Hey everyone!
Have any of you seen Chaliponga seeds? My amigo in Peru says he collected some, and that they look almost identical to B. caapi seeds. Is this true? Does anyone have any photos or information about germinating these seeds? I can't find any information online, so I'm hoping you guys can help me out. Thanks!
Peace,
Scott
Theres a thread at thenook and one at SAB about them. The one at SAB has more/better info. I think a lot about the plant looks like caapi, and i believe this includes the seeds. Ill try and dig the thread up later, but it shouldnt be to hard to find as its pretty recent.
Theres also a vendor from Argentina (i think) that has seeds. But i think the thread at thenook is about that vendor. And people have had little luck with the more recent batches of seeds. Maybe they are to old now. If you get fresh seeds, i would grab them. But dont over stock, because they may not have to long a viability. And defiantly let us know if when you have the available.
look on ebay
http://search.stores.ebay.com/Soul-Sham ... 96QQsofpZ0 (http://search.stores.ebay.com/Soul-Shaman-Market__W0QQfcdZ2QQfclZ4QQfrppZ30QQfrtsZ30QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsaselZ99817196QQsofpZ0)
the chaliponga plant has NEVER been known to go to seed, which is really strange, but we've never seen it happen... so i'm very skeptical about anyone saying they have the seeds...
It seeds somehow.
I'm sure it does in its native habitat.
Yes, you'd think so... but this plant has never been seen to go to seed...
In habitat? Where has it never been seen to set seed?
Here in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower.
It makes you wonder. Some plants only flower every so many years. There is the century plant which may go 30 years or more before flowering. Many others do not flower every year but only every so often, perhaps depending on environmental clues. Bamboo goes many years and flowers all at once and then dies.
QuoteHere in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower.
Well why aren't you shipping us cuttings then? If you live there and see these plants all the time, than PLEASE help us all out and mail somebody a few 100 cuttings!
Are your sure it's real Diplopterys? Have you ever brewed with it?
You must be kidding...
This is Alan Shoemaker, Mariella´s husband. I am the one that first wrote that it was called ¨chaliponga¨NOT ¨chagropunga¨.
here in Loretto, the region where Iquitos is located, it is knows as ¨huambisa¨, named after the tribe, which is located near the border to Ecuador.
No one has seen it in seed, yet.
No I'm not kidding.
I personally know people who have obtained their Diplopterys plants from the germination of seeds.
I'm not saying your plants don't seed, but they must somewhere...
If this plant is all around you and it is truly Diplopterys, you really should consider mailing some people in the community cuttings, we desperatly seek this plant!
We know so very little about this amazing botanical! I wish I could get my hands on a couple plants! Foliage is easy to come by, but dead plants are no use to me!
hello marielle & alan!!!
hi@all!!!
Coincedense possibly, that i have found you all here. I have the feeling i was brought. ;)
Very interesting read alan... u are right on everything u said from which i have heard/know.
I must say u live in one of the most beautiful places on earth. I do not no if i will be able to see it in this lifetime, but I would be sure glad, just to know some people from that part of the earth.
It is strange that the plant does not make any seeds. I think Stoney might be on to sumthin too... maybe?
Certainly each and every plant have their distinctive way of reproducing.
"what came first, the chicken or the egg???"lol
gonna keep my eye on this thread... hope to see more thoughts...
Most likely they are growing B. caapi, not DCabrerana. The leaves of B. Caapi are very similar to DCabrerana as well... so much so that the chali was initially misidentified as Banisteriopsis Rusbyana.
it's far superior to pviridis, especially because it's a vine and so grows really quickly. With the PV you have to wait 4 years to harvest and then you'll need every leaf from the bush to cook a bash. DC cuttings are very sensitive but we've been quite sucessful in putting in a plantation with leaves 10 inches long.
I don't know about shipping live plants but will check into it. My friend shipped to Moscow, took 12 days but when the cutting got there they were growing tiny white roots.
QuoteI don't know about shipping live plants but will check into it. My friend shipped to Moscow, took 12 days but when the cutting got there they were growing tiny white roots.
Please, please, please help us bring this amazing plant into the community you wonderful, wonderful people!
Alan, Mariella thank you both very much!
Alan, is there any way to express mail a living chali leaf fast enuff to arrive in USA fresh enuff to root?
If not, I would be thrilled to buy a rooted cutting, verdad...
Anyway you can get a growing plant into America, Australia and Europe would be AMAZING!!!
Many of us have waited on this plant for a VERY, VERY long time!
I suggest you ship 5-25 living Diplopterys plants to multiple people in America and around the world!
Attempt to pick the plants which are most potent, with the best genetics so we may propagate this amazing plant all over the world!!!
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"QuoteHere in the jungles of Peru and Ecuador, neither I nor anyone that I have met has ever seen it flower.
Well why aren't you shipping us cuttings then? If you live there and see these plants all the time, than PLEASE help us all out and mail somebody a few 100 cuttings!
Alan gave me some cuttings from his garden a few years back when I was in Peru. I, er, "brought" them back through customs, but alas, I was unable to get them to root.
Diolopterys is a vey difficult plant (unlike, for example, caapi, which is very easy to root).
QuoteAre your sure it's real Diplopterys? Have you ever brewed with it?
LoL!
Hey I didn't know who he was, geeze!
It may be difficult, but it's not impossible! We NEED to grow Diplopterys!
Somebody NEEDS to mail a big huge well rooted plant! It'll totally be worth it!
I'll go do it myself if I have to!!!
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"No I'm not kidding.
I personally know people who have obtained their Diplopterys plants from the germination of seeds.
How can you be sure? For one thing, the misidentification of plants is pretty common. I once paid a
lot of money for a Diplop that, when grown out, was in fact a caapi. I also once bought a chacruna that, when grown out to flower, turned out to be Psychotria alba. And these purchases were from reputable vendors.
So how do you know?
QuoteWe know so very little about this amazing botanical!
What do you mean by "we?" Some people know quite a lot about it. And if you know so little, how do you know it's amazing?
QuoteHow can you be sure? For one thing, the misidentification of plants is pretty common. I once paid a lot of money for a Diplop that, when grown out, was in fact a caapi. I also once bought a chacruna that, when grown out to flower, turned out to be Psychotria alba. And these purchases were from reputable vendors.
So how do you know?
Ever heard of "Torsten" the owner of the Corroboree?
This guy knows his shit.
QuoteWhat do you mean by "we?" Some people know quite a lot about it. And if you know so little, how do you know it's amazing?
We as a community. I don't think anybody knows that much about it... at least not ENOUGH... but can you ever really know enough? The little I know... is that it's amazing!
Quote from: "dendro"Alan, is there any way to express mail a living chali leaf fast enuff to arrive in USA fresh enuff to root?
Do you think leaf propagation would work with chaliponga? It works well for chacruna, but I have no idea if it would work
for chaliponga (and, given the dificulty I've heard people have in rooting this plant, my guess is that it wouldn't work,
but it would be great if it did).
Quote from: "Teotzlcoatl"QuoteHow can you be sure? For one thing, the misidentification of plants is pretty common. I once paid a lot of money for a Diplop that, when grown out, was in fact a caapi. I also once bought a chacruna that, when grown out to flower, turned out to be Psychotria alba. And these purchases were from reputable vendors.
So how do you know?
Ever heard of "Torsten" the owner of the Corroboree?
Yes, I know Torsten. If he says that he has grown out chaliponga from seed, I would at least consider it seriously.
Although you originally said "people." Did you just mean "a person?"
QuoteWe as a community. I don't think anybody knows that much about it... at least not ENOUGH... but can you ever really know enough? The little I know... is that it's amazing!
Amazing in what way?
I don't believe chaliponga never flowers. All plants in the wild flower. All cultivated plants flower except a few cultivars such as kava, corn and so on. Some species of bamboo only flower every 100 years or longer. Someone watching that plant will tell you it never flowers, but it does. Their parents may never have seen it flower and even their grandparents. But someday it will flower. I believe it's the same with chaliponga.
Who says caapi is easy to root? It can be done if your tec is good but it's not as easy as p viridis, for example.
Chaliponga is also known as Oco-yage. "Oco" is indigenous for "water". It's a water loving plant and so that's the way that I've been able to get them growing and once they get going, they really take off, growing quickly and sending out many many vines.
I'll ask my friend if he thinks he can ship some live cuttings... but I don't think he can get them out of Peru, much less entered into another country.
I'm in complete agreement that it must flower at some point... but as I said, no one that I have spoken with in 16 years here has seen it in flower. I've got another really beautiful plant in my garden here.. have no idea what it is, but it grows up the side of my wall, flowers, drops a few seeds and dies. then the seeds take and it keeps repeating this cycle over and over... bizarre plant.
Quote from: "Stonehenge"Who says caapi is easy to root? It can be done if your tec is good but it's not as easy as p viridis, for example.
Well, I'm no expert -- having only tried it twice -- but it rooted both times I tried. This was with fairly thick, fresh root.
I've rooted psychotria, but it took a long, long time. I had actually given up on it when it surprised me and finally rooted.
QuoteDo you think leaf propagation would work with chaliponga? It works well for chacruna, but I have no idea if it would work
for chaliponga (and, given the dificulty I've heard people have in rooting this plant, my guess is that it wouldn't work,
but it would be great if it did).
I bet if you can do it with Caapi you can do it with Diplopterys!
QuoteI'll ask my friend if he thinks he can ship some live cuttings... but I don't think he can get them out of Peru, much less entered into another country.
Somebody has got to do it! We would be forever greatful if you could just get a few potent clones out!
Mr and Mrs Shoemaker
please excuse teotzcoatl's behavior
it is not indicative of us all
he has been banned form several forums
for his behavior
I'm sorry if I have offended ethier of you Mr. & Mrs. Shoemaker.
Catfish, has Teo done something wrong in this thread which has not been already addressed? It does not seem fair to keep bringing up what may have happened elsewhere. Certain people are waiting for a slip so they can jump on him. If he does something wrong, then fine, but don't keep harping on old stuff if he's trying to do better now.
Teo, it's all up to you. Think before you speak.
Sorry Stone, and thanks.
Teotzlcoatl, no worries. I didn't think any offence was intended and certainly no offence was taken.
No certainly no offense was intented.
The boys over in Oz say Diplopterys flowers tho-//http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=17158&pid=192154&st=50&#entry192154
Here's what I just posted on the aussie forum:
to clear this up... I have never written that I have seen chaliponga in flower, because I haven't. I've been growing it for 10 years and have huge plants. They love very damp earth but will also grow in full sun with only rain, but the vines get very brittle and it doesn't grow very quickly. From one cutting in the ground, it sends out shoots and these too begin growing quickly. the original mother plant of chali was brought to Iquitos by the curandera Adela. She got it from the Huambisa tribe near the border of Ecuador about 40 years ago, so most all the chaliponga (huambisa) growing in Loreto have come from this Mother plant. Adela has also never seen it in flower.
Well there ya go... Just like the "P.C." "BlackBerg" pachanoi can't cross with itself, neither can this Diplopterys, because its genetically the same.
At least... that's my guess!
the curandero Percy Garcia is here in the office with me now and he's been working with chali since he was 11, has his own plants, and he also has never seen it in flower.
when we want plants to flower here in the jungle, we simply put new rich soil piled up around the base of the plant. I've tried that with chali but didn't work. Perhaps some of the people in other countries are correct, I'd love to know that it flowers, seems it would have to..
Hmm... what the hell is going on here?
I think we know so little about Diplopterys... I bet its some kind of non-flowering DMT Caapi! Might not even be Diplopterys!
I could totally see some strains of Caapi having DMT-like compounds in them! I think Diplopterys IS actually a kind of Caapi.
Well, you're not the only one to have thought that. You realize that when it was first given it's nomenclature, it was called "banisteropsis rusbyana". that held for years... and sometime around 20 years? ago someone recognized that it had been mis-classified and so it because dip.cabrerana....
Certainly looks like a caapi to me and most people couldn't tell the difference when looking at the leaves side by side...
Digging up and old thread.
Teotzlcoatl:
QuoteI could totally see some strains of Caapi having DMT-like compounds in them! I think Diplopterys IS actually a kind of Caapi.
Saying "strain of caapi" is confusing. You think this species is actually Banisteriopsis caapi? I doubt it. From the few pictures I have seen its certainly different. Where you call something a strain or a new species is an entirely human obsession
Banisteriopsis muricata is said to contain DMT in the leaves and stems. I recall that it was used to divine illnesses but I'm unable to find the article anymore.
more interesting Banisteriopsis species (//http://labs.plantbio.cornell.edu/cubl/emanv4p19.html)
Anyone know if the genus Diplopterys has any other members used as admixtures?
Sorry, I meant that it might be Banisteriopsis, not Caapi.
Well again, orginally it was placed in the Banisteriopsis genus. Why it was changed or placed there in the first place I don't know. JSTOR probably has that, but I no longer have a password.
It certainly has a different alkaloid profile, and while nomenclature is fun and useful and all that jazz, alkaloids are my main concern..and preservation
your right about getting cuttings going around