It's been a while since I've seen a good morning glory/ HB woodrose thread...... makes me wonder if theirs been much interest in these plant allies.
I remember ingesting six HBWR seeds once along time ago. As I recall I shaved the outside of the seeds with a pocket knife, blended em up and drank em in a glass of water. It wasn't the most pleasant experience. Somewhat sedative, with no real stomach problems to speak of. I just didn't like the way it rendered my ego into sillly puddy.
Anybody else have some comments on this?
Only in growing them.
Using them is not much interest to me.
Gastric distress and feeling like a jerk is not what I seek.
But that's just my past, others may have different viewpoints.
I am still debating where to put my HBWR and my Hawaiian Woodrose outdoors this spring. I can see putting the Morning Glories against my split-rail and wire-mesh fence, but would have to wathc my mowing and trimming so that I don't cut them down.
Maybe the two woodrose varieties can go against the pillars of my patio covering so they can climb. I have to clear some hedges first though.
And those will be chipped into mulch. So much to do - fun, fun, fun.
But it will be after being inside due to snow for a few weeks.
With a little preparation, HBWR can be a shamanic inebriant of the highest caliber. I've had a few very, very positive experiences (where allowed by law, etc.).
But some people (myself included) seem to be very sensitive to the vasoconstrictive nature of the active components, and no preparation will remove that. As a result, I haven't used them in years, and probably won't in the foreseeable future.
What's this Amon? LSA has vascular constrictive properties?...... I suppose that makes sense. I've read as I'm sure all the rest of you have of it's uterine contractive properties (symiliar to ergot and supposedly LSD) making LSA and pregnancy a big no no...... and one would assume, if it's a vassopressor, not good for a person with potential heart risks as well. And then theirs the other toxins in the seeds the cyanogenic glycosides (same as in apple seeds exc.) that supposedly cause all of the other effects. i.e. vomiting, stomach cramps/pains exc. And lets not forget the potential pesticides and 'preservatives' that some seed vendors spray on their seeds (to keap the hippy stench off of em?)
Mmmm, sounds tempting to try again! (joking)
But in the same vein, I recently read through most of the negative experience reports on erowid concerning LSA and most every one of em it was out right said or at least one could easily assume that minimal to no seed prep work was done before ingestion.
Although one does get the impression some people get sick reguardless of how much prep work is done beforehand....... although I don't believe I've ever heard any firsthand stories of such.......
(edit) Oh and I have 8 HBWR in a pot myself Winder. Their only around two years old and I don't expect em to ever flower in my climate, but is a pretty and hardy vine....... I like it. It doesn't die like most other plants I've tried growing over the years at least. Ha!
I read a very interesting report on erowid for a sublingual method of consumption ( where legal of course ). The link is
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5502 (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=5502)
Booosh
Yeah, interesting. Thanks hedge monkey! Er uhm Booosh. :D First time I've ever heard of that type of administration of LSA's. Quit novel.
Theirs a thread on the lycaeum that has what I would assume is a pretty good tek, but it's pretty much the same as the erowid ones only the lycaeum thread I'm refferencing talks about leaving the lsa's in a alchohol tincture form instead of drying it out. Those guys claim theirs a vast differenct between the tincture and the dried extract. But yeah, mucosal absorbtion......... interesting that that person did not report any nausia...... I don't really see how that excludes the undesireables. Maybe their too big a molecules to absorb through the mucosa?
........ although his argument is pretty convincing.
I love it.my cat does it all the time
Ummmm, lets see here.
Just a note,
this thread is for academic purposes only. The ingestion or posession of LSA's is Illegal in most places. Please do not admit to current illegal activities. When in doubt, keap your posts timeless and or impersonal.
I think I remeber reading something somewhere once about some strange being that had used a CWE of similar seeds in conjunction with some mushrooms, which seemed to have launched it into a new plane of experience. So much so that it caused the Abort Trip button to be activated. Then it passed out and konked it's head on the way down...
Could've been just a dream. I have a poor memory... can't tell the difference between what I dream and read sometimes.
Friend of a friend has a tec he got off internet wherein multiple washes of ground seeds with Naptha supposedly removes the nausea factor. Then extracting in methanol leads to golden yellow crystals (when evaped) that were very active and pleasant at 75 mg dose.
