perceive your intentions.
Maybe a visit one year gets you an invite to travel the next. But I'm just conjecturing at this point.
lw
Join Peyoteway.org church!
It's awesome!!!
//http://www.peyoteway.org/faq.htm
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"I recently found out I have some Native American in me.
I'd like to join the N.A.C.
How would I go about doing this?
What would be the best book to get? Is there a Native American Church Bible or Peyotism Bible? Or something of the sort?
First off yuo need to be able to prove you have real Native American blood in you which would require at least some DNA to prove so. Just saying you have native Blood does not prove anything to the Church. Anyone could say so, but it has to be proven. A drivers license or birth certificate would not prove you are Native American .
The peyotist Bible is Weston Labarre's book, "The Peyote Cult." It is the definitive book of the peyotl religion in use by the NAC to set up their structures and charters for their new branches of their church.
And your Indian blood has to be at least 1/4 Indian to be accepted into their churches. The book was written by anthropologist Weston LaBarre, who along with ethnobotanist, Dick Schultes, in the mid 1930s, were initiated into the Native American Church in Oklahoma through their professors at Harvard University in Mass., and Duke University in the Carolina's, respectively.
Later Schultes went on to collect the first specimens of P. cubensis, P. caerulescens, P. mexicana and Panaeolus sphinctrinus in Oaxaca.
Both LaBarre and Schultes only ate peyote two times and never again.
Below are several books on Peyote.
This one below was first published in 1959, then again in 1964, and later in 1969 with a new forward by Weston LaBarre. This one I am posting is the fourth edition, although I had an original with his autograph to me.
Here is LaBarre's classic work,
The Peyote Cult.
[attachment=2:nre5nn2l]LaBarres_peyote_cult1abc.jpg[/attachment:nre5nn2l]
And LaBarre's 2nd great book on Peyote and other origins of entheogenic plants,
The Ghost Dance: The Origin of Religions[attachment=1:nre5nn2l]labarres_ghost_dance1abc.jpg[/attachment:nre5nn2l]
THE WRITINGS OF WESTON LABARRE:
La Barre, Weston. 1938a. The Peyote Cult. Yale Pub Anthrop vol 19.
------. 1938b. Native American beers. American Anthropologist vol. 40:224-237.
------. 1939. Note on Richard Schultes and the appeal of peyote. American Anthropologist vol. 41:340-343.
------. 1970. Ghost Dance: the Origins of Religion. Doubleday. Garden City.
------. 1972. Hallucinogens and the shamanic origins of religion. In: Furst, Peter T. (Ed.) Flesh of the Gods:261-294. Praeger Publishers.
A study proposing the psychological and cultural matrix of shamanic innovation which presents evidence of the major role hallucinogens played in shamanic ecstacy.
------. 1975. Anthropological perspectives on hallucination and hallucinogens. In: Siegel, Ronald K. and Louis Jolyon West (Eds.). Hallucinations: Behavior, Experience and Theory:9-52. John Wiley & Sons. New York.
This article discusses various states of hallucinosis which occur from the ingestion of old world and new world entheogenic plants. Their various use and shamanic origins are also described.
------. 1979a. Psychedelics galore. Duke University Letters no. 4. Duke University, Durham, North Carolina. 2pp. December 13.
A brief list of numerous entheogenic plants is presented.
------. 1979b. Shamanic origins of religion and medicine. Journal of Psychedelic Drugs vol. 11(2):7-11. January-June.
------. 1981. (Bk. Rev.). Journal of Psychedelic Drugs vol. 13(1):105. January-March.
A Review of R. E. Schultes and Albert Hofmann's "Plants of the Gods."
------. 1988. (Bk. Rev.). Journal of Ethnobiology vol. 8(2):221-222.
A Review of R. Gordon Wasson's "Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion."
------. 1990. My friend Gordon. In: Thomas J. Riedlinger (ed.) The Sacred Mushroom Seeker: Essays for R. Gordon Wasson:147-150. Dioscorides Press. Portland, Oregon. Ethnomycological Studies No. 11.
La Barre reminisces over his memories of R. Gordon Wasson.
