Ok there are these 2 vendors that are using videos of people tripping in salvia as a marketing gimmick.
heres the topic on shroomery.org:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla ... ost4880108 (http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4880108&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=a57c49a61c6a65980a42d866e9004285#Post4880108)
and for those of you who arent regged at shroomery.org, here is the email dialog ive had with the proprietor of this site: http://www.moondreams.net/index.php?mai ... ia_library (http://www.moondreams.net/index.php?main_page=media_library) who as it turns out claims to be the chick in the video.
heres the emails:
me:
QuoteI would like to express my utter contrmpt with your attempts at marketing
Salvia divinorum as a 'party drug'. the movies are highly deceptive and have
nothing of content to offer some1 who is truely interested in lerning more
about S. divinorum.
also u should understand that the only people who will take these videos on
a positive note are the people who were interested to start with.
anyone not familiar with altered conciousness will take nothing but negative
impressions from them and this short term gain strategy is contributing to
the efforts of the uninformed to outlaw this and other substances.
oh and btw, could you guys try to find people who dont look and act like
total wretched junkies for these clips???
seeing how you treat the product is a dead giveaway to the fact that you
have contempt for your own customers.
in short, your showing all the worst signs of both shady drugdealers and the
gung ho drug war agencies, knock it off!
her:
QuoteShut the fuck up, ok? If you weren't interested in drugs yourself you
wouldn't even be on my website. I'm really sick of you salvia freaks who
are so worried about your precious secret being found out and taken away
from you. I actually have something to lose if it becomes illegal and I
don't give a shit because I'm not so into drugs that I have to take the time
to write to people begging them to stop making a big deal out of it. Salvia
and what it does have been around a lot longer than we have, and if it's
going to be made illegal, then it certainly won't be because of us. Your
fucked up government will take anything and everything away from you
eventually, so just enjoy it while you can and vote green party if you want
to keep your damn rights. Also, if you don't want to look like a loser
yourself, try using proper spelling.
Very sincerely,
Sharry
me again:
Quoteyes that certainly sounds like someone who is moraly at peace with his
actions...
seriously, your trying to sell salvia as something it's not and that damages
everyone.
your creating demand where it should not exist and you misrepresentation of
salvia
is quite capable of resulting in serious emotional trauma when used by
someone who
has not been exposed to some factual information.
im not worried about salvia being taken away from me, i never even took it
myself.
im worried about your greedy stumbling in the dark resulting in yet another
layer of contempt
between sober and non sober people, you are not just greedy, your holding
back the evolution of mankind.
your need to point out spelling errors comes from an inability to insult me
based on content
and utterly reveals your contempt for your own customers.
im pointing that oout a 2nd time because it seems to be somewhat
inconsistant with what
your are supposed to be...
why are you doing this realy?
her again, using the old trick of awsnering a random obvious question, as opposed to the one i actualy asked:
Quote>yes that certainly sounds like someone who is moraly at peace with >his actions...
that is a call that makes no sense concerning my reply to you.
seriously, your trying to sell salvia as something it's not and that damages
everyone.
>your creating demand where it should not exist and you >misrepresentation of salvia is quite capable of resulting in serious >emotional trauma when used by someone who has not been exposed to >some factual information.
First, how would you know if you’ve never tried it? Second, I encourage everyone to do their homework before they try it, and most people who want to try it have done their homework because they don’t want to get ripped off.
>im not worried about salvia being taken away from me, i never even >took it myself.
>im worried about your greedy stumbling in the dark resulting in yet >another layer of contempt between sober and non sober people, you >are not just greedy, your holding back the evolution of mankind.
How does the evolution of mankind fit in to this subject?
>your need to point out spelling errors comes from an inability to >insult me based on content and utterly reveals your contempt for >your own customers.
