before i begin, let me fully express my awareness that my actions were rather impulsive and downright stupid. i did not do enough research on the topic before indulging. i'm currently doing fine and eating, thinking, and breathing without trouble, and i'm thankful it wasn't worse and i didn't have to have an emergency vehicle dispatched for me. if restraint from telling me how irresponsible i am tooo much could be practiced in replies i'd be most greatful. thank you.
a friend of mine found a recipe on erowid.org for a tea of Syrian Rue seeds and Mimosa Hostilis root bark as a halucinogen and wanted to give it a try since both ingredients are legal to purchase and posess here (United States). I read a couple experience reports and more similar recipes from other sites and it seemed like a reasonable thing to try. we brewed a batch of it in a french press and we each (3 of us total) had around 1.5 or 2 pretty strong teacups full. for me, the effects began about 30 minutes later with loss of motor control and laughing and feeling energetic. my heart rate went up, not dangerously so, but from around 70 to 100 bpm when i was standing/walking around the room. i started bumping into furniture and walls at this point, and it basically continued until the effects were done.
the recipes we looked at seemed to assume you would naturally throw the mix up in 30 minutes or so, but it never happened for me. soon, the effects started increasing, and my sense of who and what i was started to dissolve. maybe it just wasn't my thing, or maybe it was a bad setting, but i did not like the effects at all and freaked out. i went to the toilet and induced vomitting myself. i did this several more times, some of the times with stuff coming out, others sort of dry heaving or just not getting a strong gag reflex off at all. in the next hour and a half or so, i was in such a panic over the whole situation that i went and continued to cause the gag reflex quite a few more times. hardly any of them resulted in anything coming up, but at the time i had such a strong sense that something was not right and that i just had to get out of the trip that i kept doing it until the effects began to subside. looking back on that scene i was being completely insane and using no rationale at all. i went to bed and didn't really sleep very well cause i was still fairly energetic from it.
the next day (yesterday) i woke up with my head and neck somewhat sore, and a decent amount of abdominal and chest pain. someone mentioned something about the hazards of MAOIs, and i went to read into the topic. hazardous substances to combine them with included some psycoactives, certain OTC and/or prescription meds, alcohol, and cheese. side effects listed included the pains that i was experiencing. naturally this has me all stirred up with concern about if i've damaged my body in a way that should have medical attention.
i had not had any alcohol in me for over 24 hours before, so that was a releif. i might have had cheese on a sandwhich or something earlier that day, but no more than a slice or 2. i had taken my dose of adderall xr that morning (we didn't start consuming the tea until past 1 in the morning... so i'd taken it a good 12 hours+ prior). my friend (also sober) who had the initial idea to do this enjoyed the effects, and he only puked 1 time naturally from his stomach being dissatisfied. my other friend, who had about the same amount as us (maybe a tiny bit less), consumed his while fairly intoxicated (i didn't know this at the time, or i wouldn't have allowed it!), and he didn't puke at all. neither of them have experienced any of the aches and pains that i have, or any of the others listed as possible side effects of improper use of MAOIs that i could find. my head and neck soreness was slowly subsiding throughout yesterday, and today it is 95 to 99 % gone. the chest and stomach soreness is still there, but it is subsiding as well. i still get a fair amount of pain when i engage my muscles down there to try and pass gas (not sure which they are), and coughing gives a somewhat sharp pain in my chest. swallowing hard still causes a bit of discomfort, but not much. i've taken 500mg of tylenol every 8 to 12 hours or so which helped some.
i don't know if i've ever puked as much as i did that night, either naturally or intentionally, but when i do, i usually do have atleast some soreness. this is primarily what has me guessing and hoping that my aches are a result of all this puking and attempted puking and dry heaving and running into things and falling over etc, not of organ damage i've done. I did contact the emergency room department of the local hospital and left a message on their machine describing the situation with my name and number, so i'm waiting to hear back from them also. i guess i'm currently just searching for some reassurance and peace of mind (or a "go to the hospital you idiot!").
so ya, anybody with knowledge on this topic, or even this recipe specifically, i'd much appreciate anything you have to offer.
I'd maybe explore the possibility that the problem was in your head. Well, at least until you began to panic and repeatedly induce yourself to vomit.
quote newgrower: my other friend, who had about the same amount as us (maybe a tiny bit less), consumed his while fairly intoxicated (i didn't know this at the time, or i wouldn't have allowed it!)
Sounds like your friends should have been the ones doing the "not allowing," bit when you were hell-bent on puking until your asshole got intimate with the tonsils.
lw
your likely right, it was a dumb idea. but causing myself to vomit a bunch isn't really going to cause me any problems other than this temporary feeling crappy, will it? i'm alright with that cause i shouldn't have put it in my mouth to begin with. i think i was having an extreme case of "better safe than sorry".
Hi Jono. I am getting similar opinions as LW here, this seems more like a panic reaction as opoosed to anything chemical, my advice would be if you do plan a repeat make it much weaker and get to know this area of awareness and experience gently, in a suitable calm enviroment....be strong in spirit and welcome to SPF
Booooshpig
I re-read your initial post in the thread and found nothing to make me believe there was a problem with an MAOI. I've come to the conclusion that you are a probably something of a hypochondriac and this event magnified that fact.
lw
adderal xr
time-released amphetamine combo...
amps are generally a bad idea w/MAOi...
maybe 2 mg klonopin coulda helped a little...
I got ahold of the ER office and they let me talk to a doctor who was in at the time. I described the situation to him as accurately as I could including the warnings/dangers I read on different web sites, and he had quite the same reaction as you guys. He said that if I'm just a little sore but I'm improving and my brain is working fine, he can't see any possible damage worth writing home about that could have occured, and that its out of my system and done with any reactions that were possible. He agreed the things mentioned on sites I found are definately possible, but rarely ever became an issue except in big doses and on a regular basis.