And now an image of several peyote books, all autographed to me except "Mescal and the Mechanisms of Hallucinations." Observe the buttons on the books, baby ones and larger ones on the candle holder made of wood.
[attachment=0:nre5nn2l]peyotebooks2abc.jpg[/attachment:nre5nn2l]
Well this apparently only lets me post three images in a post so I have to reply to print the other images.
The book, The peyote Cult is out of print and is usually available at times on Ebay for a price range of form $50.00 to $150.00 for a 4th to 1st edition.
boomer2
Another newer book on Peyote by Omar C. Steward published in 1978 as vol. 121 of the Civilizations of American Indians series.
[attachment=1:2hz9vq02]peyote_religion_by_omar_c_stewart1abc.jpg[/attachment:2hz9vq02]
And
Here Is Trouts book on the chemical compounds found in Peyote and other mescaline containing cacti.
[attachment=0:2hz9vq02]troutscactibookcover1abc.jpg[/attachment:2hz9vq02]
boomer2
Wow thanks for those awesome posts!
Join Peyoteway.org y'all!
http://www.peyoteway.org/Contact%20us.htm (http://www.peyoteway.org/Contact%20us.htm)
That paper from that site will not holdup in court.
Be realistic. playing a game to get a certificate off of the internet does not make you a member of the Native American Church. or give you the legal right to consume peyote. It certainly does not legitimize you in the eyes of the law or in the eyes of the peyotists whose religion whom you would be intruding on under false pretenses.
boomer
Being dist honest does not do the peyote the justice for which is it there for.
Congrats, Teo.
It appears that you have it all figured out.... :cool2
lw
Shoot, I was I had it all figured out... I don't think I've got a thing figured out!
Join Peyoteway.org y'all!
Just email the lady at Peyote Way Church of God and tell her you want to become a member!
Then send a letter!
You'll receive a certificate stating that you are a "bona-fide" religous user of Lophophora williamsii "Peyote" and that your cultivation and use of "Peyote" is an inseperable part of your spiritual practices.
http://www.peyoteway.org/faq.htm (http://www.peyoteway.org/faq.htm)
http://www.peyoteway.org/Contact%20us.htm (http://www.peyoteway.org/Contact%20us.htm)
QuoteThat paper from that site will not holdup in court.
Actually some members have already been to court and due to their memebership in the church and status as "bona-fide" religous users of Peyote didn't get in one bit of trouble.
QuoteBe realistic. playing a game to get a certificate off of the internet does not make you a member of the Native American Church. or give you the legal right to consume peyote. It certainly does not legitimize you in the eyes of the law or in the eyes of the peyotists whose religion whom you would be intruding on under false pretenses.
It's not a game. This is my religon and my church. The Peyotist at Peyote Way Chruch are very nice people, and I am a member of their church. It does give you excemption from the Peyote laws in 5 states, however, I believe if you were a member of the church and caught in a state which does not protect non-native users, it would be thrown out in court and likely get the laws in that state changed. I donno what the whole thing about "intruding on under false pretenses" means, but I won't comment. I'm a serious spiritual user of Peyote (Even tho I've not eaten it yet and probably won't for some time) and a serious member of the Peyote Way Church of God.
Quote"As long as the Blessed Sacrament is scarce (endangered) it is more holy to cultivate it, than it is to consume it".
Far be it for me to say I have any resoned insights into the way the law would look at things, but I am leaning toward the belief that since the Bronfman - Aya case, that the Guv might just not be willing to bother with a prosecution case if the practitioner was in fact a registered member of a recognized 'religious entheo church'... As far as figuring out someones 'bona fides',,,not for me to say........
Exactly!
If you believe your gonna get in trouble for Peyote when your a member of a legit Peyote church, then you just haven't read up on the history of the cases!
They don't wanna fuck with it, cause if they do... and I win... then it's like everybody in my state knows all they have to do is join they church and they can have all the peyote they want!
The relgious users ALWAYS win the cases too!