My need to point out your spelling errors comes from the disappointment that I find myself feeling every day that I learn that children are not only being deprived of a proper education, but even as they become adults, they still don’t care about their need to learn. Also, you can’t knowingly say that I have contempt for my customers because you obviously aren’t one of them or you would know that to be untrue. I am grateful to every one of my customers, and I believe most of them to be some of the nicest people there are. We exchange emails throughout our transactions, and I even send daily jokes to people who are anxiously waiting for their packages and are nervous about online business. We also stay in touch with them through the forum on many topics that have nothing to do with the website itself.
If you bothered to check out the website, you would notice that we do a lot more than sell salvia and pipes. We’re active in our community, support healthy living and earth friendly behavior. We’ve had numerous art shows, have registered people to vote in our shop, and even had a voting party for the people who actually got out and voted last term. We do all of this for nothing. NOTHING. On our vacation last week for our fourth year anniversary, Jim and I took some time to do short videos and interviews with people along the way concerning factory farming, and small communities that have been run over by Walmart. Unless you are a republican, then you should be able to appreciate all of this.
I know I don’t need to point all of this out to you, but if you had taken the time to actually look at our whole website and get to know us, then you wouldn’t have written to bitch at me in the first place.
>im pointing that oout a 2nd time because it seems to be somewhat
>inconsistant with what your are supposed to be...
>why are you doing this realy?
In the beginning I was doing it because I thought it was an interesting experience that should be explored. Salvia taps into a part of the brain that you don’t even realize could exist, and it poses a lot of questions. Now, I do it mostly because I do a lot of animal rescues, and it helps to pay the bills.
Honestly, I don’t have a lot of time to write back and forth, so please forgive me if you write again and I send back a much shorter letter.
and heres me acting a fool:
Quoteuknow, i think u have all the time in the world, seeing as your not truely a vendor.
tell me, how is it that another site had been using the same videos as a marketing tool,
using the same catchy catchphrases to completely misrepresent something u dont understand?
where do these videos come from exactly?
and exactly what is the problem with your online identity?
some of it seems to be missing...
as for spelling errors, they say nothing aboutany level of edjucation
or intelligence, they simply reveal my lack of patience with you.
also u should have figured out by now that english is not my native language,
so if u wanna keep dissing me ull have to prove u know more then the utter most simple one
on the planet.
oh and spellcheck does nothing to uphold the illusion of intelligence on your part.
dont think i dont know its there, i just dont give a damn and neither should you.
you dwell on spelling errors because it makes u feel superior, a need that would not have to be filled
were u not at some level afraid of being inferior.
as for evolution, what you are doing does nothing but fincrease the wedge between people on the various sides of the drug argument, and that is counter productive to the social evolution process.
but the u already knew that didnt u?
u say u have little time, but u already gave me more then u should have, why?
what kind of vendor acts like you do?
you are not what u apear to be, so what are you?
why are you doing this realy?
her again taking the high road:
QuoteI gave you more time than I should have because I thought for a half a second that you might be interested in learning that I am a person and not just someone doing something that pisses you off.
The other site that has those videos bought them from me because that is actually my husband and I doing those experiments. We did them because we had numerous questions from customers concerning salvia, so we decided to try it and give them an account of our first experience.
I did not figure out that English is not your native language because you use it very well, but I would think that you’d be able to spell “you†properly instead of using a “u†like a 12 year old. Using spell check is sometimes helpful to everyone, including myself, and it takes less than 30 seconds.
I don’t believe that I am superior to anyone…I simply have a problem with laziness. It takes minimal effort to spell correctly and use spell check for more difficult words…especially if you are trying to write an intelligent sounding letter, which is what I said to you the first time (basically).