So my friend's friend did this wash/extraction tec but since he doen't have access to cheap methanol he used Everclear (ethanol w/ a few % water) and then ran out of that and finished a couple of pulls w/ vodka (ethanol + water). Now he has a slightly sticky tar that is more of a dark reddish goldish brownish color. Approx 8 gm seeds yielded 1150 mg tar. Question is, is the difference in his color and texture due to differences in what is extracted by ethanol vs methanol? If so, anyone hazard a guess if he got more or less goods? More or less bads? Supposedly the Naptha removes the yucks? Anybody got any ideas? He asked me to post this to the forum as he is computerless and anonymous. But he thanks you in advance...
I seem to recall reading in another forum, that naphta tek. The theory behind it (not scientifically proven that I know) is that the naphta wash with the blended seeds gets some of the nasties that are soluable in that solvent, but that the ones it doesn't pull out are soluable in water. So if thats the case, if you used a lower proof vodka to finish your extract, the water that was in it might have grabbed some nasties on the way.
I believe (or rather suspect as I've never tried it) 99% isopropal alchohol (found in drug stores.) would work great and is cheap, but you'd have to make damn sure it completely evaporates. Pluss the added pain that LSA's degrade more rapidly once extracted and exposed to air. i.e. evaporated.
I'b bet your friends best bet would be to (where legal) to in the future use the highest proof (everclear or better) alchohol they can get, preform only two washes, two days apiece, in the fridge, with aproximately only 8 x as much alchohol as there quantity of seed and not dry it out, but keap it in it as a tincture(minus the seeds)......... should last longer.
The tinxcture might even possibly be soluable through the mucosa of the mouth from an erowid report bushpig pointed out in a thread above.
But anywhoo, as to your question, I would also express caution to anybody in ingesting too much lsa extract. Something about limbs turning blue or some such. So tell them to use caution. I think if they search around erowid they'd find I believe the medium sized dose of LSA is 50mills. Which when translated means try about half that amount first.
......... but what the hell do I know.
Quote from: "Avery L. Breath"I think if they search around erowid they'd find I believe the medium sized dose of LSA is 50mills.
Thank you. Great info. Assuming you mean 50 mills of the tinct.?
Where does one buy this 99% ipa? I've never seen it any stronger than 91% around here.
My local drug store sells it. I believe farming related stores do. (just double checked the bottle I have here and it's 99%)
Also, what is it........ isoheat for your car is 99 percent I believe...... but don't quote me on that one.
[quote="DrStrangeThank you. Great info. Assuming you mean 50 mills of the tinct.?[/quote]
No, I don't mean that....... I was refferencing erowid, (which you'd want to double check to verify I am not giving out eronious info) and I believe they were specifically talking about a pure lsa extract, not a homemade tincture jobber.
I wouldn't neccisarily reccomend any specific dossage actually. Other than none at all due to legallity of the substance.
One must do all the research they can. And reading all the information on erowid in your specific vault of interest is a good start.
I've checked cvs, wallmart and a couple others. None have it, just 70% and 91%. Is isoheat sold in an auto supply place? I'm not sure that would be very pure.
Sounds like IPA better than everclear if 99% is available as the Everclear is only about 95% I think and pretty expensive. Though the idea of ticncture storage in the freezer is interesting (ethanol only!)
Quote from: "Stonehenge"Where does one buy this 99% ipa? I've never seen it any stronger than 91% around here.
If you live in the states, the Safeway chain of grocery stores carries it, but I agree with Avery: high-test everclear is the way to go.
Simple LSA perperation (where permissible by law).1) Take your starting material and grind in a top-loading coffee grinder. You don't need/want to powder it, but you want to seeds broken up well.
2) Soak the seeds for a day or two in naphtha.
3) Drain and discard the naphtha. Dry the seed mush.
4) Soak the now-dry seed mush in 190 proof ethanol for a day or two. Shake occasionally, and decant when done.
5) Optional: depending upon how much ethanol you used, you may want to evaporate a little, down to, say, 1 or 2ml per HBWR seed.
Important: LSA may be fragile, so you'll want to keep it out of sunlight as you soak and work with it.
Concerning vasoconstriction: it is
definately a vasoconstrictor: painful leg cramps and numb extremities may be experienced. Keep in mind that gangrene is a common sympton of ergotism.