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"It's not a game. This is my religon and my church. The Peyotist at Peyote Way Chruch are very nice people, and I am a member of their church. It does give you excemption from the Peyote laws in 5 states, however, I believe if you were a member of the church and caught in a state which does not protect non-native users, it would be thrown out in court and likely get the laws in that state changed. I donno what the whole thing about "intruding on under false pretenses" means, but I won't comment. I'm a serious spiritual user of Peyote (Even tho I've not eaten it yet and probably won't for some time) and a serious member of the Peyote Way Church of God.
I'm not sure what that means. I don't see how you can be a serious, religious user of peyote until you're, well, a
user of peyote.
And I believe that "under false pretenses" means that you're more interested in the sacrament than the religion -- a distinction that is meaningless to the serious peyotist, as the sacrament is inextricably tied to the religion. In your case, there seems little "religion" there, in any formal sense.
(Also, you said in another post that the religious users always win. That is
seriously ignoring current case law. That also presupposes that you would be considered "serious" in the eyes of the law, which is seriously doubtful. There are criteria that the courts use to determine if something is a serious religion, and you don't appear to meet many, if any, of those criteria. I think I've posted the criteria here a few years ago (this came from a friend who has established a bone-fide, entheogen-using religion):
a A distinct legal existence
b A recognized creed and form of worship
c A definite and distinct ecclesiastical government
d A formal code of doctrine and discipline
e A distinct religious history
f A membership not associated with any other church or denomination
g An organization of ordained ministers
h Ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed studies
i A literature of its own
j Established places of worship
k Regular congregations
l Regular religious services
m Sunday schools for religious instruction of the young
n Schools for the preparation of its ministers.
Now, you can argue 'till the cows come home that this list isn't "right" and that a solitary drug user should be able to qualify for protected use as much as the member of an established congregation, but the above is the current situation, like it or not. I'm not saying that every religion must meet at 14 criteria, but this is the playing field. To date, a religious exemption to the Controlled Substances Act has never been granted to someone who didn't belong to an established religion (i.e., one that met many of the above criteria).
Which of the criteria above does your new-found religion meet?)
And just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be
against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?
Do you know anything about the Peyote Way Church of God?
Please research them.
QuoteAnd just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?
What drug use do you mean? Do these religons not use entheogen plant drugs?
I personally am agaist drug use such as heroin, meth, cocaine, etc.
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"QuoteAnd just a random observation: have you noticed that the established entheogenic religions -- UdV, NAC, Santo Daime, etc. -- all seem to be against drug use? Would you be willing to give up your drug use to join this religion?
What drug use do you mean? Do these religons not use entheogen plant drugs?
No, they don't. The NAC uses peyote as a sacrament. The Santo Daime uses daime. But they don't use entheogen plant drugs. And that's one reason they shouldn't be seen as a way of getting entheogenic drugs: they don't use them.
This may be a little hard to understand, but consider this: The NAC uses peyote,
not cacti like San Pedro (which contains the same alkaloids). Until one fundamentally understands (and feels) this, I don't see how one can consider one's self a serious adherent of the religion.
I think thats a bullshit remark!
These religions DO use entheogenic plant drugs!
QuoteAnd that's one reason they shouldn't be seen as a way of getting entheogenic drugs: they don't use them.
Did you miss when I said "I've never taken Peyote"? I've never taken it because I respect it. Obvisouly I'm not using this to trip Peyote... if I was, wouldn't I be eating it?
I have never done true Ayahuasca ethier.
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"I think thats a bullshit remark!
These religions DO use entheogenic plant drugs!
Well, you're free to have that opinion, but keep in mind that what you're taking exception to isn't
my bullshit -- it is the belief of the religions themselves. You're taking exception to their fundamental belief. :e_biggrin:
So you don't meet with them, worship with them, partake of their sacrament, or share their fundamental beliefs. Forgive me if I'm having trouble grokking in just what way you're a member of the religion.
Oh, that's right. You have a piece of paper.
QuoteSo you don't meet with them, worship with them, partake of their sacrament, or share their fundamental beliefs.
Who said that? I do all those things. I just haven't eaten Peyote yet. I'd rather see the Peyote happy and growing then have it sitting in my stomach!