It sounds to me as if you just want to continue letting off steam on me for anything random that you can hold on to because your arguments have become weak, and you’re moving off of the initial subject and onto more personal defenses. You can continue to be angry at me for whatever reasons you like. Because I’ve shared some of my personal life with you, and tried to be somewhat reasonable, and you still want to continue fighting, I can only assume that you are simply a closed minded person who will always hold strong to only one side of an argument. This will only hurt you in disagreements with people who you actually care for. This is not the voice of someone who thinks that she is superior; it is the voice of experience.
and me acting a fool who is trying to sound smart:
Quoteahh i see, i guess i must have insulted you a bit there...
look, you guys look like hippies, you house looks more
like an amsterdam coffeeshop then an amsterdam coffeeshop.
dont u understand what kind of associations this is going to provoke in
the eyes of those who have only drug war propaganda to base their opinions on?
dont u understand that looking at a person tripping is scary as hell to someone who has never done it?
dont u see that u are creating an image for salvia that is not only false, but potentialy damaging?
are young curious people to believe this is about having a good time?
if you want to enlighten people u have to show more then one side of the story too, dont u think
a cleancut buisnessman having a bad trip is something we should also be aware of?
dont u see any onjection to this?
do you truly think 'drugs' are just about having fun?
if so i humbely beg you to do a google on a guy named Terrence McKenna
and listen to him talk of dmt and psilocybine and tell me that nothing is lost if we decide
to destroy this part of nature.
let me quote everyones favorite stand up comedian, Bill Hicks:
"...its not a war on drugs, its a war on personal freedom, please keep that in mind at all times..."
if you share my concern please post in the relevant forums and email the relevant websites in your favorites to alert them to this situation.
Seems kinda petty mate. They're going out of business as it is. I take it you're salvialover. Left a post for the heck of it.
Rife
no i am not a salvia smoker.
and if u dont see a problem here then im afraid you
are part of the problem and not wlecome in any effort to
make this work to our advantage.
for those of you with enuff living braincells to understand
that this is serious, please join the discussion on the shroomery.
as for the rest of you, im not interested in your opinions.
my, my...just the sort of friendly invitation we seek here.
look im not inviting any1, i feel strongly about this and i want to spread the word, that it.
ive alerted this forum to the situation, whoever gives a damn is welcome
to do whatever they think is apropriate.
seriously, if u guys dont see the problem here, your on the wrong forum,
but thats your problem.
that kind of mindless consumer attitude will not help us in any way, so feel free to go fuck yourself if u think im just a salvia smoker worried about loosing his weed.
as the host is does he treat his patrons.
if u give a damn about any1 but yourself then u will understand why i, who have never smoked salvia, would care about this.
I read your entries about a half hour ago Vertigo. At first I had no desire to post a reply, but now, on second thought, here goes.... Lemme get this straight: You don't even smoke Salvia and yet you feel compelled to take a vendor to task for what you view as inappropriate...? You say that you don't care to hear others opinions if they are in opposition to your own...? Yeah well, I'll just go on and clue you in a bit pal.... The way I see it, you just dont have the standing around here to go off on some pontification from on high! ! Couple that with the fact that you have been fairly rude in your post. So, lemme ask you point blank.. Who the fuck do you see yourself as being? You come to this forum fairly recently and then you lay your edict down from on high and expect people to just jump, to fall into lockstep behind your pronouncement :roll: --- Get real! ! ... You just might want to consider a more reasoned and accomodating approach, ya know? If you have a point you wish others to consider, then fine, but to dismiss anyone with a dissenting viewpoint is both sorrowful and lame...... I've been around this forum for years and I'l just go on and tell you point blank my man: Most people here are more accomodating of a true civil discourse than some raving, talking head, demanding that their viewpoint is the end all and be all of enlightenment.......... Personally I do not know you (from your limited postings) well, but your rudeness has somehow sparked this response, so with that, I say to you sir: Go Fuck Yourself------- sal
im not important in this whatsoever.
im simply alerting people to a situation i think believe to be potentialy
damaging to the community as a whole, and no im not alone in this.
if any1 wants to join the conversation, its taking place at the shroomery topic posted above.
if u dont share my concerns, fine, but im not here to cater to your ego
so fuck you and fuck my rudeness, i ran out of weed and i dont have the patience for PC bullshit right now.
im pissed off, others are pissed off, if it pisses u off too join the convo, if not, then dont.
ok ive noticed there has been a change with the vendor i linked to, but that is the one responsible for the videos.
so now i see how u would think me strange.
this one salviasupply is right now a better example of the problem.