My friend being a vomit paranoid type (having plenty harsh aya experiences) decided to try a further experiment. He is going to get some 99% IPA as it is much cheaper than Everclear, and redisolve his tary balls in it oops I meant ball what was I thinking. Then let it stand for a couple days and c-a-r-e-f-u-l-l-y decant the clear part, assuming the water soluable only parts will settle. Then evap that to bone dry and see what's left. He has over a gram of tar at this point so if he gets even 25% of that he's got enough for several titrated experiments on his housepets.
how can that be illegal? I guess I'll stop. anyway if you can't enjoy yourself with a simple crush water/soak you start to run the risk of a really unenjoyable time. I would suggest something like vpirate said of a combination with another central american favorite. I would imagine that the otherwoldlyness of the mushrooms is braught more into an earthly focus by the woodrose. a very quietly enlightened mode of consiousness I suspect.
also I think the above tek should mention that LSA is not just light sensitive but also heat sensitive and since it seems to involve some evaporation, one would be cautioned against using anything more than a fan if they wanted to maintain something like the original potency.
experiment update: my friend took his tar ball from the Everclear/vodka extract and triple extracted from that w/ 99% IPA from the local Safeway. Got brown oil! Been over 10 days and never dried out! I tend to trust the info he got from "Delysid" at ayahuasca.com so maybe something about LSA really needs methanol for a good extraction??? The IPA sure was a bust.
Could always just run a standard old cold water steep and filter extraction with HBWR seeds and some cool spring water and avoid the uncertaintly of lingering toxic alcohols and solvents.
Oh, and there's nothing legal about doing that. LSA is scheduled, extracting and using could certainly be grounds for a criminal trouble, selling would be beyond stupid and mean as most don't react well with LSA.
Greetings,
Once years ago a spirit told me of his method of using hbwr seeds. The spirit would take great care in removing all the hairs on the outside of the seed using sand paper. Then it would grind them up fairly well. Then it would put them in a shot glass with some lemon juice and water letting steep in the refrigerator over night. The next day the spirit would filter the seed mush outta the juice and take it in one shot. The spirit would have extreme visions and euphoria with minimal stomach upset and any that came would be soothed with astral cannabis. Although he would sometimes laugh so hard that his abdominal muscles would ache for days later. Sometimes his legs would feel tight and cramp but overall he enjoyed his experiences. Haven't heard from the spirit in years but I know he's out there somewhere.
Peace
OBODAOUR
For the sake of hypothetical conjecture:
I am curious why Morning-glories have been discounted here.
I have read of some very visual and pleasant experiences with them using traditional methods, experiences that cannot be replicated with extracted chemicals.
Sometimes the effects of an entheogen defy its chemical constituents, and cannot be explained by convention, though there must be some explanation.
In reading it seems that around 300 I. violacea seeds can give visual and pleasant experiences when ground to a fine flour and soaked briefly (45min) in cold slightly acidic water. Then the water is ingested, and the solids of the seeds themselves are thrown away. Traditional healers never ingested the seeds themselves, only infusions of the ground material.
From what I have read Ipomoea species should not be discounted unless you are talking about eating the seeds or attempting to isolate the active chemicals and then ingesting them. Then you will get the non-visual and rather undesirable LSA effects reported in the literature for seed and LSA ingestion. Effects that are hardly comparable at all to those of LSD, unlike those elicited by the water method.
Perhaps there is some reaction in the water that modifies the alkaloids involved into some more active form?
Long time Obadaour:::: Welcome home-------- :shock: ------- sal
for any preps involving water, only use chlorine free distilled water, chlorine/chloride will destry many actives, esp lsa's.
on the mucosal absorption, alchohol will diffuse across any sell membrane as it is lipid soluble, i am unsure if it will carry the lsa across w/ it tho, but do think it will possibly create a tendency for the lsa to be in molecular form rather than ionic form (i.e in an acidic solution) and thus making absorption across the mucosa possible..
heres a novel idea, drink down an extract/infusion and chase it with a carbonated beverage, the CO2 in the drink will cause your stomach to empty into the intestines, where all the real absobtion takes place, more frequently than without, fatty foods have the opposite effect, causing less frequent emptying..
Nice advice with the CO2! A ginger ale or ginger beer might be a good choice there.
I don't think LSA's do what the water preparations do .
I agree that MG seeds seem to have been given the short end of the LSA prep regimen... Agreed also that many report good effect without the cramp/nausea that woodrose brings many....... Ah, so many chromosones / so many variables :wink: ------------- sal
Heya Sal,
Thanks for the warm welcome back! Its great to have a community like this! Hope all is well!