If I ever decide to recreate this tea/experience, I now have a better idea of the pace to drink it at and how fast your system absorbs it. I was having a really enjoyable time in the lower stages of its effects, so I might repeat it at that level. However, I still will make sure to get a thorough list of substances/medications that MAOIs are not to be mixed with and go over it with anyone else who is going to try it with my assistance/direction, even if it does seem relatively harmless in these doses.
So I guess lesson learned... have a solid knowledge base on something unusual you want to try, and don't puke constantly for over an hour :lol:
btw, I had to look up the word hypochondriac :roll: , but yes I would say that does describe me, atleast with things like this. My parents have been pharmacists for years, my father is in treatment for recently discovered early stages of prostate cancer (thank God for which they caught), and I have a handful of relatives with livers way older than they are. I suppose these sorts of things in my upbringing and life have made me somewhat on the paranoid side about what I put into my body.
either way, thank you all for the helpful responses. I'll hold them close :D
-Jon
since i already have a thread i may as well inquire further; are there any good remedies for this abdominal region pain from all that puking? anything OTC or an anti-acid or muscle stretches or something? I'll be going back to my summer job for the duration of winter break in a 3 or 4 days and i'd like to try and get past it by then.
It's been 4 days since the event, and its dulled most of the way, but still gives me trouble once in a while. Yesterday it was almost 100% fine, even when i went for a light jog. It was achie today [probably] because I pulled an all nighter last night for a morning final exam and just caught a few irregular naps. it is somewhat better now though. would it be stomach/intestinal soreness from being so overworked, or is it something else? it's mostly localized to my torso's left lower side (about where the large intestine is and sorta opposite the liver i think) and some in my back directly behind it.
i tried searching google for good side effects of heavy vomiting but all i can find are lists of side effects for other substances that include vomiting. i've been getting far to little sleep the past few days due to studying for finals, so i'm sure that doesn't help, but i'll be done with that after Thursday.
you guys sure were right. they really should have been the ones restraining me :( but if anyone has advice i'd be very grateful (-:
I'd try to stop worrying, bro. You strained muscles. That takes some time to get over.
lw
Btw, you are not the first person to let fear get the best of them while under the influence of a psychedelic substance. Welcome to the club...... hehe
lw
what he said.......
& for real, give yr body at least 24 hours to metabolize 'scrip amphetamines before doing any MAOi mmmmm?
(& maybe 36-48 hrs for extended release...)
i agree w/ the aches being due to excessive vomitting
oh and if it is made as a tea and consumed on an empty stomach, pretty much after 20-30min its all absrobed and vomiting wont change much except make you fell bad. all that vomiting will make you neck and chest hurt from the very strong induced muscle contractions.
i cant recall the exact translation of deep pain but it is not direct, i.,e sore abdomen where the liver is doesnt mean the liver is hurt, deep organ pains are felt as reffered pains, as the nerves are under developed and intertwined with other nerves, i.e shooting pains up left arm for heart attack..not very descriptive i know, but look up referred pain on google or something.
when i read the topic, i expected to be reading about serotonin syndrome, which is the main danger with maoi, which is why the food restrictions exist.
take care and take some good r&r
I took 6 grams of Syrian Rue in tablet form last night, it took about 2 hours to start affecting me (I had a big nasty curry chip before it that probably made it take longer).
At first I thought nothing was going to happen, then I saw streamers on my hands and basically everything else, my heart started to pump faster, my balance got completely messed up, and suffice to say my entire curry chip was brought back up.
My fingers were also incredibly filled with pins and needles feeling, I threw up 3 times but never of my own choice. I felt incredibly ill and still do today.
Just thought I/d share another idiots unresearched experiments to make you feel better, though it sounds like you did have a worse time of it than me, my muslces are ok, I'm just finding it a bit hard to eat too much today. :lol:
Quote from: "visionarybear"when i read the topic, i expected to be reading about serotonin syndrome, which is the main danger with maoi, which is why the food restrictions exist.
Not exactly...the food restrictions largely exist to prevent ingestion of tyramine and the like, which cause hypertension. Serotonin syndrome is usually caused by the co-ingestion of anything that will result in an effective elevated synaptic concentration of serotonin (SSRI, serotonin agonists, etc.).
While both are dangerous, it is important to keep track of the various causes and effects. IMO, the abdominal pain is likely to be due to the vomitting (as has been said), but the head and neck stiffness are possibly indicative of low-level hypertension. I'm thinking the adderall was playing a role here.
Was there a headache that accompanied these symptoms?
There's really nothing to be worried about considering how "minor" the episode was (I'm assuming, as you didn't really indicate an overwhelming migraine), but it's still good to know what's going on nonetheless. Had it been a serotonin issue, you would have likely come down with seizure-like symptoms (jaw-clenching, REM, shaking, possible high temperatures; think rolling way too hard).
But of course, it does seem minor and altered states of consciousness have been known to elicit fear of health issues which aren't really occurring.
I'm guessing the addition of M hostilis rootbark to the rue tea was the cause for concern of serotonin syndrome in the initial post.
lw
^^^^
Why would you associate the MHRB with serotonin syndrome? Just so we're on the same page, this substance is a source of dimethy tryptamine. Conversely, it is the MAOI portion (Syrian Rue in this case) that is normally associated with SS, as inhibition of MAO leads to an increased life (and hence higher concentration) of synaptic serotonin.
Although some of the effects of DMT are attributed to a serotonergic action, I am unaware of this compound inducing SS when combined with an otherwise benign dosage of MAOI.