Quote7 grams of amanita free with every order
QuoteAtropa belladonna is a perennial branching herb growing to 5 feet tall, with 8 inch long ovate leaves. The leaves in first-year Atropa belladonna plants are larger than those of older plants. The flowers are bell-shaped, blue-purple or dull red, followed by a shiny, black or purple 0.5 inch berry.Native of Europe and Asia.
In earlier times in Italy, extracts of belladonna were used to dialate their eyes for cosmetic purposes; such use explains the origin of the common name (Italian, "beautiful woman"). Belladonna was also an important ingredient in Witches brew during the Middle ages, often being equated with aggressive female sexuality. A flying ointment salve was made from this plant along with others, and rubbed on the bodies of women to experience erotic sensations and hallucinations. Experiments have shown that the subjective sensation of flight was a common theme with subjects under the influence of solanaceous compounds, not unlike what was reportedly experienced by witches.
Out of Stock, Please Check Back Soon
Mate, people can do whatever they want with plants, whether the po pohs are against it or not. To order any entheogenic plant with previous study would be the consumer's fault. Why should the company being ordered from be responsible for your neglect of common sense? Maybe if it was titled "Super Secret Hallucinogen Smoke Blend 99999x Extract" maybe then.
I believe you are doing more than merely alerting the general public. You have shown disregaurd of other's opinions.
All in all, it's a petty fight. I'm guessing you are an adolescent. If you say "utter contempt" one more time, I'm gonna suggest this be closed :P
Now here is my favorite smiley :oops: ,
Rife
If people would simply buy and grow the plants themselves and not buy extracts from vendors, then this stuff wouldn't be an issue.
The people I enjoy most here seem to have this attitude.
Aye Aye, Winder! enough with the prepared rubbish. Would you buy Pedro chips?
Rife
Definitely would not purchase prepared Pedro chips.
I am fully aware that my living condition is not that of most of the forum members. (The fact that I am homeless and pretty much an itinerant wanderer) Allow me to say that I would love the luxury and satisfaction of an entheo-garden that I myself had grown. Be that as it may, I do not see the purchasing of entheos as somehow in and of itself an ignoble thing... After all peeps, senorsals' gotta score Nirvana somehow eh???? :wink: ---------- sal
She is right actually. If you aren't going to write proper sentences and use proper spelling then nobody is going to take you seriously. You tried to e-mail someone and act morally superior and attempt to come off as smart yet your e-mails look like crap and you acted childish. It is not the way to get your point across with a vendor and it is not going to get your point across here.
Ah, senorsal, you make a point. Perhaps you could find local grown or such? Maybe a local heady sells some. Or some of the more admirable vendors.
How do you go online?
Rife
This place is great.....such livelie intellcectks.....oops
you guys prolly think salvia IS a party drug dont you?
you guys agree with these vendors that amanita is something that should be given away for free?????!!!!!!!!!!
with no warning whatsoever????????