Peace & Blessings
OBODAOUR
--------- :lol: 8) no problemo----------- sal
I haven't tried morning glory. Is it public understanding that it is more visual compared to HBR?
Also I used to like HBR. I didnt mind the nausea that much. It did pass rather fast. Although after some trips my brain learned to regognice the smell of it and that gives me now an even more intensive nausea compared to the real thing, although passing faster. Acctually I get a slight nausea even from thinking about it. And it have been maybe 2 years since I last tried it :?
But I do have quite a lot of high quality seeds at home and was thinking about trying some extraction. Which should be most close to the "real" method? And which nausea could I expect from that? And will it have that terrible HBR-seed smell and taste :roll:
Hypothetically speaking using cold slightly acidified distilled water (a bit of lime juice) to soak freshly and finely ground flour of the MG seeds for about an hour and then drained and the seed mash discarded and the solution ingested would be very similar to the traditional method.
Do that include traditional use of HBR also?
In many years of ethnobotanical study I have never come across traditional use of woodrose species as an entheogen. The plant has been used in india for some medicinal purposes.
Woodrose species and Ipomoea violacea contain somewhat different LSA alkaloids. However all of the nicer reports I am reading with woodrose species seem to involve water. What I have read leads me to believe that the morninglory seeds are a better choice when prepared properly without ingesting seed material. I have read much better reports involving them than I have involving woodrose, though when the seeds are ingested or the LSA's are extracted I have read adverse and or non-ideal reports for both.
alright... i just ran across this thread.... and theres a few things i want to talk about.....
first off.... i highly recommend AGAINST USING NAPTHA... or coalmans lighter fluid...... or ISOHEAT sold at common stores.....
its like the subject of denatured alcohol..... ive heard people recommend it as well......
denatured means that theres added chemicals to render the product non-consumable...... yeah... the bottle says all over it "nuerotoxic poison" and shit like that...
so... that leads to ISOHEAT... and NAPTHA......
both are NONCONSUMABLES.....
and any extractions done with these products will leave a nasty residue.... beyond the sensitivities of our instruments.....
what would one use to extract good stuff from your favorite herbs.... use ethanol (everclear)
so what.... 5 percent water is really really low.....
and the water just picks up tannins and such.....
yeah.... if one would boil pearly gate MG's..... and when they start to float..... try to peel em...... once they are barely soft enough to peel..... use the tips of your thumbs and split it apart..... its a white seed.... and there will be a black brain in the middle.....
use fingernails to take out the small amount of black.... and put aside....
do this with 500 seeds.....
saving the black shit...
well... yes... heat does destroy... or denature.... lsa....
but hey.... eating em as you peel em is always a great patience meditation....
and when your stomach starts to hurt...... thats probably enough...
yup...... i started out with mg a long time ago..... i did it few a few months.... off and on.....
it was by far my favorite..... more so than lsd even.....in some ways atleast...
i found the mg's more intense.... not too much visuals.... unless you consider the minds eye......
i had just started into reading tai chi and eastern philosophy.... and the mg's blew my mind.....men and women... yin and yang....
and then i walked into a room where my friends were watching the simpsons..... and i cried lauphing so hard cuase it was a fucking great episode... and the back of my neck was a ball of energy.... intense...
yup......hbwr was much more mellow..... i would go into a sleep... and then curl inward into fedal position.... for 15 minutes.... and then outstrectch for 15 .... back and forth.... the whole time images of succulents and cacti flashed through my head (i was getting very interested in cacti at the time)
yup..... grind em up..... soak in everclear.....strain as much shit as possible out.... and then evaporate the alcohol.... till its as dark or potent as you like...
make shure to do a shitload at once.... so that youll have a reserve to "nibble" out of .... instead of doing all the work of an extraction and getting a small amount and take half and its not enough.....
of course... you might want to experiment first just to make shure your product is active...
peace yall
No visuals though?
Quote from: "EA-1306"In many years of ethnobotanical study I have never come across traditional use of woodrose species as an entheogen. The plant has been used in india for some medicinal purposes.
Woodrose species and Ipomoea violacea contain somewhat different LSA alkaloids. However all of the nicer reports I am reading with woodrose species seem to involve water. What I have read leads me to believe that the morninglory seeds are a better choice when prepared properly without ingesting seed material. I have read much better reports involving them than I have involving woodrose, though when the seeds are ingested or the LSA's are extracted I have read adverse and or non-ideal reports for both.