Why would I want to pay a donation to take a spirit walk when I can do it on my own any day for free?
lw
Oh, I forgot....... You got a piece of paper with your spirit walk. :smoke2:
Btw, I have nothing against the Peyote Way folks. Leonard used to post here once in awhile.
lw
I'm not sure if you have seen this article, but it's a great read.
The quote below highlights a commonality found in various psychedelic practices.
By ingesting an active sacrament, a person enters the "adult" world of spirituality and confronts some realities of the human condition ignored in religions centered around symbolic sacraments. So, in this context, users of symbolic sacraments might be viewed as children imitating adult behavior.
My personal experience shares many similarities with the description below.
http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg29.htm (http://www.lectlaw.com/files/drg29.htm)
........ The Peyote road is the path chosen by members of the church. In the
imagery of some Peyotists, two roads diverge at a junction. The profane
road, paved and wide, with its worldly passions and temptations, is
considered to be an unholy road which leads to trouble. The alternative
is the Peyote road, a narrow unpaved path surrounded by a wilderness of
pristine beauty. All Peyotists travel this way, but each must journey
alone, for it is the road of one's own life and wisdom. In the Christian
sense, it is the road to salvation. Ethically, it is a path of sobriety
(a major step for most Indians), industry, care of the family, and
brotherly love. Its symbol is a narrow groove on top of a crescent-
shaped earthen altar that encircles the west end of the fireplace.
Rather than a straight and narrow path, it is a curved path all the way,
but the curve on the crescent altar is constant, never-varying, and so
in a sense straight. The road has not been easy for me, nor was it meant
to be. Peyotists say that up to the mid-mark of human life the Peyote
road is uphill. This is indicated by the earthen altar, which slopes up
to the center of the crescent, where the Peyote chief which is a
specially shaped Peyote plant placed on the altar by the leader of the
ceremony is set. To reach the downhill side of the Peyote chief one has
to go through (accept) Peyote, for it is considered impossible to go
around or over the sacred plant placed on top of the altar. The downhill
road symbolizes the latter half of one's life, the easier half.
Those early years of my uphill journey were difficult because of my
preoccupation with death. This morbid obsession began when I attended my
third Peyote meeting. Several people present were ill, and I feared the
spread of disease by the communal sharing of the spoon to eat Peyote and
the cup to drink Peyote tea. Two voices within me began to talk about my
death, one stressing its reality and the other constantly agreeing; the
voice-exchange continued until my awareness of death became intense. I
had been asleep to my death for thirty-one years; it now became an
intimate reality. At a meeting that I attended, a wise elderly Peyotist
said, "You can see yourself in this fireplace; you can see what kind of
man you are. If you accept what you see, you will be all right and stay
in this religion; if you don't accept what you see, you will never come
back. " More than one man attending a meeting has thought himself
attending his own funeral; he believed that he saw his own body being
brought into the tipi instead of the morning foodÂthe church became for
him a funeral parlor. After such an experience, he may or may not want
to return to the Peyote religion. That night I arrived at the junction
and chose the Peyote road, which included the risk of sickness and the
anguish of mental torment. Yet, in the sense that "many are called, but
few are chosen," Peyotists say that "Peyote chooses you, you don't
choose it."
After that traumatic night I was aware of death every day for a period
of about 3 years. It was not an absorbing fixation, but it was a daily
reminder, my Dark Night of the Soul. I was often awakened to the image
of a black whiplash across my back and the words resounding in my ears:
"You are some day going to die." At a Peyote meeting, when I told the
members of my concern about death, one of the leaders stood up and said
that I was off to a good beginning in the Peyote way. During a meeting 3
years later I simply became aware that it was useless worrying about the
inevitable. To be uneasy is the original derivation of the word disease;
my anxiety and worry (uncertainty) about my certain death was a disease.
Perhaps there is in each of us a level where the knowledge of our own
death is so strange that it comes as a shock........
And then there is this.....
I was blown away upon discovering the passage below. The story related is clearly a variation of the folk song "The Monkey and the Engineer." The Grateful Dead played that tune three or four times over the course of their career. I was lucky enough to catch one of them and it was a most profound experience in my psychedelic upbringing..
