I know I'm asking a lot, so I want to thank you ahead of time for helping a complete n00b learn.
Let's begin with the preliminaries:
Since I'm a 'drug noob' and I .. want to know about this for educational purposes... .. I would like to know how, if I wanted to, I could go out and obtain DMT.. Not through purchasing it directly, but through extracting it from a plant.
Let me begin about my experience and motives:* I have no drug experience. I've never smoked even a cigarette. I didn't even know how 'smoking a bowl' worked until someone told me, and I've still never seen it nor a bong in action.
* I'm not interested in smoking DMT, and I think chewing Syrian Rue seeds for a MOAI is a little bit of a dangerous route for what I'm interested in learning about.
* Though the effects of ayahuasca interest me, I'm not totally interested in learning how to get vines or go to Brazil.
* I know DMT will make some people 'shit the bed' figuratively ;P (not death-wise, but just shock-wise!) and its purpoted spiritual value is why I'm interested. Yes, I know that since I have NO drug experience, if I wanted to do it I should work my way up. I don't want to hear that kind of advice, though :p
* Though I am a bit intimidated by smoking or such, I've briefly considered alternatives, such as emptying my nasal inhaler and putting whatever liquid I have that contains DMT into it, and taking dosages 'nasally' (and somewhat through my lungs).[/list]
About what I have learned about DMT:* I first read that Phalaris grass was a great source, though after seeing some slightly-depressing notes about a low DMT content from Erowid, I figured that it wouldn't stop me.. Especially since there was no "Me-OH-DMT" (?) I'd have to worry about killing me.
* However, this was from erowid and other 'drug databases',
not drug forums: from here, I read a few posts that basically said that Phalaris Arundecia has
Gramine, and 5-Meo-DMT in it: one of which I'm a bit scared of, and the other I"m not sure I want (though I hvae read about it)
* I have also read that Phalaris Arundecia has such a low content of DMT that I would have to "Juice" wet plant matter or 'process' a pound of dry plant matter to get even
one dosage. This sounds a bit worrysome, but I guess I wouldn't mind being stubborn (I always have been!)
* I would want a strain with high alkaloid content, meaning that the leaves would have a bluish-green tint, versus a wheaty-green or tan color. Since I already have a plant, I'm not sure if I'd use what I have, because if what I have sucks I dunno if I'd want to spend $30 to get a new one too :p
* That due to the gramine content, I would have to process my 'juiced plant' or my chopped dry plant matter.. Whereas before, I heard I would not have to worry and simply consume my 'liquid plant matter', now I may have to worry about things like 'naptha' or 'ether' or boiling it and waiting five days. Perhaps this could have been reasonable for a clean experience, but I do not know how to do any of this. [/list]
About me, and what I have:* I have a phalaris plant, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it for DMT. It's got some 'more bluish-green than green' lines of color to its wheat-and-green colored leaves. I heard that acacia is better, though I'd have to use the certain-kind-of-acacia's bark if i wanted, which would hurt a tree.
* Due to being called a "Noxious Weed" by my state's government, it is perhaps the only state that will stop the selling and importing of the Phalaris Arundecia. Bummer.
* For other plant-woes, I heard about "
Desmanthus illinoensis", which supposedly has a lot of DMT in its roots... also known as the "Illinois Bundle Weed".
* I already own a Wheat-grass juicer, though I'm not sure I"d want to juice so many leaves.
* I have always been in fierce pursuit of spiritual goals, and though death can be a scary concept, I am interested in learning, and seeing if this path could be right for me.[/list]
In summation: I am a total n00b, but I am interested in learning methods and processes.. What I am looking from YOU is:
1. Tell me what you know about Gramine. What can it do? If the worse it could do is give me a rash, I don't think I"d worry much about it, but if it could kill me, I would like to be warned.
2. Where should I go to learn more? What forums would you recommend me visiting to talk to other groups of experienced users and extractors?
3. Yes, this is going to be weird. If taking it nasally won't work, I may want to learn how to either have makeshift paraphenalia, or.. mm. :?