Thats very interresting. Looking at the use in South America it, without anytime acctualy tried to make a tabulation of different plants, that the use could be moved in 3 groups:
1) Cactii.
2) Plants that contain harmalin together with something else active.
3) Plants combined with something with harmaline.
A lot of seeds contain harmaline. I wonder if Morning Glory could have some harmaline? HBR together with syrian rue gets more visual. It will even get "painfull" visual with large doses.
Rivea corymbosa we have traditional use of? Isnt that the old Ololiuqui?
Commenting on my rather informal statement and leaving out 1). We would have the following example.
2) Yoppi, tobacco.
3) Tropane containing plants, different kind of Ayahuasca brews.
Interesting.
I do not think that the ipomoea seeds contain Harmaline or harmine, I suspect the activity from the water preperation is due to some unexplained chemical changes or molecular contortions. The chemistry of the MG seeds is different than the woodrose seeds.
I wonder about the woodrose harmaline/harmine combination. I suspect that this is unique to harmalkaloids as that several studies suggest it cannot be due to the MAOI effects. This also leads me to suggest another number of your list
4) Plants that contain harmaline/harmine/harmalkaloids. These are use alone as visionary substances, and the effects are reputed to be quite profound.
Also we have yopo snuffs, though these contain some harmalkaloids their effocacy seems due more to their tryptamine content.
In the amazon some shamans combine caapi and cacti. Studies suggest that MAOI makes tryptamines last longer in the system, but do not actually potentiate them (SSRI's potentiate tryptamines). However some evidence suggests that MAOI does potentiate phenylethylamines.
Check out this PDF, the section on Morning glory seeds is very interesting.
http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/v ... 275was.pdf (http://www.maps.org/psychedelicreview/v1n3/013275was.pdf)
Probably I should take the time to make a better list. It could be quite interresting. Acctually we could put your 4) into the one with MAOI and change MAOI to harmaline since it allways seems to me harmaline. Harmaline is quite discreet but active.
I do not beliave that SSRI will potentiate tryptamines if you have used them regular. SSRI do not really increase the amount of serotonine but level it out. I think that his probably means that you will need a bigger amount of tryptamines to be affected. Novel use SSRI should however potentiate tryptamines.
I found some information on the Erowid supporting the notion of SSRI decreasing tryptamines. Altough I think they are wrong to. Novel use of SSRI should increase the effect while regular use should decrease it. Acctually I think that fresh SSRI like escitalopram will decrease them more compared to Prozac.
oh yeah..... i have also crushed up three hbwr seeds.... and swallowed spit.... excluding seed material....
this method does work fine..... im shure theres a million variations as well
I found this:
"
Chemical structure of ergine
Ergine, also known as d-lysergic acid amide, LSA, and LA-111, is an alkaloid of the ergoline family that occurs in various species of vines of the Convolvulaceae and some species of fungi. As the dominant alkaloid in the hallucinogenic seeds of Rivea corymbosa (ololiuhqui), Argyreia nervosa (Hawaiian baby woodrose) and Ipomoea violacea (tlitliltzin), it is often stated that ergine and/or isoergine (its epimer) is responsible for the hallucinogenic activity. In fact, the effects of synthetic ergine and isoergine are not particularly hallucinogenic, see Mixing the Kykeon below for a summary of human trials, and Chapter 17 and entry #26 of TiHKAL for further discussion. Whether or not these compounds account for the hallucinogenic effects of the seeds remains unclear. Ergine is a DEA schedule III drug in the United States."
At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergine)
Suggesting the same thing, that LSA isnt that psycedelic. I never tried to extract it so I shouldnt comment. Also a lot of people tend to get good sessions with "LSA-extractions" but the extraction method will just about remove anything from the seeds so that doesnt say especially much.
I had however once the chance to try some pure LSA. Didnt get the "HBR" feeling from that. Rather boring. At the time I silent blamed that on the chemist. Maybe time to reconsider?
This is question is acctually quite interresting. Its sad that the area isnt legal and social acceptable so we could get some hard cash to investigate it, instead of everyone spending cash on either hard drugs or police.
there are several reports in Albert Hoffman's book "LSD: My Problem Child" of LA-111 use. in the book it was stated to be psychoactive at doses 10 to 20 times that of LSD..it was said to often produce a state of psychic emptiness, sedation, anxiety or well-being, and auditory and sensory enhancement, but was considered less hallucinogenic than LSD, and one could even fall asleep on it.
of course, the entire seed will produce different effects than individual compounds, but from my usage of mg seeds i can attest that his description of LA-111 corresponds to my experiences with the seeds, although the seeds additionally had much stomach discomfort and nausea. But i've never had the opportunity to sample pure LA-111!