.............. Often their humorous stories have a sober message; an example is the
tale of the "monkey in the fireplace," which warns against treating the
ceremony as play. The story is as follows: "No monkey business allowed
in this fireplace, but everything is in this fireplace, so the monkey
must be in there too. This engineer on the railroad had a monkey who
watched everything he did. The engineer stopped the train and went in
the depot to get a cup of coffee. When he heard the toot-toot outside,
he ran out and saw the monkey taking this train down the track. Hey,
this monkey was really having fun. He was driving the train just like a
man. He was really driving that train fast. He missed the curve and the
train went off the track, but the monkey, he jumped out of the window
and grabbed hold of a tree and was saved. He watched the train go into
the ditch."
We both laughed; then he became serious and said: "But all the people
and children on the train were killed. That's the way the monkey is: if
the man don't watch close, he will miss the curve; the monkey, he's a
monkey." Then this Indian Peyotist slowly pointed to the fireplace and
said: "That monkey will kill you if you don't watch him; no monkey
business allowed in this fireplace." Symbolically, this story indicates
that if you are careless on the curve of the Peyote road, you will fall
from the altar and burn up in the fireplace......
The explanation above gives the meaning of the parable on one level, but I believe there are more than one levels explored. For example, the Dead have always used images of the steam locomotive rolling down the tracks in their songs. Their group zeitgeist has many similarities with the image of a train being pulled by a locomotive engine. And I think that image is appropriate for the action at hand...
lw
I also went through an intense awareness of death / contemplation of mortality issues during my psychedelic sojourn.. I was in the military (not an especially good state to be in for ones psyche imho) I was stationed in a region where we did not have acess to Hoffmans' medicine. Senor perservered and became the proud recipient of some airmailed California manna... I was deep into the session, when I looked out a second story window and noticed a group of 4-5 guys standing around a small boulder out on the ground.. I felt compelled to go be with them.. I left the building and began approaching them.. I knew a couple of the fellows, and so I thought maybe they were standing around talking and sharing a pipe.. As I drew nearer, an intense and ominous feeling began filling me.. I sensed a deep and profound dread.. The closer I came to the group, the more uncomfortable I became.. My 'observer self' was on high alert, telling me I was about to be shocked... I was in a state of high anxiety though determined to 'find the answer'... When I stepped into the cicle of guys, I was shot through with the realiziation that I was going to witness my own demise; that I was going to see that the fellows were circling around my inert body and that they had come upon me after I had OD'ed from my excessive 'H' habit.... I looked downward, toward the small boulder, expecting to find 'the doorway/my dead body/the shaft of white light/whatever!! I was filled with trepidation and yet determined to face the consequence of my own chosen path.... "Course, all that happened was a guy turned to me and nodded whilst handing me the pipe they were sharing.. There was nothing on the ground except that couple hundred lb boulder... I politely puffed silently and then returned to the barracks... It took me several days to acknowledge that I had been shown that I was on a destructive path with the 'H', and that I needed to address the issue, which I did do, in short oreder.... The lesson I learned was that although we might consider ourselves cavalier warriors; it takes a sense of acute and purposeful awareness of our treading on 'the path'... Thats where the learning comes from... Or, at least that's how it was for me......sal
appreciated that, senor, thanks for sharing that story. Could feel every word, must be the authenticity that rings through.
Wow great posts guys!
Thanks!
Thanks Judith, thanks Teot: Glad you liked the tale... I'm fairly certain that most of us that have partaken of 'altering substances' have, at times, experienced things of a like nature.... It's always been an opiniony as to what group of adventuof mine that alot of the psychological stress issues in regards to entheo-journies has to do with the negative pre-conditioning that most of society lamblasts us with... Not good for the psyche to try and integrate experiences when 'the powers' are constantly telling us that mental sojourns and enlightenment seeking are bad/antisocial/wrong etc... I'd expect that if there were ever a study of 'user groups' and 'negative experiences'; it would be those that come from societies that vilify such mental gymnastics,,,they'd be the ones prone to having less than rewarding times.... The mental baggage that society places on a person undoubtedly has consequences... Has anyone noticed how those that are from a society that does not act negatively to entheo journeys, it's those groups of travelers that don't seem to report 'bad trips' and the like.... I say, throw off the societal chains... Easier said than done, to be sure, but.....highly rewarding imho......... :smoke1
"So, in this context, users of symbolic sacraments might be viewed as children imitating adult behavior."