DO U ACTUALY THINK IT IS EXCUSABLE TO SELL DATURA AND BELLADONNA WITHOUT MENTIONING THEY ARE DEADLY??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
are you realy so stupid as not to realise what this trend could do to the
whole damn community?
its bad enuff to see that u dont give a damn about irresponsible vendors
potentialy getting people killed, but dammit this is not about salvia, if they manage to outlaw this one plant based on the chemicals inside it will open the doors legaly to do the same with everything else!
honestly, you are the most selfish people ive ever seen in my life!
dude, do some reading here. You got us twisted. Better yet, go away.
no i think i understasnd you pricks just fine.
you'd rather sit here feeling good about yourself by insulting me
then actualy spend a second or 2 looking at the subject matter...
take a look at the god damn topic i linked and realise that im representing about 600 shroomerites here.
i know im not doing a good job, thats why im persistant.
im not leaving untill you idiots get over yourselves, get over me, and take notice of the situation.
i got something to say and i aint leaving untill im satisfied that you have herd it.
want me to leave? say something that indicates u understand what im trying to say. instead of useless pintless bitching about my conversational skills.
your acting like a bunch of god damn politicians in an election year!
How're things Rife? Yep, I have considered the local shoppe angle but Jeez, have you seen the mark-up those lil emporiums are laying on the peeps? :shock: --- Example... Last summer in a shoppe in Daytona Fl, I came across Sally being offered for $6 a gram for plain leaf and $19.95 per gram of 5X! ! I have always really dug the basic premise of the "home town headshoppe", but profiteering like that has me running for the net to score........... BTW, I acess my 'puters at the local library... Gotta thank 'ole Bill Gates fer that :wink: --------- sal
Vertigo, you just took the wrong aproach man and you let it spiral out of controll. You'd of probably won alot of people over to your side had you not gone all agro on folks and been ego-centric in your view. I for one appriciate your anger, it's a beautiful thing if expressed properly........ you just failed to do that.
A suggestion. Conversation is 90% listening.
Sal passes olive branch to both Vertigo and bro Avery :wink:
dude look at what you are saying.
your affirming my point AND doing the same god damn thing.
thanx captain obvious for pointing out what a retarded 4yo can
figure out on his own.
but the problem is not with me.
the problem is with a mentality that has people judging the merit
of any situation by the way it is presented.
tony blair has you right where he wants you you stupid cunts!
and yeah yeah, fry me and bann me for wearing my hear on my sleeve u fucking HYPOCHRITS!
all of you are to chickenshit to say what u realy think and feel
and now i have to conform to your bullshit PC sugercoating
brainless consumer crap just to get any1 to listen.
they say americans are stupid, but by god you people are fucking dead inside!
the most apropriate name for you guys is sadly also the most insulting,
but you realy are acting like a bunch of lawyers!
im sorry dudes, but there is no hope for the UK.
you guys are totaly fucked in the head, and before u scream bloody flawar, i have proof: your still talking about me, when everything ive said has been about ignoring me and looking at the issue at hand.
those who agree that the issue is more important then i am, join the 1000+ people (and counting) who care about the issue t this topic: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showfla ... n/0/page/0 (http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/4635814/an/0/page/0) at the www.shroomery.org (http://www.shroomery.org) forums.
the rest of you we can do without.
Ohhh look, somebody needs a hug. Vertigo, you crack me up.
dude we are all pretty much in agreement that selling 20x salvia as a party drug is a real bad idea.
The reason we are looking at you is cause you are so damn noisy.
vertigo--
first off, i'm sorry things got so out of hand here...the people here are good folks who appreciate plants and freedom as much as you...second, i can see you are really really upset and maybe scared by what is happening with something you love a great deal...it sucks and it won't go away...the world used to be scary cuz of US/USSR nuclear war fears, but man, it's scarier now because of nutjobs in charge of making laws...how did that happen? when did laws become the enemy? i don't know...
in any event, there is not a person here who is *your* enemy...we're here because we treasure freedom, nature, and the ancient values current lunatics in charge of the kingdom want to crush...have always wanted to crush...
my advice, since you have definitely made your point here, is to turn your energies to other ways to help...don't let the emotions or fear paralyze your obvious desires to do something...breathe some fresh air, listen to some good music, eat something that makes you feel good, have a long long sleep, and get back to it...and stick around SPF sometimes for other discussions...i hope you do, and feel more part of things here as time goes on...
peace,
raymond
ps--i looked at your own site, nice job :)
I cannot nor will not spend my time trying to chase down every fucked-up vendor there is. It will be fruitless and accomplish nothing but frustration for me.