LA-111 and LSD can both be produced from the ergot-alkaloid ergobasine, which is also present in mg seeds. i don't know if ergobasine itself was ever ingested by Albert Hoffman or anyone else in the pure state. They no doubt tried other ergot alkaloids on themselves, but i can't remember if it says in the book.
RedDragon
Did those experiences involve eating seed material or a more traditional water based extraction?
It sounds like eating seed material or solvent extraction. I have read of much more LSD like effects with the more traditional preparation methods.
a FOAF has eaten mg seeds raw a dozen or so times, and did the water extraction a few times. In my experience nausea is not a constant for either method, but can appear in both. And with both methods he also found the experience could ressemble LSD...not only with the water extraction.
I remember on one occasion, he ingested ~150 heavenly blue seeds by chewing and swallowing. There was no nausea and the experience was very much like LSD although of course the peak only lasted 2-3 hours, the entire experience maybe 6 hours. On a few other occasions i can definitely remember that he chewed and swallowed, there was no nausea and there was no feeling of emptiness as described by Hoffman.
Interestingly i remember that in his earlier experiments, he did it several times with an experience similar to Hoffman, with apathy and sedation and a heavy feeling...plus the nausea. It's interesting that to my memory these experiences dissapeared in the later years of use. Also note, in none of the aforementioned trips did he use seeds he'd grown himself, it was always from massive commercial vendors, like Mackenzie Seeds, etc.
This leads to several possibilities. Maybe different batchs of the seeds were grown under different conditions, with different fertilizers, or with residual pesticides on them. Another possibility is that like some other drugs, maybe the "energetic matrix" of a person can be the determinant between a good and bad trip. This would mean that even within a single batch of seeds, someone might go through a whole period of getting ill, and then another period without getting ill...to my recollection this is what my friend said happened to him. substances such as foxy, mushrooms, ayahuasca, mescaline or the 2c- family come to mind as having variable nausea depending on emotional state of the person. Pretty much the whole gang of psychedelics! :lol: And of course there's the most immediate reason of nausea from MG seeds, the TASTE!
I remember one time where my friend got very nauseous and puked from a water extraction, before he had even finished drinking it. This was SOLELY due to the taste. This was followed by a very unpleasant experience lying in bed for 3 or so hours in a hazy state.
Again in the Hoffman reports, there was no talk of nausea or vomiting, so we might come to the conclusion that the actual nausea in many Convulvalaceae lysergoid sessions is an ENTIRELY different cause of "unpleasant experience" than the one in Hoffman's experience (the apathy, etc). I clarify this only because the actual nauseous experience on MG seeds usually involves an significant increase in body temperature and similar feeling of sedation and fatigue, and often apathy.
All of this just makes me think even more that the difference between good and bad psychic effects with these seeds is a matter of "set", as much as of method of preparation or nauseous component.
So, as you can see, from my point of view, it's not as simple as method of ingestion, although the water extraction is definitely easier on the stomach and in general has less chance of nausea and therefore an unpleasant trip, which is why i would always recommend the cold water brew... :)
also NOTE: my friend later on actually GREW the vines himself, of the Heavenly Blue variety, and found the seeds to be MUCH more potent than the store-bought ones. He said that 25-30 of these seeds was equivalent to ~70-80 of the store-bought ones, BUT in ADDITION, he discovered that could get a decent trip going without the nausea. Maybe this is because the seeds' LSA content deteriorates quicker than some other nauseants in it (chanoclavine??), meaning that with store-bought seeds you have to ingest more of the OTHER component to get a decent trip, thereby increasing nausea.
You dont think it is some cyano-compound?
G2Herman: My bet is that just as with ayahuasca or phenethylamines, it is JUST AS MUCH mindset/emotional-physical vibratory state as it is any nauseating compounds, if not more so the former...
What would help us further with this would be to take a real solid look at the body of PURE LA-111 reports, and see if nausea is a significant factor in them...if it is, then you have your answer..
and by the way, i don't know if chanoclavine is a cyano-compound...i remember reading that it was an lysergoid/ergoloid compound, but i may be wrong...i'll try to get a link when the valerian isn't kicking in :) goodnight!