Well put, brotherman!!
Btw, Teo......
There are many documented cases of the U$ gubmit NOT PERMITTING or strongly discouraging those accused of drug crimes from making a religious plea. :roll:
Don't let that piece of paper become your ghost dance shirt, bruddah.....
http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resourc ... /68_07.htm (http://www.pbs.org/weta/thewest/resources/archives/eight/68_07.htm)
lw
:lol: :lol: ----- Piece of paper - Ghost Dance Shirt :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ---Oh my, we have senor guffawing like a loon again while supposedly maintaining a sense of decorum at the public library...
QuoteThere are many documented cases of the U$ gubmit NOT PERMITTING or strongly discouraging those accused of drug crimes from making a religious plea.
Now why do you think that is???
I think it is because once the everyday joe is allowed in front of a jury to make that plea, the law goes out the window. ANd the gubmit will not risk that.
lw
Is that what you think the government thinks... or is that what you think?
Cause I think that, thats a load of bullshit.
Please explain.
lw
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"Wow great posts guys!
Thanks!
Here is a link from google to 29,000 court cases against peyote. A majority of state rights against Federal and of course the Feds always have their wins.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Peyote+C ... =firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=Peyote+Court+Cases&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
You might want to read these.
I think anonymous was 100% right on with everything he posted here in this thread.
boomer2
Teo: You appear to be half-way home. Maybe The Hawaii Cannabis Ministry can help you cover the rest of the bases. :smoke2:
http://www.thc-ministry.org/ (http://www.thc-ministry.org/)
Of course, its only for bone fide adults, so you might want to get ganja learner's permit, psychedelic junior acolyte certificate or holy smoke merit badge in the interim.
lw
Haha, ok. Sure.
Here's a pretty good read on the subject at hand.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-02-1 ... oly-crop/1 (http://www.dallasobserver.com/2008-02-14/news/texas-peyote-hunters-struggle-to-find-a-vanishing-holy-crop/1)
And these folks might be interesting to meet/know..
http://www.nativeamericanchurch.net/nac.htm (http://www.nativeamericanchurch.net/nac.htm)
lw
Ah, thanks for posting LW.
Anybody got anymore link? Info? Comments? Tips?
So, just to recap.....
We have a young community member who has recently joined the Peyote Way Church. While he's never met the congregation in person, nor consumed their sacrament, he wants us all to join, too. However, we have ascertained that peyote is scarce and getting more scarce every year. Why would we want to consume a plant so rare? It just doesn't make sense to me. Especially when their are many other active sacraments available. Unless the piece of paper is what's important to the person in question. Otherwise, I see no reason to bother grandpa peyote in this way.
What's wrong with this picture? What kind of person feels the need to prostalatize their chosen religion? Usually one that is unsure of their decision to join said religion.....
lw
QuoteWe have a young community member who has recently joined the Peyote Way Church. While he's never met the congregation in person, nor consumed their sacrament, he wants us all to join, too. However, we have ascertained that peyote is scarce and getting more scarce every year. Why would we want to consume a plant so rare? It just doesn't make sense to me. Especially when their are many other active sacraments available.
Have you even read my post? That's the very reason I've never eaten Peyote! I'd rather see it growing happily than have it sitting in my stomach!
Join Peyoteway.org! :)
The Peyote Way people consume peyote. Why join their church if you don't plan on walking their walk?
lw
I DO!
I just haven't YET!
You really should check out their site-
Quote"As long as the Holy cactus is endangered, it is more holy to grow than to consume".
Thats staight from the site!
Teo: The first time I checked out their site was prolly 8 years ago.
lw
teo: If you study and compare the NAC with other societies using active sacrament, you will realize there are some consistent practices. Most involve the consumption of active sacrament in a group setting stressing individual growth and understanding. For example, many join the NAC as a way to quit alcohol and begin living in a healthier manner. Believe it or not, there are groups in this world doing basically the same thing as the NAC, without the peace of mind of a piece of paper, nor the desire to advertise their activities.
My journey with the active sacrament began over 25 years ago at my first Grateful Dead show. Those lessons continue to this day. While I wish you well on your personal journey, please keep in mind that it is YOUR journey. Feel free to keep us posted, but don't expect us to follow you. We must each make our own way, whether that be the peyote, mushroom or lsd way.
Don't get me wrong, I would feel honored to one day participate in a bone fide NAC ceremony. But I will not go out of my way to try and make it a reality nor do I expect it to ever happen. :smoke1
lw
Teo, i don't want to be grilling you, because i've been away from this site for years and therefore don't want to appear disrespectful or cocky, but there is a ONE MONTH period between this statement:
"I recently found out I have some Native American in me. I'd like to join the N.A.C. How would I go about doing this?" (Sept 23),
and this one:
"It's not a game. This is my religon and my church. The Peyotist at Peyote Way Chruch are very nice people, and I am a member of their church." (Oct 30)
If you step back and think about it, is it surprising people are having trouble taking you seriously with the peyote church thing? Why don't you let it grow on you a bit and see how you feel, and let us know. THAT would be interesting.
also, have you been to the site, or seen a ceremony of some kind?
I've been to the site, of course.
Thank you for being nice about that, you made a very good point.
I have no problem with people telling me I'm wrong when they are as nice about it as RedDragon was.
:shock: --- Red Dragon :smoke:3 --- Been quite a long time... Glad to see you are still around.. Hope all is well at your end....sal
Join Peyoteway.org y'all!
//http://www.peyoteway.org/faq.htm
Joining is easy!
Teo: correction: by "checking out the site" i meant the actual physical site.
And speaking about the website, i've been checking it out. I noticed that they're planning on building a road through it: http://www.peyoteway.org/i10bypass.htm (http://www.peyoteway.org/i10bypass.htm) Given that the Peyote Way people probably loved the site for the main reason that it was very quiet and natural, i'm sure they probably upset about that.
About the legality of using peyote in Arizona, the site has this to say in the FAQ: "10. Q:If one were to join your group, would they be able to use peyote without legal repercussions?
A:The present political and social climate at this time, in this country is such that you may be arrested for your religious practice of Peyotism. The only states that have legal provisions regarding the bonafide religious use of Peyote by non-Indians are Arizona, Colorado, New Mexico, Nevada and Oregon. In these states, the Church’s “Declaration of Religious Belief†should protect an individual in possession of Peyote."
I think they are helpful to supply this avenue for people to experience peyote, given that the "spirit walks" are free (voluntary donations) and that you have access to these adepts of the peyote experience either during or after the session, for help and support.
One thing i do not understand about their beliefs is why they think it is unhealthy to drink "hot beverages"?! Here: http://www.peyoteway.org/wisdom.html (http://www.peyoteway.org/wisdom.html) it says: "9. And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly." Can anyone comment on that? Teo?
To me the Peyoteway has always seemed like Mormonism. I thought the sacraments were the antithesis of organized religon. Do we need 89 sections of rules? Do we need hirerarcy? The sacraments seem to say that we are all the universe and have access to all the wisdom we need.
Just my 2 cents, a day late and a dollar short as always.
Quote from: "JRL"Do we need 89 sections of rules? Do we need hirerarcy?
If you want to be recognized by the government as a bona fide religion, you probably do! They're kind of opinionated on what constitutes a religion.
QuoteOne thing i do not understand about their beliefs is why they think it is unhealthy to drink "hot beverages"?! Here: http://www.peyoteway.org/wisdom.html (http://www.peyoteway.org/wisdom.html) it says: "9. And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly." Can anyone comment on that? Teo?
That's beyond me, they adopted that one code or passage or whatever and that's the only thing I really don't like...
Thank God it's only a couple paragraphs.
QuoteIf you want to be recognized by the government as a bona fide religion, you probably do! They're kind of opinionated on what constitutes a religion.
You probably just nailed it. I bet they had to pick some sort of religous document so that they seem more legitimate.
I personally would have choose the "Tao Teh Ching" instead...