4. I've already read that not many people try to get their DMT from phalaris. What is the best source? What is the best source with only DMT and no 5-Meo? What is the best source with only DMT and no other noxious poisons (Gramine)?
5. If I'm not mistaken, the way to extract DMT would be to:
A. 'lightly' boil the mixture in some acid (ph 4) solution covered, perhaps overnight, then when I'm done,
B. pour it into a container that I can shake with some ether/naptha (?), which will separate out the gooky stuff I don't want. .. I'm not sure if that part will last days.
C. Then, I gently pour the stuff that remained on the top of the 'mixture' out, to either sit in the air or back into a pan to repeat the first step (boiling). After rinse/repeating, I
D. Somehow ingest what remains (gel or whatever?).
Is this process correct, and as simple as it sounds?
I know I"m asking a lot, so I want to thank you ahead of time for being willing to help a complete n00b learn.
(PS: This is what a friend-of-a-friend wanted me to post)
Well now; That was quite a first time posting.... :wink: --- So you want to investigate DMT, and yet, for some reason you appear hell-bent on using low yield plant donors such as Phalaris, or Illinois Bundleflower... Man, I gotta ask the obvious???? Why oh why don't you go with the tried and true Mimosa Hostilis Root Bark???? If you want to learn how to extract relatively pure (90+%) from Mimosa, I would suggest you go over to DMT World and read up on the differebt techs discussed there... You could also Google in "Marsofold Tek"..... That should be all the info you'd need to visit the DMT elves.......... 8) --------- keep us informed as to your journey, and welcome to the forums here------------- sal
1. ive never heard of Gramine, i will google it
2. www.erowid.org (http://www.erowid.org) they have everything about everything (including DMT containing plants and info on pure DMT)
3. not sure how to make a DMT pipe exactly but if im not mistaken you can use a regular pipe jsut add the DMT to some other stuff (of plant matter) and let the plant matter soak up the dmt and smoke that or let the final DMT solution you get after the extraction process dry into a ball and smoke that ball (jsut make sure you use the right amount of heat as DMT can be easily destroyed with heat (so i heard you might want to double check my facts)
4. not sure exactly the best try erowid and google, first look up plants on erowid and then google the plant for its alkaloid content on google
5. Cheack erowid.org they have extracts for everything and sometimes even pictorial extractions.
OVERALL CHECK >>> WWW.EROWID.ORG (http://www.erowid.org) <<<
Jus407: Thanks for your posts, though I checked Erowid a lot. There was one page that showed how to extract DMT from a 'source (//http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/extraction_guide1/dmt_extraction_guide1.shtml)', , and I found it useful. That was perhaps the only new thing I found there as I got my "Hey, let's use Phalaris!" idea from Erowid :p
Senorsalvia:
I read a lot about Mimosa, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to investigate how I'd start work on that... For example, it's the root.. That kinda kills most plants :p Phalaris keeps restoring itself, so I'd like to find out about the mimosa Hostilis bark.. So wouldn't this mean I'd need to buy it off the internet? Hm. I also looked at teh Marsofold Tek (//http://forums.lycaeum.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002352), which seems to be pretty good.
reading more on Mimosa Hostilis root, it seems to be orally active. Does anybody know this for certain? I'm not sure that it would be totally safe to chew and chew and chew this and then swallow it, but it looks like it'd be an easier method for getting DMT.
So..
Is Mimosa Hostilis orally active iwthout a MAOI for DMT?
What about its dosage?
I've read up on some "Alan Shoemaker" thing, and one website seems to ask its customers to be cautious, which is sad. (The judge says "Anything with DMT in it is actually illegal" and yet we have DMT in ourselves) Because I read on that, would it be smarter to buy some seeds and raise up a plant myself, or would it be smarter to just buy the bark?
Mimosa is not orally active without first taking your MAO inhibitor.... I did note that you seem somewhat concerned about using something such as Rue seeds... While it is true that there is a health issue (if not following dietary guidelines), you need not worry if you have extracted from Mimosa and then turned your DMT into smokable form, ala Marsofold or other teks.... No need for that inhibitor if smoking DMT freebase..... If you want to experience DMT in oral form, might I suggest you look into the Ayahuasca Forums, and particularly check out the "Hummingbird Tek"..... It has been found that when using phosphoric acid for prepping, that the results lend to a drastic reduction in the amounts of Mimosa needed for an effective dose.....just a few grams of rootbark instead of the usual 12-20grams...........Mimosa rootbark is sold in many many places all across the net..... I'd go for purchasing a kilo..... That way, you could experiment with both oral and smoking until you find yourself with your own magic bullet :lol: ----------- Don't hesitate to ask anything.... It can be a daunting task sifting through the barrage of info around........We here can probably find an accepted avenue to 'cut to the chase'..... good luck in your journey--------- sal----------- PS.... That tek by QT is considered by most to be uselessly time consuming and generally outdated nowadays----------
Hmmm...
Some nice info here, SSalvia. Thanks for the help so far. :3
I'm not sure if I mentioned it before, but my first idea of extracting DMT from a plant via a wheatgrass juicer woudl have me put the resultant 'juice' into a nasal inhaler and taking it that way.. So Id on't need a MOAI, but supposedly how it'd get absorbed.
Haven't found out much saying if it'd work or not...
In any case, Where would I get phosphoric acid? (I like how in some "Tek"s they tell you what the product is 'also known as'.. Like how 'Naptha' would be "lighter fluid" X3)
And.. I'm not sure on this.. but would Phosacid be like.. non-polarizing/polarizing? I'm asking 'cause I wouldn't be sure what base/solvent I should use without.. hm.. dissolving the DMT-salt-alkaloid? (If that's correct..)
I've only learned a bit about A/b things so far, but I'm good at following directions...!
So.. 1. What/where is Phosphoric acid? (Would the Teks you've referred me to tell me what it is?)
2. Any certain base I should use? Would I even need one? :p
3. Would you guess if taking it nasally'd work? (PS: Should I worry about any other PHalaris content if I use my phalaris 'juiced' ? :p)
A few things:
First, gramine isn't something which is desirable, and it's best to stay away from it. Interestingly, some research shows that it is a 5-HT2A antagonist, whereas (if I'm not mistaken), the serotonergic alkaloids, like n,nDMT. are 5-HT2A agonists, so it's a little unclear what effects the combination would produce. I know of no deleterious effects on humans from gramine, but it is poisonous to other higher mammals, so I would research it well before proceeding (personally, I would stay away from it).
QuoteThough the effects of ayahuasca interest me, I'm not totally interested in learning how to get vines or go to Brazil.
Why? If you're really serious about exploring these states, it takes a little time, effort, and research... but learning to brew ayahuasca isn't
that onerous. There are some very good resources on the web (and some bad ones), so learning the ropes isn't too hard. [A few years ago it was much harder, but much progress amongst westerners has been made over the past few years.]
In my opinion, real ayahuasca is probably the best way to proceed. Syrian Rue is inferior for several reasons: The levels of hamaline are higher than in
B. caapi, and one desires harmine, not harmaine; There is no tetrahydroharmine in Syrian Rue, and this beta-carboline has been implicated in some of the more profound and deep effects of true ayahuasca, which are absent in analogs (THH probably modifies the reuptake of serotonin in pre-synaptic neurons, which would lead to higher serotonin levels during the experience, but not dangerously so as is the case with SSRIs); There are several noxious alkaloids in syrian rue, so one would at least one to perform an extraction on it before using it.
Now, having said all of this many people use Rue and find it worthwhile, so I don't mean to imply that one can't have deep or profound experiences with an analog.
People say ayahuasca isn't DMT, and they're right. With the addition of the active beta-carbolines, it's actually more (IMO, of course).
QuoteI read a lot about Mimosa, so I wasn't sure if I wanted to investigate how I'd start work on that... For example, it's the root.. That kinda kills most plants
No. It can be ethically harvested from the lateral roots, and usually is.
