Ok, so what do deadheads have against this dude? I think he is one of the most talented, soulful guys to show up in many a year.
Ditto Steve Kimock
Please explain.
Why do you ask? I'd rather not criticize anyone for their playing.
I can only speak for myself, but I will say that I like Phil's current line up better now than when Warren was on stage with them. I realize the guy is talented, but his playing is way too up front for my taste. His style grates on me, to be honest. A classic gat strangler, imo. I guess I just get a little tired of all the squealing. On the other hand, a few of my most psychedelic experiences have occured with him on stage with Phil.
Btw, I wouldn't cross the street for free tix to watch the Mule....
lw
Warren is too Southern Rock for me, with Phil but especially in Mule. Steve Kimock: I have seen him several times and he just doesn't seem to click with the band. Maybe if he talked or sang or something. He plays guitar nice; actually I don't mind listening to stuff like KVHW or when he was with Phil. I guess I just don't like seeing him live.
I really like the playing and stage style of Jimmy Herring, though. I wish he as in the latest version of Jazz is Dead, who's playing here at the end of the month.
-TM
I liked Kimock's playing with Ratdog. He fits in nicely and si a littel too subdued, if anything.
Jimmy Herring is the guy I like to hear with Phil. But he gets a little drowned out and stepped on when playing with Warren, imo.
lw
Hmm. Interesting. My take on Herring is that he is more of a Garcia imitator even than Kimock.
I hear great passion from Warren, he's a great blues player. Ever hear Govt. Mule's Catfish Blues? Seems like he is channeling Muddy and Jimi, I got the old chicken skin effect for sure from that. That's the test, does it make my arm hair stand up.
Did you see Phil with Scofield? That I gotta hear.
BTW I just don't get Ratdog. I saw the first version with Johnny Johnson, and they couldn't hold the crowds attention.
Then once when I was channel surfing I saw a Ratdog video ona heavy metal show. Again, it was lukewarm at best. Is Weir OK? Or does he have some major health issues? He sure looks old these days, but he's just 58 if I remember right.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Guys, did I tell you I was gonna play with Melvin Seals a week from Friday? I played with Martin Fierro on Halloween.
Playing with Melvin, eh? Right on! I rode an elevator with him once after a Jerry show in Tahoe. hehe
I didn't much care for the earliest version of RatDog, but the last half-dozen or so times that we've caught them live have been quality shows, for the most part. (Except for the time he opened up for Phil at RedRocks.) Anyway, I've had a few psychedelic experiences with Bobby's band that rival most anything I've been dealt by da dead or phil.
Btw, I don't hear Jimmy Herring copying Jerry as much as filling the space He used to occupy in a similar manner. Jimmy is more jazzy than Jerry, imo. Also, neither Jerry nor Jimmy dominate the band's mix the way Warren does, as far as I'm concerned.
lw
I hear a lot of Jerry in the way Herring bends his notes, that is a big part of any guitar stranglers voice. Having said all that, what are we all but a bundle of influences?
I guess I got on this tangent reading the endless palaver at the Internet Archives sight. Methinks alot of these uberheads cannot see the forest for the trees.
LOL Some of those dick-heads on that site annoy me, too, bro.
lw
You guys like Derek Trucks?
Oh yeah. Derek Trucks can lay it down.
lw
I don't know enough of Derek to have an opinion. I think I saw him a couple times with Allmans?? If so, that stuff was good for sure.
-TM
I've seen trucks sit in with Phil a time or two and am pretty sure we've even caught a set or two of his out here on the edge of the prairie a few years back. I really like the middle eastern infused grooves he brings to the table.
lw
Yeah me too. I have a great version of Mr. PC the Coltrane minor blues by Derek. It is so intense it's like if Coltrane played slide guitar.
A little late to the party, as usual! LOL! :D
I like Warren's playing pretty much anytime when he isn't using the envelope filter or wah wah pedal. I think he is an outstanding slide player (although Derek Trucks is better, IMHO) and he is versatile on acoustic too. I try not to compare him to Garcia though, especially when he is playing Garcia tunes. I think he and Jimmy Herring did a good job of sounding off of each other in the 2002-2003 PLF Quintet formation, but I agree that he tried to steal the limelight and overshadow Jimmy. Fortunately, Jimmy's playing spoke for itself. I heard a rumor that one of the reason's the Dead stopped touring was Warren's attitude...
I've started getting into Derek recently. Got his latest album and listened to a few streaming shows on Sugarmegs. He's got some real talent and like LW said, I like his world music influence.
Yeah, I really like Derek. He looks to be a guy that might take music in some directions. I think he is on to it with his mixing of influences, isn't that what most innovators do.
You guys are discriminating(I was gonna say pickey). And I understand. I think I might be more forgiving, at least in recent years.
Ain't no one gonna fill Papa's shoes, that's for sure.
So how did the Phil shows with Scofield go? Anybody got one?
Laura gave me Phil and Friends Live at the Warfield, 5-18 and 19, 2006 for christmas. Scofield plays gat along with Larry Campbell. Joan on vocals, Molo drums, Greg Osby on sax and Barraco on pie-ano. Its unique. Real jazzy and a little under psychedelicized for my taste, maybe. But I'm just hearing it for the second time, so we'll see.
I find Warren to be a little imposing on my personal psychedelic experiences, to be honest. The best way to describe it, maybe, would be to compare the musical conversations to which Id' become accustomed to hearing through the years with da dead to the musical conversations between them and Warren. Part of the beauty is hearing the minute interractions which are constantly occuring on stage; the give and take leading to the spaces in-between. But Warren tended to talk over the rest of the band, imo. I'm sure its just a stylistic difference, but I got the impression that WH plays better than he listens, and I don't have to drive far to find that musical arrangement........
lw
On second listen, I'm really digging the Phil show with Scofield on gat. Phil and Molo have been playing together long enough now that it must be pretty easy to add other professionals to the mix. Osby, Campbell and Scofield sound like they are having a blast. Maybe Phil sounds has been working on the lyrical phrasing a bit. Joan makes the hairs on my arms stand up with her version of Morning Dew. Its kind of nice hearing a woman sing that song which happens to be written by a woman. (Bonnie Dobson)
lw
I saw Warren with The Allman Bro's with Stork. We where in the 11th row with a bunch of local bikers who invited us up front. Most of them knew us - but it was still pretty strange. Intimidating. We were obviously the only two there tripping and not on some speeder type substance. Oh, and the music pretty much sucked.
Now with Phil, its like LW said, "On the other hand, a few of my most psychedelic experiences have occured with him on stage with Phil"
Now what do we have against Steve Kimock? Myself, I've heard him a few times. Talked with him a bit, seems cool. One show was very psychedelic, but the others just didn't seem to go there. He played with Banyan and it was pretty good. He didn't take a lead role in that show however, he was with some really great musicians. Stork doesn't like him. Something about when he was "working" in the kitchen at Quixotes, and Kimock was rude to them.
If I remember correctly, there might have been some type of spat between Kimock's and Phil's old-ladies. I also recall instances of hard drug use that didn't sit well with Phil and I'm pretty sure Kimock's name was mentioned in the same sentence. But I could be wrong.
I grew up with bikers and am comfortable with them for the most part. You just have to learn, and learn quickly, which ones not to turn your back on.....
lw
It all start's with the bass and drums, that's for sure.
I would like to get my hands on a Philsco show. 2 of my favorites, must be a thrill for both of them. Nice to see someone with the jazz cred of Scofield showing Phil that much respect.
What can I say about Joan?? I got like a schoolboy crush on her. Loved her with the Funk Brothers, loved her with the Dixie Chicks, love her with Phil and with the Dead. Is she married? j/k
I haven't seen em live, but I dig this version of the Allman Bros. I think Otiel is one of the very best bassies anywhere.
I can send you a copy of the Warfield sets my wife gave me for christmas, Jrl. No problem. (I'll need your addy again, bro.)
lw
TSTT, the Allman Bros definately aren't what I consider tripping music, even if they do have the mushroom tatoo thing going for them, but I'm sort of surprised to hear you didn't like the show. Was Derek Trucks playing with them? Was it just because of Warren, or that you don't like there music in general?
I guess what I didn't like most was the atmosphere. I generally like their music. Like I said, we were invited up front, but many people during the show kept trying to make their way up front and the bikers had to keep throwing them out of our area. Which in one way was kind of nice. Everytime someone would come and stand infront of us, some muscle would come and tell them to move along. But then, it seemed everytime things got a little trippy a big biker would come up, "who the hell are you?" and we would have to explain who we where with.
I don't remember if Derek was there or not. It seemed to me there were too many guitars. Especially the crescendos. The music would start to build, but then it seemed to get lost in some sort of guitar competition until everyone would just lose it. They didn't quite get to that psyidelic point of really playing together. They played on top of each other, trying to out do each other. It seem to appeal to the biker on speed/alcohol crowd, but not us.
LW really summed it up with, " Part of the beauty is hearing the minute interractions which are constantly occuring on stage; the give and take leading to the spaces in-between. But Warren tended to talk over the rest of the band, imo." I don't know if I would say it was Warren's fault at the show I went to. It seemed a mindset where they where all trying to outplay each other rather than complement each others playing. I haven't seen that when Warren's playing with Phil.
--
Oh yea, some time ago, I walked next door during a set break and caught two songs from Zero. They were ok, but I went back next door where some "unknown" band was tearing the place apart. We all thought it interesting: 100's of people next door playing $26 bucks to see an average show, when next door for free was one of the best shows we'd all seen in a long time.
Phil made a couple of interesting comments on this very subject concerning the different approaches to music by these very same bands. (Da dead and Allmon bros.) According to the legend, The Allmon Bros ended up on stage with da dead one night and Dickie Betts shared some licks with Jerry. Later one of Bros Allmon commented on the evening in question with a very different take than da dead. Da Allmons saw the exchange as a competition betwen Jerry and Dickie that Dickie surely won. So it wouldn't surprise me if that edge of competition still livesthrives in da Allmons playing style.
lw
Yeah, I think the culture differences between the two bands is as different as SF and Georgia were back then, but I think they got huge mutual respect. Phil said so in his book, but you didn't need that to tell.
I always said the Dead would dose you, but the Bros. would just kick your ass.........
And anyways I hear a bit of a musical bully in Garcia, especially in the early days.
Players like this, their music is themselves, that's why we love them.
"Players like this, their music is themselves, that's why we love them."
Sometimes. But I feel, when things really start to happen, the musicians call on something higher than themselves. They "tap" into the audience and play our songs / "the" song.
-Got me a violin and I beg you call the tune,
-Anybody's choice, I can hear your voice.
-Wo, oh, what I want to know, how does the song go?
I think we call on something higher all the time, don't always get answered. But when it does it still is being filtered and manifested through the players hearts, minds, and inidividual and collective experience.
Thats the groove, baby. I live for it. When it's happening I see it shimmering off the crowd like mirages in the desert. What starts it happening is the love we got for each other on the bandstand, when I play with my long time cronies is when it gets best. Me and Jimmie and Drumbo been playin together for 15 years, Big Bob and Stacie not as long, but still a lot. We are tuned in on so many levels. One of you guys mention "listening" way back in the thread, that is the key. That's where the magic comes from.
I know I am rambling, just got done with back to back gigs, still buzzing from a mind blowing night. I thought about the Dead a bit tonight, realizing how much I have learned from them about what music can be. I can't even imagine who I'd be if it wasn't for their example.
Time for bed, thanks for putting up with this.
There is something about the loop of musician/song/audience that not only feeds upon itself and grows but is also is capable of manifesting a distinct blended energy field. Dead members made mention of awakening the beast in various interviews throughout the years. I have felt that beast fo energy occasionally and find it interesting that always on those occasions, others around me would similarly be watching/listening gap-mouthed as the mystery unfolded.
lw