Perhaps there is a lesson here in that the links to vendors need to be carefully monitored, as we have discussed before and that links to information sites (not vendors and not just discussion sites) need to be included.
Any problem with having a sticky thread with a link to the appropriate Erowid Vaults within each forum - such as to the Cactus Vault within the Desert, the Salvia Vault with the Salvia Plane, etc?
I use Salvia at my home on occassion. I don't use it as party drug or even go to parties for that matter. A few things...
1) We all understand what you are saying
2) You did not approach us or the vendor in a way that is going to get anything accomplished
3) Some people DO think of it as a party drug. And you know what? It can be. It isn't for me personally. That dosn't mean it isn't for other people. That is simple fact. Part of wanting the freedom to experiment in the ways you desire is to respect other people's right to use it in the way they want. You can't say that someone can't take some to a party and do what they want with it but you can use it. It just dosn't work that way. You are fighting a fruitless battle.
Yeah mate, not everything about Our Lady Salvia can be learned from the internet. Same with everything, for that matter. If you have a problem with this, merely go away, because right now you're more for amusement than anything else.
I see your point, and it's not bad. You jsut take things a bit too seriously and are way to closed minded.
Free yourself, mate,
Rife
Well well, this has certainly turned into quite a thread eh?? :lol: --- Vertigo man; notice how the people here are not saying they oppose your position??? Notice how you are given wide berth to define and put forth your opinions??? Methinks the real lesson here is that sometimes a heartfelt message can surely be muddled by the messenger... :wink: Relax bro; the vast majority of the folks here will bend over backward to accomodate and be inclusive... On the other hand; the vast majority of the folks here will circle the wagons and prepare for a battle when shown teeth that are bared for illogical reasons 8) ------ Stick around man, you might just find a place worth enjoying.................... sal
Any problem with having a sticky thread with a link to the appropriate Erowid Vaults within each forum - such as to the Cactus Vault within the Desert, the Salvia Vault with the Salvia Plane, etc?[/quote] Damn :shock: --- Once again Winder has come up with a great idea..... Sounds like a winner to me.... C'mon now, who's in favor????? sal
8)
...sorry, I jsut like the guy with the specs
Sounds good my motto is Just Say Know!
^Listen to Jupe^
... 8)
It's been quite a while since I have spent much time on this nook of the net, but I will definitely WHOLE-heartedly agree that there should be sticky links to appropriate Erowid vaults... I've noticed more and more recently that people I am acquainted with who show a lot of interest in entheogens have never even HEARD of Erowid, which is a shame, as it is most likely the BEST free resource for entheogen information...
in short, adding links would not only inform people of facts about the subjects we discuss, but also inform them of a great resource to FIND those facts in the future
I've also noticed repeatedly, that when I get into a conversation with someone who is an entheogen lover; they almost never have heard of Salvia :shock: Never have heard of Erowid :shock: ... Now, these people usually have acess to the net, also.... Makes me wonder just where in the world they get whatever info they come up with..... sal
I've been out of town and just got back. I made a sticky post. Any suggestions for links PM me. I locked the sticky so it doens't get out of control with spam, etc.
rediculous.
I bet you quid Vertigo. :)
Quote from: "senorsalvia"I've also noticed repeatedly, that when I get into a conversation with someone who is an entheogen lover; they almost never have heard of Salvia :shock: Never have heard of Erowid :shock: ... Now, these people usually have acess to the net, also.... Makes me wonder just where in the world they get whatever info they come up with..... sal
They probably just read those hippy trippy books of old. You know stuff like Carlos Castanada's stuff. Most of the older books either do not mension SD at all, or only give it a small paragraph or two.
HH,mmmm::::: seems a strange thing to ressurrect this topic ... :?: