Spirit Plants - Discussion of sacred plants and other entheogens

People => The Mountain => Topic started by: judih on March 03, 2008, 10:44:25 PM

Title: Prof.: Psychotropic plants made Moses hear 'voices' at Mt Si
Post by: judih on March 03, 2008, 10:44:25 PM
Prof.: Psychotropic plants made Moses hear 'voices' at Mt Sinai

link: Ha'aretz, http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/960403.html (http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/960403.html)

"And all the people perceived the thunderings, and the lightnings, and the voice of the horn, and the mountain smoking." Thus the book of Exodus describes the impressive moment of the giving of the Torah on Mount Sinai.

The "perceiving of the voices" has been interpreted endlessly since these words were first written. When Professor Benny Shanon, professor of cognitive psychology at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, reads the verse, he recalls a powerful hallucinatory experience he had when he visited the Amazon and drank a potion made from a plant called ayahuasca.

"One of the things that happens when you drink the potion is a visual experience created via sounds," he says.
Shanon presents a provocative theory in an article published this week in the philosophy journal Time and Mind. The religious ceremonies of the Israelites included the use of psychotropic materials that can found in the Negev and Sinai, he says.

"I have no direct proof of this interpretation," and such proof cannot be expected, he says. However, "it seems logical that something was altered in people's consciousness. There are other stories in the Bible that mention the use of plants: for example, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden."

Shanon, former head of the Hebrew University psychology department, said his first experience with ayahuasca was in 1991 when he was invited to a religious ceremony in the northern Amazon in 1991 in Brazil.

"I experienced visions that had spiritual-religious connotations," he says.

Since that time, he has used it hundreds of times, and has published a book about the plant.

"Hypotheses have been around for 20 years connecting the beginning of religions with psychoactive materials," Shanon says. He believes the Israelites used two plants in Sinai and the Negev: one of them is wild rue, a hallucinogen used by the Bedoin to this day. However this plant is not identified with any plant mentioned in the Bible.

The acacia tree also has psychedelic properties, Shanon says, which the Israelites could have used. The acacia is mentioned frequently in the Bible, and was the type of wood of which the Ark of the Covenant was made. According to Shanon, he drank a potion prepared from a species of acacia while he was in South America, which caused similar experiences to those produced by the ayahuasca.

Shanon also sees signs of a hallucinogenic vision in the story of the burning bush. "Moses 'looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed,'" Shanon quotes from Exodus 3:2. Time passes differently when under the influence of the plant, he notes. "That's why Moses thought the bush was not consumed. It should have been burned in the time he thought had passed. And in that time, he heard God speaking to him."

"But not everyone who uses a plant like this brings the Torah," Shanon concedes. "For that, you have to be Moses."


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Well, folks, this is not the first time we've heard this suggestion, but it's a refreshing entry to find in the morning newspaper.

cheers,
judih
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on March 05, 2008, 12:51:13 PM
This one finally made the mainstream internet news.

Through the course of my life experiences, I have come to agree with theory that entheogenic substances have played a prominent roll in the development of religion here on earth.

And that's why I continue to be amazed that governments across the globe throw people in to prison for ingesting substances that have played a vital part in the development of man.

I remember coming off the road from following da dead in the early 90's and picking up the bible for the first time since embarking on my personal psychedelic voyage. I was amazed at the similarities between much of the text and my personal experiences/beliefs that were formed under the influence. And the words of jesus are straight from the heart of a person who has done much soul seeking and was able to take what he had learned and pass it on......

lw
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Post by: judih on March 08, 2008, 12:23:11 AM
yes, yes.
Basically, the language is universal, once you know what's behind the words.

But as we know, you can only understand as much as you're able to understand.

So, the gov't figures that making it all illegal is their only recourse to trying to control. Faulty thinking. It hasn't worked so far. When will the powers in charge start to throw out old thinking and try something new?
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 08, 2008, 11:41:05 AM
I'm not sure we will see anything new out of our gubmits in the near future. I can't help but wish for at least the decrim of da kine in the next while.

I think the best case scenario for the stronger entheogens could occur after the decrim of da kine if the gubmits were to just quit prosecuting and pursuing cases without any fanfare. I doubt that's the way it will go down, but the less publicity the better, as far as I'm concerned. The gubmit has no bidness in my church and my church has no bidness in the media, imo.

lw
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Post by: judih on March 08, 2008, 12:46:46 PM
how true.
the plenty of the universe in its natural form seems beyond legislation. maybe we're heading for a saner world?

one step at a time.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 10, 2008, 09:05:29 AM
A saner world, eh? That would be nice.

I'd vote for kinder, gentler.

But might settle for a place in the country.......

lw
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Post by: judih on March 10, 2008, 11:25:32 AM
yeah.
the dream of a small place with a nice area for cultivation.
self-sufficiency as much as possible
a modest ability to earn enough cash to pay for supplies.

a gentler way of life.
oh, and weather. i prefer good weather.
Title:
Post by: laughingwillow on March 10, 2008, 01:05:18 PM
Good weather, eh?

Let me tell you a little about my version of good weather......

The other day I walked out of the house and saw a hawk on the ground in front of me. I took a few more loud, crunching steps over the hard crust of a previous snow, figuring I'd scare him up and get a good look. But he was on top of his kill and didn't want to give that sparrow up. So I decided to to wait and watch. We'd had a snow storm the night before and it was windy and overcast. Those types of mornings are about the only ones the hawks come to hunt. I stood still as a tree, with my back to the wind for probably five or six minutes while the bird finished his breakfast. During that time, I watched snow swirl off the edge of our garage, creating silent drifts of art. When it snows, sound gets muffled and on that day in our back yard, it felt like time itself had been frozen in place. When the bird had finished its meal, I broke the spell and resumed my walk in his direction. Even then my friend the raptor never left the yard, instead perching in a tree long enough for me to get in my truck and leave the lot. By the time I got home, only a few feathers remained. And it was time for me to feed the sparrows again.

I love winter and all that entails...

lw
Title:
Post by: judih on March 10, 2008, 02:12:28 PM
and i'm sure it was a raptor i saw today gliding through the grey skies.

winter sounds fine when you tell it.
muffled sounds, snow, crisp icy crunch snow.

sounds good from here.
i kind of like the fresh smell of earth and green wheat, all growing as i watch.
Cold enough to demand a sweatshirt, but unzipping it as i walk.
The horses enjoying a short frolic. Cool enough to play, warm enough to
stand around and watch.

Oranges are all ready for harvest, and i'm ready for spring.

this would be a good time to see a burning bush.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 10, 2008, 03:03:58 PM
gotta burn that bush, sistah..... Rasta-mon brush fire!

Wanna burn those barriers between you and me. Make the walls crumble down around our ears. Flash-poof twango bang! ... and there go our differences. So lets puff again on that piece-de-least-resistance...

lw
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Post by: Stonehenge on March 11, 2008, 03:06:20 PM
The nature of government is to repress and rob the people. Govt was set up by the people to provide services but it attracts those looking for power and wealth. Govt continually grows in size and cost. It takes power away from the public to make itself more powerful. Books like 1984 showed the ends they are working toward. The Bush administration showed it was true and not just a story. Eventually, the most repressive and evil governments are overthrown in a revolution. Then the process starts over again.

We are overdue for a revolution.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 11, 2008, 08:01:14 PM
Not all gubmits repress and rob. That isn't the intent of gubmit.

Taxation with representation is not an inherently evil proposition. Neither is law and order.

lw
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 12, 2008, 01:08:24 PM
Gubmit is a tool. Its people who are corrupted by power. And power does seem to corrupt. More human nature, I guess.

lw
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Post by: judih on March 12, 2008, 03:06:52 PM
there's no escaping it. As long as people look for the fastest high - money, power, oppression, dishonesty, well, yeah, people will remain on that plane of interaction.

gov't seems to push that agenda along.

even a small conscious community falls apart after a while. Is it that we're lazy, or pessimistic or simply don't believe that living in another way is possible?

i don't know.
But for an individual, keeping on track is possible. And that's where we can deal with a burning bush.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 12, 2008, 07:15:45 PM
Go on and BURN DAT BUSH, sistah-j. Burn it all the way to the ground. Open that connection on-high. Spiritual meat for those not satisfied with the milk they want to feed us. Moral cuts meant to bleed us.

Takes one to know one....

lw
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Post by: Stonehenge on March 12, 2008, 07:38:23 PM
Scum rises to the top and so it is that govt is made up of mostly scumbags. There are a few good ones but the rotten ones are in charge. The answer is for the public to become better informed and more interested in what's going on. But I don't see that happening.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 14, 2008, 07:38:09 AM
I think I'm hearing voices in this thread......

Maybe static on da radio.

lw
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Post by: judih on March 14, 2008, 11:23:14 AM
where there's static there's interference.
but where there's voices, there's voices.

'don't ask what voices -
the question blocks out the answer.'

*from the book of laughing willow as translated by judih
Title:
Post by: Stonehenge on March 14, 2008, 05:02:41 PM
Or maybe someone needs to cut back on the hallucinogens.
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Post by: laughingwillow on March 15, 2008, 01:35:29 PM
Sometimes I hear voices in the static....

lw