The nasal inhaler idea just won't help you because you will still be left with the fact that DMT is not orally (meaning nasally as well) active without also using an inhibitor..... Google phosphoric acid.... It's really cheap/like 3-4 buck for 16 ounces... used in soda and beer making etc.... One thing to note, is that you can always use good ole cappi vine as a MAO and not have to deal with Rue..... Glad to see you are alive with interest ...... :wink: ----------- sal
Senorsalvia:
That would've been cool to use my normal medicine stuff, as I figured having it go up the nose'd be the same as inhaling the smoked DMT...
How dangerous/risky would Caapi vine be to import? From that whole "Joe Shoemaker" Thing.. was it just because he imported a huge amount of materials? Hm..
So let's say this:
Though it has Gramine and chlorophyll in it, if I took the caapi vine and then drank "The teaspoon" I juiced from the Phalaris, it should be enough? Hm. I might still worry about the gramine, but as someone suggested, Gramine isn't listed as being poisonous to humans on Wikipedia: does that mean it is/isn't? Hm.
Amomynous:
I know Gramine isn't desirable, though aside from a very blocky Lab, I'm not sure how I could omit it from whatever I'd produce with my phalaris. .. Anyways, a quick look at 5-HT2A on Wikipedia'd imply that the harmaline'd get to the serotonin receptors first, 'clog them up' and the DMT wouldn't work.. (or vice versa)
In any case, I think I might try out Ayahuasca, based on what you've described.. I guess maybe I'm either: easily convinced, or hopefully interested in the effects of ayahuasca anyways.
In any case, wouldn't making ayahuasca work 'as intended by shamans' if I get the right plants, too?
Maybe I would read up on it (at www.ayahuasca.com (http://www.ayahuasca.com) right?)
Anyways, I hope that I wouldn't hear it's an expensive venture, but then again...
In summary:
1. Ayahuasca still have good/healing/DMT-more effects even without the supplements most shamans provide?
2. Is Caapi vine difficult or risky to obtain?
3. I intended to grow my own mimosa.. but I don't know how to 'ethically harvest' it, and I guess on one hand, it would be difficult to grow a bush... So would odering Mimosa root be easier (and how about safety?) than getting it myself? Hm.
4. I'll reply after I get more info at www.ayahuasca.com (http://www.ayahuasca.com) or other sources. (ALA the National Geographic article: I better get a snake-proof bucket? ;P )
Quote1. Ayahuasca still have good/healing/DMT-more effects even without the supplements most shamans provide?
Definitely. Keep in mind that while there are probably a hundred plants that are at times admixtured with ayahuasca, the vine admixtured with a visionary tryptamine sources such as chacruna (
P. viridis, the most commonly used admixture) or jurema (
M. hostillis) is powerful and profound, and is used commonly by most shamans. The syncretic groups in Brasil (the UDV and Santo Daime) use only caapi and chacruna. Some shamans/explorers use pure caapi too, and many people have found the experience meaningful.
Quote2. Is Caapi vine difficult or risky to obtain?
Not at all. If you're in the US, for example, caapi is legal to obtain, import, and consume; it contains no scheduled compounds. Even if you live in a country where the beta-carbolines are considered scheduled medicines (such as Canada and Australia) the vine itself is considered permissable and is not legally prosecuted.
Quote3. I intended to grow my own mimosa.. but I don't know how to 'ethically harvest' it, and I guess on one hand, it would be difficult to grow a bush... So would odering Mimosa root be easier (and how about safety?) than getting it myself? Hm.
If you're in a temperate climate, growing your own mimosa is not really an option.
Buying mimosa is legally ambiguous, but it is commonly imported for other uses in industry, so the legal risk is slight, if not non-extant. I know of no one who has run into problems buying mimosa.
Alan Shoemaker's case (where he was arrested not for importing caapi but for chacruna) is complex. I've spoken to him while in Peru, and let's just say the government really screwed up. I don't want to say too much about the case (as it is still in the legal system), but in my non-lawyerly opinion the government realized they screwed up, and the case
got complicated through their efforts to save face.
If you're interested in growing your own allies with the visionary tryptaimes there are a few options, but none of them are without problem.
In a temperate climate, you can grow Chacruna as a house plant and move it outside when there is no possibility of frost. I've grown chacruna for a few years, and while I don't eat my leaves (it's just a pet plant) it seems to be an easy to grow plant, as far as tropicals are concerned.
Bundleflower may be an option, but I don't know too much about it. McKenna used to speak a lot about it with great enthusiasm, but I don't know many people who have explored this, and sometimes McKenna's facts need to be taken with a grain of salt.
If you're in a warm climate (but not tropical) some of the Acacia species may be hardy at your latitude, and some of them have pretty high alkaloidal contents. But Mimosa and Acacia are
trees, so you're probably looking at several years before you end up with harvestable amounts.
Quote4. I'll reply after I get more info at www.ayahuasca.com (http://www.ayahuasca.com) or other sources. (ALA the National Geographic article: I better get a snake-proof bucket? ;P )
The forums as aya.com (forums.ayahuasca.com, which are hosted on the same server as this site) are a good source of information.
Great info there==== You now have the "ultimate choice"''''' You can quite easily obtain a DMT effect, or,,, you can go through the relatively easy teks and experience DMT as the 'natives do' ...... I don't really have anything of value to add 'cept good luck!!!!!----- BTW, have you even considered SALVIA ???????? Left DMT in the dust as far as spirituall practice/avaialability/legality (though that is changing))
'
I'm kinda in the same boat as the original poster.I 've been interested in a/b extraction for quite some time now.It seems releatively easy,and i've been reading many different teks on the process:
//http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=8478
//http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/extraction_guide1/dmt_extraction_guide1.shtml
//http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/dmt/dmt_chemistry1.shtml
I think the first tek seems the easiest,yoda's tek seems pretty good aswell,qt tek seems to have many uneccessary steps as others have already mentioned.The only thing I don't like about the first tek is that he seems to come out with a brown goo.Is this impurity due to choice of acid,like if you were to use phos. acid,would you come out with a more pure product than with acetic acid(vinegar) after defatting had been done aswell?
Until now i've had experience with mush cultivation and the fine lady jane(afoaf lets me drop in on his grow and check it out).I've had some experience cultivating salvia although I can never seem to get full effects from the plant,not even from extracts.
Along with nn-dmt,i'm also very interested in 5-meo-dmt.Has anyone here heard about it's effects or know anybody who's tried it?I've heard it's like nn-dmt but without the visuals.Does that mean you would be able to function as normal while the world around you accelerated beyond regualr speed?
I've heard phalaris is generally not a very good plant to use for extraction as the 5meo will tend to overpower the dmt.Johnny Appleseed has the "big medicine" strain which is supposed to contain more dmt than 5meo and have more of a concentration of it to boot.
Ps:Do you still post on lady salvia forums senorsal?I havn't been on there in ages :?
As far as DMT goes, I'd say the best and fastest way to grow it is to grow p. viridis. Other plants have a higher percentage but take forever to grow. PV is easy to clone and grows reasonably fast.
I think there are a few folks who need to review the site rules. If I'm not mistaken, extracting dmt from the mentioned plant sources is illegal in most/ many countries. Coming on this site and asking for help in committing a crime ain't the way it works around these parts.
Talk all the theory you desire, but please leave us out of your plans.
lw
Yes of course,how could I have wrote something so naive as saying I was wanting to attempt an extraction,must have been all that hedgery last night :P
What I meant was I was extremely interested in the chemistry of going about said extraction,not that I had intended to actually perform such an extraction.Chemistry has always been a key interest of mine,Shulgins books are a favourite for me.Organic chemistry in general is a subject dear to my heart.
I edited my other post so as not to falsely portray myself as having any intention to actually go about extracting any illegal material,afterall it's produced in our brains anyway,if the autorities wanted to nab me for the compound they could on the account of me having the brain chemistry of a human being :D
Thanks, mon.
I too await the day we are arrested for cranial mfg of dmt. Heck, I'm willing to bet they try and throw an intent to deliver on top just because they can.
lw